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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
"When old books hit record sales it's always a CGC label so I think people equate the two."

In general, CGC has had a 15 year headstart. This is why the majority of older books are in CGC slabs because they were the only game in town at the time (PGX doesn't count).

Third party grading originated out of a need to impartially grade and assess vintange/older books. I would hazard a guess that a very significant percentage of important/key vintage books were graded by CGC when there was no other choice.

So, this is exactly why sales records and news about vintage books will likely carry a CGC label...they have the luxury of being first.....for a long time.
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would be nice to have a snugger fit. Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC

So, this is exactly why sales records and news about vintage books will likely carry a CGC label...they have the luxury of being first.....for a long time.

Of course. I was just pointing out the reality of it. People see the CGC label, not any of the others.

But even in the current day, these high quality collections get sent to CGC (like Promise), instead of to the other companies, and despite their botched up efforts with overgrading and missed cover replacements, the marketing hype shows CGC labels. As much as I dislike them and certainly don't trust them.. they will always have the name recognition working for them. They will always, in general, be worth more because of it.
Post 52 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC

So, this is exactly why sales records and news about vintage books will likely carry a CGC label...they have the luxury of being first.....for a long time.

Of course. I was just pointing out the reality of it. People see the CGC label, not any of the others.

But even in the current day, these high quality collections get sent to CGC (like Promise), instead of to the other companies, and despite their botched up efforts with overgrading and missed cover replacements, the marketing hype shows CGC labels. As much as I dislike them and certainly don't trust them.. they will always have the name recognition working for them. They will always, in general, be worth more because of it.


It would be interesting to know, historically speaking, if a #2 marketshare company has ever overtaken the #1 company. I believe Pepsi or Dr. Pepper was first to market before Coca Cola but I believe Coca Cola is the #1 soft drink company...I could be wrong though.
Post 53 IP   flag post
would be nice to have a snugger fit. Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC

So, this is exactly why sales records and news about vintage books will likely carry a CGC label...they have the luxury of being first.....for a long time.

Of course. I was just pointing out the reality of it. People see the CGC label, not any of the others.

But even in the current day, these high quality collections get sent to CGC (like Promise), instead of to the other companies, and despite their botched up efforts with overgrading and missed cover replacements, the marketing hype shows CGC labels. As much as I dislike them and certainly don't trust them.. they will always have the name recognition working for them. They will always, in general, be worth more because of it.


It would be interesting to know, historically speaking, if a #2 marketshare company has ever overtaken the #1 company. I believe Pepsi or Dr. Pepper was first to market before Coca Cola but I believe Coca Cola is the #1 soft drink company...I could be wrong though.

I think Coke is the #1 pop (soda for the weirdos) but as for companies, I think PepsiCo could be larger due to the brands it owns. It was at some point anyway.

As for your question, there was a time when Apple struggled behind Microsoft.
Post 54 IP   flag post
I'm good with splotches. Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
How about Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler.
Our predecessors were stuck with their unreliable crap for 50 years and forced to eat their crap.

Then the Asian companies rolled in with reliability and forced them to fix their sh#t and uncaring ways.

We need that in this industry to stop the incompetence from these two companies. Competition does that. Else they'll just keep doing what they do. Well keep complaining and nothing changes. It's unacceptable from both. Fix the systemic problems companies. Fix em
Post 55 IP   flag post


TRA LA LA esaravo private msg quote post Address this user
CGC doesn’t always sell for more than a comparable book in a CBCS slab, even at auctions. Check out the current Comic Link auction. Two 5.0 copies of X-Men #101. The CGC even has better page quality, but the current bids are $72 for the CGC, and $111 for the CBCS. There are, however, 7 days left to bid.
Post 56 IP   flag post
PLOD theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros
As for your question, there was a time when Apple struggled behind Microsoft.

On PC, they always have. Much as Windows has always struggled to capture a meaningful smart phone market.
Post 57 IP   flag post
PLOD theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
How about Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler.
Our predecessors were stuck with their unreliable crap for 50 years and forced to eat their crap.

Then the Asian companies rolled in with reliability and forced them to fix their sh#t and uncaring ways.

They have different market shares, though. For example, if you're looking to buy a truck, you're probably going to look at one of the Big 3. If you're looking for a car, you'll probably be looking at Honda, Toyota, Volvo, etc. American automakers have been moving towards jeeps and trucks because their cars generally can't match import performance/safety.
Post 58 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
For those unaware. There is nuance here but Apple was a helpful nuisance to Microsoft at the time. Barely a competitive speck overall. Things change, sometimes rapidly.

https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech-0806/amp
Post 59 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
How about Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler.
Our predecessors were stuck with their unreliable crap for 50 years and forced to eat their crap.

