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I blame the forum gremlins. figment private msg quote post Address this user
"Newton Rings not a problem!", says the only company that has them.

That made me laugh out loud!
Post 26 IP   flag post
I haven't aired it out. It's part of the provenance. Galen130 private msg quote post Address this user
I forgot to add this...


Post 27 IP   flag post
Captain Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
Don’t worry, the rings are an “optical illusion” 😂


Well, they are certainly “optical” and if we agree you see something that appears to be there (oil/something physical) but isn’t, they are also illusory.

Customer: “I see rainbows in the slab”.

Customer service: “ No, you don’t”.
Post 28 IP   flag post
Collector codychunn private msg quote post Address this user
You will if you eat these mushrooms
Post 29 IP   flag post
Why just the women? I like bears. Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
There is only one reason for this change.

Post 30 IP   flag post


Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belarak
@Wraith There's a real easy fix for this. It's called Quality Control.


IF there are people responsible for the specific task of verifying that labels are correct, perhaps something as simple as reading the label aloud while giving the book the theoretical look over would catch their attention. If it is their responsibility, it's logical to assume they read the label. So, read it out loud.

Of course, the way it's been, it's just as logical to assume no one at all has this specific task, unless it's just randomly picking one out of every hundred or so.
Post 31 IP   flag post
Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020. HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by consumetheliving
Newton rings should not be accepted on any level. CGC is the "gold" standard and demands a premium in value on the second-hand market. Yet they can't figure out a simple issue with their inner sleeve material???
you’d think. Even PGX can slab a book without the Newton rings. Maybe it’s luck of the draw, but I personally have seen more CGC slabs with newton ring than without and I pass on them immediately. I made the mistake of buying a gift-graded 9.4 that had Newton rings and hated it; it just looked like trash on top of the sour grapes of buyer’s remorse.
Post 32 IP   flag post
Collector PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/521998-cgc%E2%80%99s-official-mechanical-errors-returns-policy/#comments

I've had my fair share of complaints about CBCS over the years, but there's a reason I haven't submitted anything to CGC since I got into slabbing and chose CBCS 5 years ago. Thank you CBCS for working on your flaws this past year. Although many mind-blowing mistakes were made, I hope you've settled or are in the process of settling your liabilities. I look forward to the coming years where you set a high bar instead of trying to only be slightly better than a company that has extremely low standards.


While CGC passing the buck to consumers on newton rings no longer being considered mechanical errors, don’t be so quick with that praise to CBCS.

I just got an email today from CBCS indicating they are voiding out their Dealer program discounts next month- they have followed suit with CGC on this.

Unless you subbed 600+ books to CBCS last year, you’re SOL far as discounts are concerned.

From the email:
“ Please be aware that all previous dealer agreements and discounted pricing will expire on June 16th”




Now, onto CGC’s problems, or more accurately, the CGC submitter’s’ problems:


Minor newton rings are in fact natural light refractions but the more extreme Newton Rings are a byproduct of the tightness of CGC holders.

I’ve seen minor newton rings on pre 4/4/2016 generation CGC slabs, which had comparable design as CBCS slabs.

I can understand minor newton rings not qualifying for free reholders but not significant newton rings, which buyers would complain about or want discounts on.

Ever since the 4/4/2016 CGC holder redesign, newton rings have been a big problem. The only cases that I saw that were newton ring proof were the cases with the sliding inner wells, which were a half measure improvement to avoid 1/ severe newton rings 2/ staple pulling and 3/ inner well scratches.

They did fix those 3 issues but inner wells that are built to slide /move in the case, isn’t really a complete solution to those 3 issues.

Both CBCS and CHC need to understand that the 2020-2021 pandemic derived market speculation bubble has popped.

As such, there is no justification for dropping their (free) dealer discount programs along with price increase after price increase.



…..if the 2020-2021 bubble was still around now, than sure, charge submitters more across the board.

But that is not the case, the comic market is overall back to pricing 2019 levels.

Damn near all the books that tripled in price between the months before early 2020 to the 2020.21 bubble, have depressed in FMV to around a 1/3 of the 2020-21 bubble FMV’s.

The gold rush is over and that was a once in a life market shift, it is never going to happen again.


Post 33 IP   flag post
I like bean sprouts. James42 private msg quote post Address this user
That NewWorldOrder guy is something else.

