We need lettered “tier levels” for green labels and .5 grades19419
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 Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
Am I the Lone Ranger on this one?? I remember in the early days of grading that third party grading was mainly to lessen the chances of receiving virtually undetectable restored books as complete and original books. And to level the playing field for unknowlegable or unscrupulous sellers that sell to unknowlegable or duped customers. And I get that you can request a .5 blue label vs a green label when submitting comics for grading because it's all about label color vs grade for some people. I get all of that. But after doing this for nearly 50 years, I believe there really needs to be some differentiation between green labels and .5 blue labels to give some idea of how much is actually missing. I know CBCS has the check mark and/or "restored" notation that state the obvious. But just like we all have a restoration code (or phrase) for what level of restoration has been detected (slight, moderate, etc), why not have a code letter on green and .5 labels to do the same? The pic I’m showing is a prime example. IMHO, I don’t believe this book should be graded the same (before reading the grader's notes) as a 7.5 that is simply missing a coupon. Also, on a different note, if a page’s border area has been torn out, is that graded the same as if it were neatly cut out (such as removing a previous owner’s name)? And is a missing coupon graded the same whether it’s torn out or neatly cut out? Is removing a panel graded the same as removing a coupon?Oddly enough, to some I believe “torn out” coupons would show it was ‘loved and enjoyed’ more in some cases, not necessarily to me, but some might say it shows excitement from the reader. Just like a subscription crease likely means it was read more than a random 7 inch diagonal fold across the book (which likely means mishandling). And should a .5 blue label missing a single page be graded the same as one missing 12 pages? And if the picture I’m posting here had, for example, a heavy stain or markings on a few pages (but nice otherwise and had a complete story) and only missing a coupon, would it be better to just rip all the pages out that are damaged and have the remaining 1/2 of a book be graded higher? I mean, wouldn't everyone rather NOT have 5 missing pages from a book with a 7.5 green label graded the same as a complete book with a coupon missing and no story affected, still in a 7.5 green label? I realize this is a grading rabbit hole. But it’s just one reason I lose sleep at night. This and how deep does space actually go? It’s all confusing rocket surgery to me. Why not .5A, .5B, .5C, etc? The higher the letter, the more that's missing? Anything is better than just the same grade. Simply my humble suggestion. |
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 Collector
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Ryan4421 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| As a collector, I prefer the lack of differentiation since it let's me find some huge bargains when other buyers turn away from a green label. For example, CGC only recognizes witnessed signatures and puts a green label if it wasn't witnessed. They use the same green label for a missing coupon. I've purchased books with witnessed stan lee signatures but just had a coupon inside cut out so it has a green label...you have to read what the green label says to see what's in the case. | ||
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 Collector
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KCBatmanFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It doesn’t look like the picture attached, but it’s a good question. Is my “stripped“ Fantastic Four 48 “less” incomplete than a book that has the cover, but is missing internal wraps? Ultimately, incomplete is incomplete. But it does seem like there could be degrees to this. | ||
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Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Sorry. Just fixed the pic. | ||
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Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If incomplete is incomplete and varying degrees don’t matter, then maybe the old GOOD, FINE, MINT theory wasn’t so bad after all. But wait… as I recall, that didn’t work either. Collectors always strive to either GET the best one or NOT care at all. IMHO a comic that’s otherwise complete with cover, but missing a coupon is way more attractive than the same one missing 6 pages OR a cover less copy. I, for one, see value in having more of the actual original book. But that’s just me. | ||
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 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think the Green label is CGCs remedy to your point. I think additional levels in identifying .5s is over complicating. | ||
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 I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 5 pages missing + a panel = 7.5? (oh oh oh... my bad.... "Qualified" green labels makes it aaaaaaaaaaall better) Makes total sense to me.  |
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Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That’s a fair observation. But if my idea is over complicating it, then why do we have 5 tiers for each grade between GOOD and MINT? That seems rather over complicated. Not saying you are wrong. I’m just saying we have over complicated it to the point of this… New and Used became Good Fine and Mint. Then Good Fine Mint became a 10 point system that has evolved into 15 tiers. All that is GREAT! I scream that from the rooftops. But if there’s 15 tiers for 5 basic grades AND we are paying $20, $30, $50, sometimes $$$$$$$ to grade one book, why stop at a simple nondescriptive Green label or .5? Simply giving a Green label or especially a .5 for the same fee as good solid graders notes, to me, seems like the equivalent of being glad you don’t really have to work that day. Am I wrong? Can anyone really say we are getting our money’s worth?? It only takes that first big purchase to realize “uh oh, I kinda wish that had been more clear.” | ||