Then the Asian companies rolled in with reliability and forced them to fix their sh#t and uncaring ways.

They have different market shares, though. For example, if you're looking to buy a truck, you're probably going to look at one of the Big 3. If you're looking for a car, you'll probably be looking at Honda, Toyota, Volvo, etc. American automakers have been moving towards jeeps and trucks because their cars generally can't match import performance/safety.


Relatively few cars are sold anymore. At least not profitably. Everything is SUV, crossover, etc.

Japanese woke up the big 3 in the 80s. Response was significant. Shook up the industry (for the better, overall). Japanese leadership gap is now fully closed. Pretty even playing field globally today.
Post 60 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
As for CBCS and CGC if someone feels CBCS puts out a more strictly graded (lower grades) product, awesome. Buy up the big $ books and flip them into CGC cases and sell them at a big, nearly risk-free profit. On big $ books, you could even do it all express and avoid the wait time.

I have a feeling anyone undertaking this endeavor would be disappointed.
Post 61 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
. Great discussion .
Post 62 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
@esaravo I agree. Our pal @scifinator has a thread with highest sales for books that often shows CBCS outselling CGC.

Oh, and has anyone seen a CGC signed copy of Marvel Tales # 106 come anywhere close to what my CBCS copy sold for last year?


Post 63 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
To put some perspective on this.

If there was only 10,000,000 slabbed comics out there in the entire collecting market. I'd bet the distribution would look something like this:

8,000,000 CGC
1,250,000 CBCS
500,000 PGX
250,000 other

If accurate...that's a striking reality.
Post 64 IP   flag post
Collector southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
At age 50, if I bought a marvel tales for $2750.

I'd probably be dead before I could get my money back let alone turn a profit.

There are books one can pay so much for that they will end up taking to the grave with them.
Post 65 IP   flag post
I'm good with splotches. Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
They have different market shares, though. For example, if you're looking to buy a truck, you're probably going to look at one of the Big 3. If you're looking for a car, you'll probably be looking at Honda, Toyota, Volvo, etc. American automakers have been moving towards jeeps and trucks because their cars generally can't match import performance/safety


All I meant with the example is competition stimulates improvement. Ford, GM, Chrysler didn't care what they put out. Didn't care if there were lemons or reliability. Then someone overseas came in and forced them to care or they take a big hit. CBCS we all complain about CS for years. It is indisputable and it is unacceptable. And yet what do we do? We keep going to them. Or we go to the other guys who are equally a mickey mouse organization in different ways.

My point is if we keep going to these two, why would they care about their defective aspects? No competition = no care = no threat of being buried.

I'm kinda sick of shenanigans from both and yet..... I have little choice in the slab world. Much like if you wanted to drive in the 70s/80s you had to go to a car company that didn't give a rats ass
Post 66 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
They have different market shares, though. For example, if you're looking to buy a truck, you're probably going to look at one of the Big 3. If you're looking for a car, you'll probably be looking at Honda, Toyota, Volvo, etc. American automakers have been moving towards jeeps and trucks because their cars generally can't match import performance/safety


All I meant with the example is competition stimulates improvement. Ford, GM, Chrysler didn't care what they put out. Didn't care if there were lemons or reliability. Then someone overseas came in and forced them to care or they take a big hit. CBCS we all complain about CS for years. It is indisputable and it is unacceptable. And yet what do we do? We keep going to them. Or we go to the other guys who are equally a mickey mouse organization in different ways.

My point is if we keep going to these two, why would they care about their defective aspects? No competition = no care = no threat of being buried.

I'm kinda sick of shenanigans from both and yet..... I have little choice in the slab world. Much like if you wanted to drive in the 70s/80s you had to go to a car company that didn't give a rats ass


This is a reality of any industry where there is little to no competition. In the slabbing industry, let's face it, it's a virtual monopoly. I believe CBCS is the best company on the market for the core product but is severely lacking in its peripheral products namely CS. They seem to be happy at #2 and probably believe they'll always be at #2. CGC is at #1 and likely do not consider CBCS a threat at all. This is probably why CGC has no motivation to invest in any improvements on anything.

While this industry has "competitors" there is really no competition.....and all the "competitors" seem to be fine with that.
Post 67 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
CGC clearly did invest, heavily. That is why they pick up the phone and why their TATs are where they are (not bad).

Also why their QC in moderns and high volume suffered. Big ramp in hiring deployed to satisfy demand.

Their pricing reflects willingness to battle to hold share. Otherwise they would have spiked prices to same extent as as their costs surely spiked.
Post 68 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
@Davethebrave Yes, you're right about that. They seemed to have hired bodies to address the influx of submissions during the boom. QC was impacted negatively, anecdotally anyway, it seems.

