Grade Shock?19272
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codychunn private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ever get your book graded and at the end have grade shock? I look at the notes and some slight issues with the back cover and top staple (with other slight defects, mostly to rear cover), and it's graded significantly lower than I expected. Seeing that a 7.5 is allowed a crease (among other things), and other defects are allowed if some others aren't present, I was surprised at the grade it earned. Is this normal, and I should grade my comics much more conservatively, or do slight back cover issues weigh that heavily overall? And conservation like small split or tear seal...does that cost a point, a half, or...? Any color touch moves from conservation to restoration, and that's a big deduction, right? Lower my expectations? |
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Briten private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've experienced it multiple times, both bad and good. I sent in a Batman Adventures 12 and my buddie and I agreeded it was probably in the 9.6-9.8 range. It came back a 9.0. We couldn't believe it and when we read the graders notes we were shocked to see "small dimples on the cover." We didn't see anything until we pulled out a magnifying glass and then it was apparent. As for good, I sent in a Showcase 60, thinking it was a 5.0 to 6.0 and it came back a 7.5. |
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I certainly have lowered my expectations of grades. When I sell raws I also put my opinion of grade to give potential buyers something to go on and I have lowered those grades too, across the board after getting my last few orders back. It is the game we play, so we must evolve with the official graders. Sadly some of my older graded books are too high in this new world but that is the game as well, so we must accept them too. |
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 You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The back cover is part of the comic and defects on the back cover should generally be graded as strictly as defects on the front cover. With that said, what you are mentioning is very common. Grading is a skill that takes time and experience to develop and even then defects can be missed. Some people also have a hard time being subjective when grading their own books. It takes discipline to assign a book that you are attached to or that is expensive in higher grades a mid-to-low grade. |
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 I don't want to brag, but cashiers are always checking me out.
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power_struggle55 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I guess my amazing spider-man #4 (first silk). stuff I never noticed before grader's note. Thought between 9.0-9.6 (had the digital sticker removed so could never get a 9.8 unless was the rare wouldve been 10.0). came as a 8.0. one of the things was a little fold in the back upper corner. I guess never noticed it as had it bagged and boarded. couldve came from when I was reading, putting it back in sleeve, while it was shipped to me when I bought (I think bought online as I buy most of mine online) or whatever. still looks great just the back. | ||
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codychunn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DWeeB1967 ->> May I ask, would you give the same penalty to a crease on the back cover as you would the same crease on the front cover? Do defects on the rear cover carry the same weight as ones on the front, everything else being equal? I would argue the rear cover should be less impactful than the front. |
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DWeeB1967 Totally agree. And yep, been there as well. I think anyone who has books graded at some point will have a book either over-graded or under-graded. I try and grade as conservatively as possible for my books, and most of the time I'm within one grade for books I've submitted (i.e., I grade it at 9.0 and it comes back 9.2 or 8.5, etc.). For me, I just have to step back and look objectively at what the grade and notes are and either agree with it or -- re-submit it. For example, I had a recent book that I had at a 9.2 come back at 8.0, and I'll admit, it's left a bad taste in my mouth. I've looked and looked based on the grading notes, and I simply don't see the flaws, so I'll be re-submitting with grading and press again. And I could easily spend the money and time and it can come back at 8.0 again. And all of that is my call. |
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 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by codychunn I would hope that every square inch of a book is as impactful as the next. Putting the focus on the front cover is very eBay-ish. Each page is a page that should be individually graded. Otherwise, one could argue that a dog-ear bend on page 17 isn't as impactful as the same defect on page 3. |
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Siggy Exactly. Defects are defects. It's why a 4.0 cover can look stunning and still be a 4.0. | ||
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You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by codychunn And you certainly have the right to make that argument. However, with third-party grading, the only opinions that matter are those of the graders. The standards of the grading company define the importance of specific defects. |
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 I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm sure there are times we, the consumers, miss things. No doubt. But I also feel occasiomally this grade shock is a result of enhancement of deductions to keep us hobbyists in line and ensure THEY and only THEY are the "experts". The mystery behind grade shock is powerful reminder only they know how to grade. And we better damn not forget it. |
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 Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DWeeB1967 Yup. I do this sometimes. Not always, but when I'm really fond of a book, I'm more likely to grade too loosely. |
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codychunn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Siggy Now you're drifting away from my point. Still, I would say a dog-ear on either cover should have more impact than the same bend on an interior page, and more impact on a story page than an ad page. Like a missing MVS from an ad/letters page has less impact than one from a story/panel page. |
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codychunn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DWeeB1967 ->>I use the Overstreet Guide to grading comics and thought I was being fairly conservative in my grading. On this book I was 2 whole points off. That is a huge difference, with most defects being on the rear cover. |
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 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
