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Monthly (Comic) Book Club - April - Jack Kirby’s New Gods19382

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Monthly (Comic) Book Club - April - Jack Kirby’s New Gods




New Gods (vol. 1) #1-11
New Gods (vol. 2) #6

Week 1 (4/3-4/9): New Gods #1-3
Week 2 (4/10-4/16): New Gods #4-6
Week 3 (4/17/-4/23): New Gods #7-9
Week 4 (4/24-4/30): New Gods #10-11, New Gods (vol 2) #6



Discussion topic ideas:

* Thoughts on the story or artwork
* Details in the story, artwork, or presentation
* References to outside events or other works of fiction
* Making of/Behind the Scenes details
* Editions you will be reading from
* Items in your collection pertaining to this week’s selection
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Jack Kirbys epic story. The full story is told in 4 seperate comic titles from 4 different perspectives.

New Gods: This is the conflict from the perspective of the major players, Darkseid, All Father, Orion etc.

Mister Miracle: This is the conflict from the perspective of Mr. Miracle.

Forever People: This is the conflict from the perspective of the children on New Genesis.

Superman's Pal: Jimmy Olsen: This is the conflict from the perspective of Earth.

Jack's contract was coming up for renewal/re-negotiation at Marvel. He intended to introduce the New Gods in the Mighty Thor to have conflict with Asgard. He held the New Gods back from Marvel to see if he would be satisfied with his new contract. He wasn't and moved to DC.

It's interesting to think how the New Gods may have differed if published at Marvel.

The story is so grand and epic. He created another universe similar to how the X-men feel a little seperate from the Marvel universe (or maybe it's just me that thinks this). The New Gods feels like its own thing.

Even 30 years after he started in the industry, Jack was still so incredibly creative and groundbreaking.

Alex Ross after the King.

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#1 sets quite the epic tone, starting with the destruction of a previous universe and the creation of a new one. I wonder if this is meant to be the creation of the DC universe, or something more limited? In either case, we do have a prototypical set-up: there's good (New Genesis) and evil (Apokolips), with Orion the fighting good guy trying to stop the evil. He is not a fan of Metron because their natures are so different. The language is grand and flowery. The stakes are life versus death, freedom versus slavery. It all does feel very classical.

For an epic, things move fairly quickly though. An instruction from the Source wall is enough to send Orion to Apokolips single-handed, and by the end of the issue he's on Earth.

I know Kirby is a comic master, but I'll quietly confess that his art is not my favorite. Everything looks kind of squarish, and sometimes people look too similar. When he took his helmet off, I thought Orion and Lightray looked like twins. But I will persevere.
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#2 - I was not expecting Orion to walk into a room and Darkseid is just sitting there. But we meet more of his minions, and get some examples of the extent of his cruelty. Otherwise I'd say it was a pretty breezy issue, with Orion destroying a fear ray and not much else moving ahead. Introducing new characters is a perfectly good thing to do, of course.
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#3 makes me wish there was a little more backstory or build-up in the story. The Black Racer takes center stage, being central to both halves of the story. But why is he going after Lightray? In some depictions, death (or its embodiment) kind of just goes around and collects people when they die. That isn't the case here. But the Racer does talk a lot about destiny and feeling where he's supposed to go, as if he doesn't have control over who he gets. So what's the deal?

Otherwise, it seems like this issue serves to tie into other stories where New Gods-related stuff has been happening. The other half of the story is about Orion and one of his human buddies looking for Apokolips stuff and finding part of Inter-Gang. They stop a bombing, although we don't know what exactly Darkseid had in mind for it.
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I’m reading from the Absolute Jack kirby’s Fourth World which is a massive 800+ page tome. New Gods #1 begins just over 100 pages in after 3 issues of Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olson and an issue of the Forever People. How much of that will influence what we’re reading we’ll have to see. In this issue we do learn that Darkseid is already on Earth building tunnels beneath major cities, which presumably includes Metropolis, so Superman is probably on the case as we speak.

I totally agree that Kirby’s approach feels classical, almost as if it were written for the stage. Characters have grand names like Orion or All-Father conjuring images of great players who are written into the stars.

Despite starting at the beginning, Kirby does succeed in making the characters feel like they have long, intertwining histories. Orion has been called home but where has he been? Metron is on his own quest for knowledge but it seems no secret that it is a goal he will accomplish at seemingly any cost.