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I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In my opinion there should never have been a green (qualified) label ever created. 5 pages missing in a book is not a wink wink 7.5 on any planet in this solar system. But hobbyists cry; money is lost without it, cgc controls the industry, and here we are on planet earth with this green stupidity. Any changes to this green stupidity to try and make it more reasonable will still be .... stupidity. |
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| .5 Incomplete is the biggest cop-out in graded comics. | ||
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Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My remedy suggestion would be: Only have BLUE labels. And a few very specific grades below 1.0 that have specific legitimate described meaning. Also, add 3 stages of EYE APPEAL similarly to PAGE QUALITY. But that’s a perfect world. |
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 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Eye appeal? The one thing nearly everyone can judge on their own. No thanks. Only blue? No thanks. Restored and conserved are deserving of separate labels. Signed too. Do we need green? Doubtful. Though married pages treatment is maybe an odd in-between that deserves a rethink. |
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 It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The green label should not exist. But a qualified grade should. In my opinion, if the book qualifies for a Qualified grade it should be a universal blue label with the correct blue label grade and underneath the universal grade put the Qualified: 7.5 grade. Something like this:  If its Qualified because it's a married wrap....that should really be a Purple label because that's pretty much Restoration. But green labels should not exist in my opinion. |
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Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC I like that idea too! | ||
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Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave “Eye appeal” meaning “… but presents as a ____” I’m totally on board with Restored and Conserved. No question about that. | ||
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 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
Qualified grade is mutton dressed up as lamb... Nuff said  |
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I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by southerncross Good one! To expand upon that thought: It's dog food dressed up as Kranmars Delicious Mystery Appetizer |
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Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 It's sole purpose is to sell books for more money then it's actual grade. Example. 2 copies Hulk 181 where the covers of both books would grade 9.4. Both books are missing the Marvel value stamp. One book graded universal 1.0 White pages. The other Qualified green label 9.4 White pages. Which book would sell for more do you think? Both books are equal in condition except one is blue label with accurate grade while the other is a green label puffed up grade. |
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @southerncross but everyone knows green label is a qualified grade. I get what you're saying but if someone is dropping that kind of money on a book without knowing the basic difference between blue and green labels then that's kind of on them. I'm not a fan of green labels but the qualified grade does serve a purpose. It's a small piece of the puzzle when combined with the universal grade. It's another way of looking at the condition of the book. The qualified grade should compliment the universal grade and be subordinate to the universal grade. It adds texture/context to the description of the book. The meaning of the green label/qualified grade is not a secret. It's common knowledge of what it is. If the identical books sell for different amounts solely because of the number in the white box, that's a problem with the buyer....not the label. |
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| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hmmmm.... Soooo... if say I have a 'key' with 1 missing page what I should do is cut out any other 'key' pages, get it graded to get the incomplete anyway or better yet get a green label and sell the comic book THEN also 'grade' the other pages I cut out to get more than what just an incomplete would be...so in effect the parts are more valuable than the whole??? I suppose just how 'key' it is I should trim bits from the pages to get those sold on their own too??? |
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 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC The resell market will pay more for the qualified label because it provides more information and reduces uncertainty. Uncertainty is a deal-killer in sales. A salesman or sales organization that is good at eliminating uncertainty for the customer can charge higher prices or be rewarded with greater demand. The 1.0 blue label really only speaks to the missing parts of the book. The qualified 9.4 label speaks to both the missing parts and provides information on the remaining parts, seen and unseen. More information=more certainty=more value to the buyer=higher selling price. |