I don't submit to CGC anymore. I still buy CGC books in plenty, but I want to see the book before I buy. "Buy the book, not the slab." This makes newton rings a big issue for me as a buyer; if I can't see the book because of the slab, it's hard to buy the book. It seems like CGC and many of its supporters (flippers in particular) care more about selling the slab.
Post 34 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
One big deal about the policy is that it means CGC will never have to deal with any book that was received by a customer before May 4. That eliminates a lot of outstanding liability.
Post 35 IP   flag post
Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020. HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by James42
That NewWorldOrder guy is something else.

I don't submit to CGC anymore. I still buy CGC books in plenty, but I want to see the book before I buy. "Buy the book, not the slab." This makes newton rings a big issue for me as a buyer; if I can't see the book because of the slab, it's hard to buy the book. It seems like CGC and many of its supporters (flippers in particular) care more about selling the slab.
well if the book is VG the case should be NM😂
Post 36 IP   flag post
Collector PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
The Newton’s Rings policy makes perfect sense. Though they should make clear that buyers shouldn’t expect something clear. They should also promote more images of books with Newton’s Rings on their website to demonstrate what someone might expect the finished product to look like. Or not. Not like a McD’s burger looks like the photo.

The other errors policy makes sense (requiring submitter be original purchaser) EXCEPT the time restriction. Two weeks is utter BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
The Newton’s Rings policy makes perfect sense. Though they should make clear that buyers shouldn’t expect something clear. They should also promote more images of books with Newton’s Rings on their website to demonstrate what someone might expect the finished product to look like. Or not. Not like a McD’s burger looks like the photo.

The other errors policy makes sense (requiring submitter be original purchaser) EXCEPT the time restriction. Two weeks is utter BS.


Minor newton rings, I agree.

But for slabs that look like oil slicks, they should be treated as mechanical errors.

See my TL;DR post above for an explanation.
Post 37 IP   flag post
I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).
Splotches is gettin old!
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
I've seen this so so many times with companies (most often my own).

When things are good and everyone is making money, we all ride that wave. The company, the suppliers, the customers, the people, etc..

Then the company starts faltering and/or their market decreases and the horsesh$t decisions begin to squeeze every penny and to blame someone else. Then those horsesh$t decisions/blaming filter outward and everyone else pays the price. Then everyone else changes their activities/buying habits/approach... and it continues outward until finally everyone loses something.

Unfortunately in this market there's really only 3 options once your head explodes. These 2 companies or just dealing with raw books.

These are not good time in this hobby from a financial standpoint
Post 38 IP   flag post
Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
IMO, the cause of the newton rings should be fixed instead of just saying “it can happen, and you need to just accept it”.

We know they’re new. Started when they changed case design. No reason they can’t change the plastic.
Post 39 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
If people stopped submitting to cgc because of newton rings, you would see a slab change so fast your head would spin. Newton rings are a many years old complaint that obviously has had no significant impact to their bottom line if at all. People complain but still submit....what's in it for cgc to change their slab?
Post 40 IP   flag post
being an ass and being a clown are two very different things. HAmistoso private msg quote post Address this user







Post 41 IP   flag post
I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Edit: Rant answered on CGC post
Post 42 IP   flag post
CBCS Boomhauer HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user
@ZenmasterHeinz says:

"We send our books where we send our books. Numerous reasons apply"
Post 43 IP   flag post
I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).
Splotches is gettin old!
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
The strange thing is the Newton ring thing barely even bothers me anymore.
It's like getting hit over the head with a pipe - eventually you get used to it or one is brain damaged.
I think I'm both, with respect to Newton Rings.

What still absolutely boils my head is the cracks and damage.
It's like every damn shipment.
Every.

Damages in any venue of commerce is unacceptable. Completely unacceptable
I deal with it immediately and call immediately, and get a return label immediately, but that's just because I have OCD in dealing with problems right away as they happen.
I feel for those that for some reason will not be able to or cannot.
Post 44 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Hell, they just need to learn how to f...ing grade.
Post 45 IP   flag post
CBCS Boomhauer HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Hell, they just need to learn how to f...ing grade.


I’m not going to lie, I’ve sent books there with other people over the past year and a half. I didn’t find any more or less anomalies between either. That doesn’t mean anything though as I’m just a guy.
Post 46 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
When things are good and everyone is making money, we all ride that wave. The company, the suppliers, the customers, the people, etc..

Then the company starts faltering and/or their market decreases and the horsesh$t decisions begin to squeeze every penny and to blame someone else. Then those horsesh$t decisions/blaming filter outward and everyone else pays the price. Then everyone else changes their activities/buying habits/approach... and it continues outward until finally everyone loses something.