It feels like CGC's investment was motivated by market pressure and not competitive pressure. Not sure if that's a relevant observation or not. It seems CGC feel and behave as if they have no competition, no threat at all. This is more a statement on the zeal of their competitors than of CGC.
Post 69 IP   flag post
It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
It's quite possible I'm talking out of my @ss on this. lol!
Post 70 IP   flag post
I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
This is probably why CGC has no motivation to invest in any improvements on anything.


This seems true for the most part but it looks like they're introducing a new magazine slab in the next month or so and the existence of CBCS has led them to offer free grader's notes.
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
@flanders Great observation!
Post 72 IP   flag post
The apple sauce and pudding were the best part... Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
Cgc Graders notes that are non existing above a 9.2 and the ones that do have notes suggest pressing will fix the issue. At least cbcs tells you how it really is.....
Post 73 IP   flag post
Collector Drogio private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
As for CBCS and CGC if someone feels CBCS puts out a more strictly graded (lower grades) product, awesome. Buy up the big $ books and flip them into CGC cases and sell them at a big, nearly risk-free profit. On big $ books, you could even do it all express and avoid the wait time.

I have a feeling anyone undertaking this endeavor would be disappointed.


I’ve always thought of doing this. Grabbing CBCS 9.6s whose cgc counterparts go for 5x more. Crack, press and re-slab in CGC case.

The problem is I’d want to be able to examine the book in person to give the best possible chance at a 9.8. Cant trust ebay photos…And I rarely see CBCS cases in the wild…and conventions just over price everything.
Post 74 IP   flag post
Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
QC was impacted negatively, anecdotally anyway, it seems.

Nothing anecdotal about it. I went for quite a while with very few returns for CGC - just a hair in a seal and a couple cracked cases. Then it was like night and day. All of a sudden I was sending back roughly 50% of my submissions (seriously, 50%) with a bunch of cracked cases and what looked like waterspots on the inside of the cases, and all kinds of crap. Almost all of it was crazy obvious, to the point where had anyone looked at them even a little they would have never been shipped out that way. Add to that, it was as much of a nightmare getting hold of CS at CGC then as it is getting CS at CBCS now. It really, Really sucked, and it's why I still don't use CGC unless they have a signing that I can't pass up.
Post 75 IP   flag post
I'm good with splotches. Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd
All of a sudden I was sending back roughly 50% of my submissions (seriously, 50%) with a bunch of cracked cases


They seriously need to ante up hiring or contracting out a packaging engineer and do ISTA testing.
I have it done often in my company for parts that I have sent out.

There are dozens and dozens of businesses that will charge a flat fee for the design and release of packaging.
But McFarlane & Brit little skits are a far better marketing event than a notification of hiring packaging engineers. So ... nahhh... not doing it.
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Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd
All of a sudden I was sending back roughly 50% of my submissions (seriously, 50%) with a bunch of cracked cases


They seriously need to ante up hiring or contracting out a packaging engineer and do ISTA testing.
I have it done all the time in my company for parts that I have sent out.

There are dozens and dozens of businesses that will charge a flat fee for the design and release of packaging.
But McFarlane little skits are a far better marketing event than a notification of hiring packaging engineers. So ... nahhh... not doing it.

It had to have been something in packaging. Either a new procedure that wasn't working or a bad batch of parts for slabs that got past QC. The cracked slabs ALL had the same defects. Crack on the upper left corner or a crack on the right edge in the middle. Every. Single. One. Multiple submissions. And I had them coming in for a couple of months like that. Literally dozens of returns because of these cracks. Whatever the problem was, they've fixed it now, which is a relief. Still, I just can't believe they had materiels and/or procedures that bad and didn't pick up on it for weeks.
Post 77 IP   flag post
I'm good with splotches. Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd
It had to have been something in packaging. Either a new procedure that wasn't working or a bad batch of parts for slabs that got past QC. The cracked slabs ALL had the same defects. Crack on the upper left corner or a crack on the right edge in the middle. Every. Single. One. Multiple submissions. And I had them coming in for a couple of months like that. Literally dozens of returns because of these cracks. Whatever the problem was, they've fixed it now, which is a relief. Still, I just can't believe they had materiels and/or procedures that bad and didn't pick up on it for week


It happens all the time, still, to me with CGC.
Another aspect that I, again, say is absolutely unacceptable as a business entity.
It is unacceptable; and is what the mickey mouse club would design.
My dashboard is a plethora of "Manufacturing Errors" which of course is returns due to breakage, cracks and unfixable interior scuffs.
Ask yourself - is that how a well run business operates? No it is not
Post 78 IP   flag post
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