The wall of prophecy sends Orion on his way. While a prophet or fortune-teller directing the hero certainly feels at home in the epic style Kirby is creating; I feel that maybe it was too direct and obvious in its message robbing it of some of the mystique that typically accompany such messages. Having a hand writing it out doesn’t help either. Had the prophecy just been in the dancing of the flames to be interpreted by the All-Father I think it might have worked better. Although it is part of the style at the time to be more direct and often explain what the reader is seeing even if doing so would actually somewhat awkward in practice (see the fight scenes where Orion is almost giving a play-by-play of the actions).

Orion is sent to Apokalips where after some fighting he comes across several humans captured by Darkseid so he can develop a way to read human minds to help him find the Anti-Life Equation on Earth. I wonder if we see their capture and/or Darkseid’s experiments in any of the previous issues.

A boom tube (previously seen in Justice to send Green Lantern out into the depths of space) later and Orion is on Earth ready to seek out and stop Darkseid.
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On the subject of Kirby’s art, I think it’s entirely understandable that his particular style may not be one’s cup of tea but I also feel that, as objectively as one can be when talking about art, we can agree that he is a great artist with a unique style and visual language

That said, I do feel there is something lacking in this book in particular and the blame for that is often laid at the feet of inker Vince Colletta. There are a lot of instances in the book, particularly with faces where things just don’t look quite right. Looking at the selection of pencils in the Absolute Edition one thing that is clear is that Kirby was a consummate and consistent draftsman so I don’t find it hard to believe there is some truth regarding Colletta’s work and the fact that he is replaced by Mark Royer in later issues further supports that in my mind.





Of course, making a comic in those days was probably more about making the deadline than creating a work of art so I can understand why Colletta worked the way he did but I don’t think it is unfair to say that he did not make Kirby’s work look its best

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dielinfinite
The wall of prophecy sends Orion on his way. While a prophet or fortune-teller directing the hero certainly feels at home in the epic style Kirby is creating; I feel that maybe it was too direct and obvious in its message robbing it of some of the mystique that typically accompany such messages. Having a hand writing it out doesn’t help either


I agree, it does seem awfully straightforward. And I agree with your other point about there being a lot of out-loud narrating. I noticed it in issues 2 or 3 where characters are recapping previously issues to each other, even though they were all there together.
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iI agree that issue 2 starts us off in an unfamiliar situation. Why is Darkseid just sitting in a random apartment and how did Orion find him?

Orion is ambushed by Brola, one of Darkseid’s minions. He is strong but Orion overpowers him. I know Brola claims to have the power of the Stone Hand but it just looks like he’s holding a brick.

Darkseid and Brola vanish back to Darkseid’s secret base where we see how little he cares for his own minions when he offers them up as test subjects for Desaad’s new fear machine. Apparently Darkseid wants to induce fear as a way of triggering the brainwaves of the human carrying knowledge of the Anti-Life Equation.

Darkseid triggers the machine and Orion destroys it rather quickly. The plan seems to have failed when the desired brainwave is not found.

Meanwhile, Orion has recruited the four humans he saved from Apocalips into his coming war. It is a strange decision since we don’t know if these people have any relevant skills (though I’m sure it will turn out that they do).

Orion also decides that he will have to blend in with the population and so asks his group for a human name to go by. And the name they chose is…”Orion” 😑 Okay, technically it’s “O’Ryan” but that would only be apparent if you’re read word balloons and not if you’re just speaking with someone.
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Yeah there seems to be a disconnect again in issue 3 where we begin not where we expect to be. LightRay disobeying and (possibly?) making his way to earth in defiance of the All-Father makes some sense but I have no idea where the Black Racer came from or why he is after Light Ray. I flipped through the pages of Jimmy Olsen, Forever People, and Mister Miracle and he didn’t appear there nor was there any obvious explanation of Darkseid’s goal with the Earth gangs.

I do have to wonder about Black Racer’s design, though. Kirby is know for some amazing sci-fi creations and then you have black racer, an other-worldy being that is possibly death itself and he’s wearing a medieval knight’s helmet and gauntlets, and rides a pair of skiis complete with skii poles. And the less said about the color scheme the better. I suppose they can’t all be classic designs when you’re churning out four titles every month. I kind of have to wonder if Kirby’s co-creation, the Silver Surfer, was somewhere in his head when conceptualizing Black Racer. Silver Surfer is just a much more elegant concept and design; a chrome humanoid riding a featureless slab (which may or may not be an actual surfboard) through the cosmos. Whereas Black Racer just feels like an awkward mishmash of elements.