These are not good time in this hobby from a financial standpoint


You are correct, and to compound the point, there was a flood of slabbed inventory added to the market in the last two years. Much of it went up for sale immediately. I imagine they are seeing record numbers of requests for free reholdering. These customer service expenses may seem acceptable to a company during record revenues...not so acceptable when those revenues taper off.
Post 47 IP   flag post
If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeinzDad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Hell, they just need to learn how to f...ing grade.


I’m not going to lie, I’ve sent books there with other people over the past year and a half. I didn’t find any more or less anomalies between either. That doesn’t mean anything though as I’m just a guy.

Both grading companies operate on a sine wave. The cgc just experience shorter wavelengths than CBCS.
Post 48 IP   flag post
I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).
Splotches is gettin old!
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
I wish it was a cosine wave because never in the phase I'm desiring
Post 49 IP   flag post
CBCS Boomhauer HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user
Roger that.
Post 50 IP   flag post
He sounds like a vegan who wants real mayonnaise to be vegan friendly. Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user
My issue with this is the "Mechanical Error" policy as a whole.

I can understand charging $20+ for a new casing, as many might want the new trendy label, or simply have their comic look as nice as possible. But to enforce that on subs after a 14 day policy, or just simply enforce it on those who bought said comic from said sub? No thanks.

If the debris is a mechanical error, the re-casing should be free regardless of who owns it. Everything else could be charged since the removal of that $20 is a better policy-based move. Especially if the buyer had help from a family or friend, or even preordered it from an online comic shop.

Plus, as a follow-up to what @DrWatson is saying, the only reason why I would pick up a CGC graded 9.4-9.6 is simply because there are no CBCS 9.4-9.8 copies of what I want for sale.
Post 51 IP   flag post
Collector Retired_11B private msg quote post Address this user
My last order had 3 with the wrong information on them.
Post 52 IP   flag post
I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).
Splotches is gettin old!
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
You're on the clock: 13 days, 18 hours, 23 minutes to get it back to CGC. Go!
(side note: hope you're the submitter; otherwise do not pass Go)

Such a wonderful policy.
What a great company.
They're just the best. I can't say it enough times.
Post 53 IP   flag post
Collector PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
The strange thing is the Newton ring thing barely even bothers me anymore.
It's like getting hit over the head with a pipe - eventually you get used to it or one is brain damaged.
I think I'm both, with respect to Newton Rings.

What still absolutely boils my head is the cracks and damage.
It's like every damn shipment.
Every.

Damages in any venue of commerce is unacceptable. Completely unacceptable
I deal with it immediately and call immediately, and get a return label immediately, but that's just because I have OCD in dealing with problems right away as they happen.
I feel for those that for some reason will not be able to or cannot.


Best way to avoid cracked slabs is to limit each invoice to 10 books.

A 10 book per invoice means that 10 book invoice will be shipped in a box that weighs under 20 pounds; , which means those 10 slabs will be shipped in CGC’s “standard shipping kit box”.

The next size up box is IIRC,fits close to 50 pounds worth of slabs.

The average worker is going to be heavy handed with a box weighing close to 50 pounds.

All there is protecting those slabs in a 50 pound box (or a 10 book slab box) is about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 of cardboard.

The inner cardboard buffer on the Bottom of those boxes is just under an inch thick but it is NOT dense cardboard.

One drop on a corner of the box from waist level can crack a handful of slabs.

Then at the next delivery point, say it gets dropped again- 💥, now upwards of half the slabs in the box are cracked.

I recall getting about 30 slabs from CGC in one box via ups ground back in 2016.

These were different boxes, and much better constructed with bubble wrap and a cardboard insert between every slab. Also, those were pre 4/4/20-6 holders- those slabs are considerably lighter than the bricks that CGC has used since 4/2016.

None of those slabs were cracked or had newton rings.

Soon as CGC switched over to their “shipping kit” style shipping boxes, I switched over to 10 books per invoice.

Far as Newton Rings, they will continue to be a problem, unless CGC redesigns their holders.

That should not fall onto the submitter- I can understand CHC not reholdering every slab with newton rings on them but slabs that are covered with newton rings are an eyesore and that hurts marketability of a book.

Again, if the 2020-21 bubble was still flowing strong, then okay, CGC could pass the buck on newton rings onto the submitter because the submitter could AFFORD to eat reholdwr costs.

Not the case anymore, on the majority of books.
Post 54 IP   flag post
Collector codychunn private msg quote post Address this user
In the end, the prisms are not part of the comic, so they are not part of the grade. Buyers are going to have to trust the brand to have the comic that matches the grade sticker, regardless of slab condition. Will buyers trust them and keep buying? Do you trust the grade of the comic in the slab matches the label? Or verify yourself raw?
Post 55 IP   flag post
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