Here is one of my latest follies: Grader Notes from 11/26/2016 chip out right top of back cover light, multiple crease full top of front cover breaks color spine stress lines breaks color tape stain bottom of back cover  Notes: spine stress & small wear bottom spine breaks color, tiny chip top spine tiny edge wear & few small creases to cover breaks color front cover small tape stain bottom back cover, tiny stain top right corner front cover thin chip top right back cover long bend-crease left back cover edge does not break color Let's hear it from the forum, which grade is more correct? |
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Scifinator Is it just me, or does this look like one of those (numerous) instances where CGC graded loose on an older comic...? |
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Scifinator Honestly, I thought 6.5 when looking at it along with the notes. | ||
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codychunn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Scifinator ->>The light creasing along the top, rounded/blunted top left corner, staple crease in the green at top staple, looks like 6 spine stress marks with an extra one in the watcher's armpit, mis-wrapped cover (are the staples at the fold or shifted away from spine?) I think prevent it from 7.5. Added to that the defects on rear cover I would say prevents it from 7.0. Depending on severity of rear cover defects could drop it another half point, 6.5. I would have been happy with the 7 on this one. |
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Briten private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd Give this man a Kewpie doll. |
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Silversorrow private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That tiny stain in the top right corner that CBCS saw and CGC didn't is probably the biggest reason for the grade differential. Stains seem to destroy grades in my experience, the grade gets hammered bigtime for them. Not that I agree with that btw, I think they take way too much off of a grade for stains, especially small ones. | ||
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 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Culmination of defects would be my guess for your grade shock. a 7.0 with multiple “minor” defects would seem strictly graded compared another 7.0 with fewer ,but more impactful defects. It’s just they way the numbers add up sometimes. | ||
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| As a general rule, if I acquire a cgc encased comic (with newer label), I always knock off 1 level so, honestly, I figured it was really a 6.5 that could use a press to enhance the appearance or "curb appeal", if you will. Figured it would come back at 7.0. I will say it again, this past year, the grades from CBCS are excruciatingly tight. Gives me real worry about the Magazines that I sent in Dec 2021 to be their test dummies. There is a real disconnect. Seems like the new grading mantra is a straight 'How low can I grade this' as opposed to a 'How high can I grade this, and still be correct'. Where have you gone @Sborock -gio A Forum turns its lonely eyes to you... Woo, woo, woo BTW, I do believe that @SteveRicketts did another piece of work here, that is again under-appreciated by the grading department. |
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by codychunn You may be shocked  Quote: Originally Posted by codychunn If I'm not mistaken, either would get a 0.5 from CGC and whatever grade CBCS gives for a missing MVS- Maybe I'm wrong on that. It would certainly impact a book's desirability, but it shouldn't impact the grade, IMO. |
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Scifinator maybe we're in a small camp on this one, but I agree, based on my last batch received. "Excruciatingly tight" was my impression as well, instead of the usual just "consistent" grading I've been used to over the years. | ||
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cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Back cover weighs as heavily as front cover; ANY cover damage is sane deduction. You also must look at every page; if you find a tear or pages stuck together or wrinkled or wavy…it’s all deductible. | ||
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codychunn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Scifinator ->>Mags are notoriously easy to spine stress. The least little pinch dings them up. The large format makes the corners extra-susceptible to damage. Best of luck! |
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 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by lawguy1977 Grading too low vs accepted standards is, put simply, poor grading. There is a perverse incentive that may not be apparent and may never be acted upon but still worth understanding. The incentive to intentionally under-grade. It may be counterintuitive but a grading company can potentially remedy a market perception issue by under-grading. How? Well, in theory it would work like this: * consistently under-grade books * buyers take notice * arbitrage opportunity to buy books with the label from the undergrader (let’s call Company “A”), crack and submit to the other grader (Company “Z”) for a more accurate (in this case higher) grade - profit The above would lead to increased sales prices for the Company A books (at a given grade). In theory, the pricing could (should) exceed pricing for Company Z label books in a respective grade. This could (should) lead to more buyer demand for Company A graded books. Of course it is back-asswards and circular logic. But the near-term impact would be to drive headline prices in-grade higher for Company A books. The counter of course is submitters pay the price during this under-grading period. That could (should) reduce submission volumes. If Company A was already facing too much demand vs capacity this might be fine near-term. But if the headlines and secondary market deals drive more acceptance and demand, it may be an acceptable sacrifice. Over time Company A can adjust grading back in-line with industry standard. |
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codychunn private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave |
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Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave I’d prefer a seemingly over strict grade if it’s honest and true to the condition vs the grossly over graded gift. I could also see a more recent sub with a stringent grade as good. Meaning the CBCS ship may have been sinking, on fire, and hurtling out of control with demand and backlog, but still able to do their jobs rather than push quantity and let things slide. |
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Grade shock. I love that term. Personally, I do believe that defects occurring on the back cover carry less weight than if they were on the front. I have a few books with small back cover tears from when they used to used metal bands to bind books for shipment. If the same tear was on the front, I believe they would have graded lower. |
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