Also does the Black Racer power go specifically from black man to black man?

Early in the story we are shown Orion’s true face and he wonders if such a person can truly be from New Genesis. Given how often we are told that he fights like someone from Apokalips you have to wonder if that will be relevant later.

The Mother Box is a bit of a plot-furthering device as it basically does whatever the plot needs it to do. It found the source of the fear ray in the previous issue. It changes Orion’s face, it found the bomb, it disabled the Apokalips weapons, and detonated Darkseid’s bomb. I can see it being something of a crutch to get the story where Kirby wants it to go and get the heroes in and out of trouble when needed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dielinfinite
Early in the story we are shown Orion’s true face and he wonders if such a person can truly be from New Genesis. Given how often we are told that he fights like someone from Apokalips you have to wonder if that will be relevant later.


Other characters have already revealed that Orion is actually from Apokalips, although we don't have the full story on why he doesn't know that or why he's fighting for New Genesis. I assume it will become an issue at some point. But I don't know how well it will land since we don't have the origin story to back it up. We basically know New Genesis is good and Apokalips is bad but there hasn't been much else to latch emotion to.
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Issue 4 begins with Metron taking a young boy on a tour of the past before returning to New Genesis and learning that one of their kind has died.

Back on Earth, Seagrin’s dead body is fished out of the water. I don’t think we’ve met Seagrin before and I looking briefly through some of the issues from the other books his death doesn’t seem to take place there.

We get a brief scene with the Black Racer seeming acting as Death after Seagrin’s passing and a strange, as in wildly different from how we know him today, shot of Darkseid observing events while hiding behind a corner like a common street urchin.

Back at Lincoln’s house, Orion is looking to go on the offensive against the forces of Apokalips. The Mother Box informs him that there is a device that hides the beings from Apokalips from its detection. The device itself is guarded by a human gang, which Mother Box can find. Seems like the smart thing would’ve been to have Apokalips’ troops guarding the device.

The rest of the issue reads more like a hard-boiled detective comic than a superhero comic as Orion’s human helpers infiltrate the gang headquarters. The older man in the group has to portray a business manager for a rival gang but ends up not having to do much.

Having expected their arrival, the mob boss shoots the goon that revealed their location and then decides to kill the old man but not before revealing the alien device that his gang has been hired to protect.

Orion immediately appears and destroys the device. His gang disarm the enemy gang leaders and Orion follows Mother Box’ directions to find Seagrin’s killers, the Deep Six, who can mutate and control organic sea life. After a brief encounter with some overgrown tentacles, Orion is brought face to face with Seagrin’s killer…

I do wonder if Seagrin was properly introduced and if his death was portrayed elsewhere. Otherwise, it’s something of a meaningless death that doesn’t shock the audience as much as it should and makes Orion’s distress more understandable. Even if it were, I think we could’ve removed the pages of Metron giving a tour and replaced them with some flashback or something showing Seagrin and Orion together in the past just to make Seagrin’s death mean something to the reader and not just Orion.

I am a little disappointed that that the epic scale and fantastical sci-fi promise of the first two issues hasn’t quite materialized. Since Orion has arrived on Earth he’s mostly dealt with gangs and mobsters and his closest allies are a bunch of random, every day people. I’m even a bit disappointed that we’re on Earth to begin with. The story opens up with words of Old Gods and new planets and then we’re almost immediately whisked back to Earth where we’ll be for an indeterminate amount of time.

I think part of that disappointment might be because we’re reading one title out of the four that make up Kirby’s Fourth World. All stories seem to take place on Earth but others, particularly The Forever People, seem to incorporate more of Kirby’s sci-fi gadgetry and characters than we’ve seen so far in New Gods
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#4 has Orion really turn to "O'Ryan" and his gang. The gang part is a little odd, as the regular people have emphasized many times how ordinary they are, but there are plenty of stories where regular people get pulled into the spy business (or similar).

I agree that having Seagrin just show up dead is a miss. I think the 'interludes', or whatever you'd like to call them, with Metron here and Lightray in the other issue, help to expand the universe but they could be used better. Lightray introduced the Black Racer, and this one could have introduced Seagrin. And while there are a lot of gadgets, the series isn't as fantastical or mythical as it could be.
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I think the references to being 'celestials' is interesting since Marvel's Celestials were introduced by Kirby a few years later in his other story about god-like beings.