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Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Qualified oh if it wasn't poor missing elements of the comic it'll be near mint. Mutton dressed up as lamb. It's just a excuse to get more money off inexperienced collectors in the secondary back issue market. Plain and simple. |
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Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Prove me wrong that qualified grade used to grade poor books higher for Muppets trying to line their pockets by uninformed punters and use them as mugs? Thought I'd use some English slang in there. 🤪 |
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I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
ahhhhh.... the things we humans create & rules we bend to ensure a buck isn't lost and a person doesn't get upset  |
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Collector
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If Qualified has a purpose, and that’s a valid statement, then especially why not tier levels? Qualified 7.5A missing a coupon. Qualified 7.5B missing a large piece. Qualified 7.5C missing a page. Qualified 7.5D missing multiple pages. Something along those lines. Something to instantly give a better idea. I mean, they have the book in front of them, they are grading it, they are putting it (mostly) in the notes, and it will very likely be encapsulated and never opened again. And graders notes on the labels are becoming less and less. Why should a buyer have to goto the website to get a better idea about the level of condition. I get that someone spending a good bit of money should do their research. Of course they should. But if a seller knows they’re not interested in multiple missing pages, for example, that A, B, C, D, etc would save a buyer a lot of time not having to look up as much info on every individual book. It seems so logical. MORE info is better for us, the buyers. And ultimately, for us, the sellers too. Knowledge is power. School house rock taught us that. Duh. | ||
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
@jaysonslade Don't green labels state what's missing right on the label? |
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Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC@jaysonslade I get what you are saying and I understand the break down you are presenting; however the notes as GAC has pointed out is the important information provided. I don’t agree with grades being broken down further based on certain criteria, but I do see how you would appreciate it. Grade .5C = “condition X”. I think doing so would require a rework of established grading criteria and be detrimental to your already graded books. Here me out What you do currently get from CGC and CBCS for incomplete books is the Grade + reasons why it got that grade based on the established grading criteria. Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson I do see why you’d say that (if the comment is serious), but a third party has to cover their ass. How could a (credible) third party grade an incomplete book other than incomplete (without the Green label “copout”)? Yes you could sell your own book as a “7.5, but is missing the center wrap, does not affect story”. In reality it is in complete by definition and what a third party is going to determine. Are all .5s equal? No! That is where being a responsible buyer/collector comes in. If an EC .5 is missing the center wrap of only add pages that present as a 9.0; he’ll ya I’d be interested and pay what I fell it is worth! The same .5 missing multiple pages?; I’d pay far less. I think the collectible market relies too much on given grades as opposed to what they are actually looking at when it comes to lower grades resulting in extreme cases like the massive price gap between common books in 9.8 and 9.6 that we are familiar with. My 2 cents. (Maybe 4 or 6) If it’s truly how feel keep preaching brother, but I think a negative rehaul of grading criteria would be the end result changing the entire hobby as we see it and putting already good accurately books into question. |
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jaysonslade private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @HulkSmash @GAC If we could depend on every grading company putting all the details on the label, then sure. But some info (like a detached cover) is already being left off. What comes next? All I’d like is more info displayed. Better yet, put complete graders notes on the reverse side of the label. There’s plenty of room. Who wouldn’t like complete graders notes on the reverse side? And even better that that, who wouldn’t like some type of graders notes on every comic? I’m not asking for an entire overhaul. But right now we have tiers of Restored books, so why not 3-4 tiers of Incomplete books? I don’t think that’s asking for an overhaul as much as it’s asking for clear documentation. Removing some graders notes from grading labels in the last year or so made me wonder what else will they arbitrarily start leaving off. It just seems so logical. If it’s a public grade, then print it on the label. IMHO this would put one grading company miles ahead of the other(s). | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jaysonslade do you ever scan the QR code on the back of the CBCS labels to see the grader notes? In my opinion that's a much better way than trying to put the actual notes on the labels. I agree with you that more information is better, that's why I think the qualified label is important. The ".5 Incomplete" grade is pointless. I don't just want a professional opinion of what's missing...I could do that myself. I want to get a professional opinion of what remains. But I'm not sure it's necessary to give a professional opinion on the level of incompleteness. If we are going beyond just the facts, I think the professional opinion is only necessary for what remains of the book. |
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