#5 continues spending more time than one might expect with Earth-folks. Now the police are getting involved. Some of Orion's allies are going home though, so we'll see where things go.

In the meantime, the part we see with Orion is not very flattering. He seems to take pleasure in tormenting Slig and killing him and his Mother Box. Next issue we might get a kaiju fight, so that will maybe be cool though.
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@xkonk I started the issue earlier this week but haven’t gotten back to it to finish it but I did want to comment about that intro with Metron. I agree with you that they seem to be used to explore the scope of the universe but I can’t help but want to see more of THAT portion of the universe rather than being stranded on Earth.

Those gigantic explorers were super compelling and I’d rather we were exploring more of that than playing cops and robbers in the main story
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@dielinfinite no joke. Not every space god story turns out great, but I like the odds better than a space god story about human gangsters.
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#6 - "not even the private yachts of the rich are spared!". What a funny line.

Aside from the humans, which I found outright annoying, this was probably my favorite issue so far. This has the cool Kirby designs I was expecting, and the battle seems more interesting with Lightray involved. I hope this marks a turn in the series.
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Okay, I finished issue 5. About half of the book deals with the police investigation that will eventually lead to the Apokalpis/ New Genesis goings on on Earth. The other half is Orion’s escape from the Deep Six.

I did enjoy the second half. Yes, Orion isn’t particularly heroic but it was intentional by Kirby and he did a great job conveying that in the dialogue and artwork. I think the idea of a “hero” hiding that kind of darkness within is a pretty interesting idea.

It is great to see something fantastical really starting to enter the main storyline with the giant whale-beast at the end and we’ll have to see what Kalibak’s arrival means for the story.

This was the first issue so far inked by Mike Royer instead of Vince. Olestra and I do feel there is a subtle (as it is still Kirby’s pencils) but notable increase in art quality, particularly in the facial expressions which convey a lot of emotion, particularly in Orion’s fight with Slig
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I agree that issue 6 is the strongest issue so far. I would’ve liked to see more direct confrontation with the enormous sea-beast, maybe as they protect the cube until it fully matures or something.

The humans did feel out of place. We’re out in the middle of the ocean and somehow we still have a bickering civilian family to deal with. I do think the father having a mental break was an interesting idea, I got some Black Freighter-type vibes from it, but the family felt more in-the-way than a crucial part of the story.

I find it a little weird that the Deep Six, despite being from a technologically advanced planet come to the fight with medieval weapons like a sai and an axe head on a rope
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#7 has the space god epic stuff that I assumed was going to be throughout the series. It serves as Orion's origin story, but also sort of Darkseid's and introduces Mister Miracle (Scott Free). I think it also inadvertently addresses @dielinfinite's point about the weapons, because at least some of them also have cosmic blasts and stuff in them. I think we're back to Earth and playing cops and robbers next issue, but I would prefer a series on the old war between New Genesis and Apokalips and star guns and that stuff.
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I wonder if people in the 60s/70s referred to themselves in the third person more often, or if that's a Kirby comics thing? Dave Lincoln can remind you of his name!

#8 has a strong human presence but the main action is a fight between Orion and Kalibak. I wouldn't call the art dynamic but it is powerful. I think Kirby's tendency to draw everyone somewhat alike hurts with Turpin, who is presumably a tough guy but looks just like Orion or another superpowered person. At least Orion and Lightray's elevator conversation with Lanza's neighbor adds some humor to the book.
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Eve Donner (and let me tell you some of my life story while we're introducing ourselves to aliens!) has a funny idea of what 'top secret' means. That 'police battle' seemed anything but secret.

The intro with Forager seemed like another one of the couple-page asides we've gotten in other issues, but it turns out that it will weave into the plot somehow. Forager is similar to Orion and Scott Free (who we haven't really met yet) in that he's from one race/group but has been living his whole life as part of another. And by the end of the issue, Forager is on Earth with the threat of another alien group showing up and threatening the world.

I was thinking last issue that it isn't really clear how the plot is progressing. We're meeting a lot of characters and things are happening, but Orion is chasing down Darkseid and it isn't clear what Darkseid is up to since the fear ray was destroyed. I've enjoyed the last couple issues more than the initial ones but a little narrative momentum would help.
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Man, issue 7 is basically everything I expected coming into this series. It’s not perfect but it has that scope of mythology in a cosmic setting.

I loved that Kirby nestled Izaya’s personal story into this great war across planets and stars. Seeing the war fought with weapons the size of planets and blasting stars at each other is the level of grandeur that I expect from a series called the New Gods. And from that you can still understand Izaya’s desire to give up war to not become the enemy he has been fighting so viciously.

Given how Darkseid has been portrayed in subsequent and particularly in recent appearances it feels weird to think of him as a son and nephew and then a father. The name “Scott Free” also feels out of place in a story with names like Steppenwolf, Izaya, and Darkseid. I understand it’s supposed to be a cruel pun but it just feels so mundane among every other name. I can just imagine a story of Greek gods Like Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades…oh yeah and he has a son named “Frank.”

Still, I find those minor quibbles among everything else. If this was a 12-issue mini series covering the events in this story with more detail, I’d be much happier. I wonder if something similar has been done in the intervening years?

Unfortunately it does seem like we will be going back to Earth in the following issues but hopefully we’ve moved on from cops and robbers. I’d even be fine if they left those plot threads unresolved to have more of the cosmic adventure we just read
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We’re back on Earth for issue 8 but the battle that makes up the most of it feels grandiose so I’m not too bothered.

Every blow in the battle felt powerful and momentous, which really sold the scale of it.

I do agree that Turpin’s art feels off. I think it’s because he was introduced as something of a minor or background character and his design got that level of treatment. But then he’s supposed to step up up and have a major role wile still looking like a background extra.

I will say that I think Kirby does a great job of created battered and bruised faces, which again helps sell the intensity of a conflict. In most books a character may get scraped or scuffed but Kirby makes them look bruised and swollen; looking like a whole baseball team just had batting practice on their face.

The police are wielding new hi-tech weapons. I think there is a throwaway line about them being new weapons they ordered. It seems a bit weird for them to just appear like that but given that the city has seen its share of damage from the likes of Superman and his rogues gallery by this point, it makes sense that they’d step up their defenses.

While this issue was fun, I’m not sure I’m really feeling a clear direction for the story aside from Orion battling a monster of the week (or month).
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Quote:
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I can just imagine a story of Greek gods Like Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades…oh yeah and he has a son named “Frank.”


Frank was the Greek god of honesty
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I guess we should wrap this up before the next one starts.

The bug people are a little confusing to me. They aren't tiny, although I guess they're smaller than humans and New Gods. One of the Earth people thinks Forager is a kid. But another wonders if he's a giant insect even though he looks nothing like an insect. Maybe it's in the way he moves? And I assume Mantis would be considered a bug but he's the same size as Orion. Their group nickname and status on New Genesis confuses me.

The police's attitude also confuses me a bit. This takes place in Metropolis, right? So they should be familiar (or should be generally even if it isn't Metropolis) with Superman and supervillains and what they can and can't handle. But the chief is very sure that he can hold Orion and Lightray even if they don't want to be held. Maybe he's just a hardass.

The battle is fine in general. Kirby's artwork is certainly dramatic. I wonder if Lightray's solution is known on New Genesis and that's how they keep the bugs out or if Kirby just wanted a fancy technological way to end the fight.
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#11 continues to show how, um, passionate Orion is, as he breaks his friend's statue for no reason. And it ends climactically, with Orion defeating Kalibak. I guess, assuming that the Black Racer taking him counts as Orion doing the defeating.

Darkseid's actions were interesting. Only being passing familiar with him, I assumed he would be happy to sacrifice whatever in pursuit of his goals. But he turns on Desaad instantly when he finds out that Desaad was helping Kalibak at the possible cost of Orion's life. As punishment, of course, Desaad was sent back in time.
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New Gods #6 to finish the story. It seemingly picks up pretty immediately, except Orion is already on Apokalips with his fancy equipment again. Obviously other things have been happening though, as the planet is full of machines that Darkseid wanted built, and we see characters that weren't introduced in the original series. And Lightray shows up; apparently his beating from Kalibak wasn't fatal. But we also get the old favorites back, as Desaad, Kalibak, and Mantis are resurrected (I guess Mantis died somewhere in between).

The ending is not what I expected. Darkseid barely tries to fight Orion at all, and when he does it's with guns instead of punches or omega beams. And in the end, he has Orion killed in a sneak attack by some other dudes, although Orion's death isn't confirmed. It seemed anticlimactic to me.

On the whole I would say the series was not as impressive as the hype led me to believe. There was too much time on Earth and with humans, and not enough space god stuff. When it was there, though, it was pretty good. It didn't feel especially focused, and the later series ending felt rushed, but it was more like what I expected.
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