How “Key” is a “Key issue”? Your opinion?18560
 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In your opinion; What constitutes a “Key”? I’m looking Non spec related opinions. My opinion is a “true Key” introduces a character, story, or concept that becomes popular or more desirable on its own merit and or evolves the medium. Looking at Key Collector I can give some debatable keys. 1st would be ASM 1 (2014) 1st Cindy Moon who later becomes Silk and ASM 4 (2014) as “the 1st appearance of Silk”. Both note worthy as they introduce a character that expands the Spider-Verse and leads to multiple solo series’s. There is some spec involved in Silk but I believe Silk is making way on her own. And the sketchy one FCBD Guardians of the Galaxy 1 features the death of Peter Parquagh Spider-Man of the earth 1602 reality. This one I don’t buy. This issue was part of a multi series spider-verse cross over that spanned a ludicrous amount of issues with a convoluted reading order. It’s labeled as key, but to what extent? Unless we see 1602 spidey resurrected and making waves I don’t see it. What are your Key thoughts? |
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 Collector
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bythegram private msg quote post Address this user | |
| “Key” is relative I think. Everyone has different collections, some more niche than others. Someone might collect spidey related deaths. If so that Guardians issue might constitute more of a “key”. I agree that the first appearances are typically more sought after “keys” though. If I had to put a definition to it, a key is an issue in which something of significance occurs. Just my two cents |
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 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not sure if my ramblings constitute an answer but, here goes... Unfortunately key is thrown around a lot to sell books. Honestly I lost track on how many suppossed keys there are. Rehash characters annoy me the most. Virus is a character I invested some cash in and what a bust..... |
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| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I consider any 1st appearance a key. I just hang onto them and occasionally a character hits the media, goes up in value. Deaths of characters, costume changes, not keys to me. Occasionally a cover is, or acts like a key, value wise. How many times has Superman been killed anyways? |
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 Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I agree that 'key' is relative and subjective. Some things are easy for everyone to agree on, like first appearances of popular characters and early works by major writers/artists. There are storylines that have significance, but some people question whether they should be 'key' or not. Then there are first cover appearance and first appearance in costume and costume change and a book that sneaks past every editor/review and gets published with some overly colourful language and on and on. I think 'key' falls into 3 categories: keys we can all agree on, keys that are bandied about in order to sell books, and keys that mean something to the owner of the book. |
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 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Other keys are first work on a title from comic book creators like Miller's first daredevil. Classic covers like hulk 340 Comic book history involving comics in soti ect. Many different books are keys. Up to the individual collector if they want that specific key in the back issue market if not originally bought at time of release |
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| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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SixgunSamurai private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by doog I’d agree that these aren’t necessarily keys, but can be. First appearance of Daredevil’s armor suit? Not a key. First red costume Daredevil? Key. First Iron Spider? Not a key. First black suit Spidey? Key. Death of Batman? Not a key. Death of Bucky? Key. Death of Gwen Stacy? Key. My friend and I have been discussing this recently and we question the validity of What If as first appearance keys. “What if Jane Foster was Thor” is called a key as the first appearance of Jane Foster as Thor... but that’s not the first appearance of 616 Jane Foster as Thor. |
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 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For me, the key is whether the “key”impacts culturally and sustainably or temporarily. See? So it really depends on the mythos. More likely a book from the archetypes (Superman and Batman) will be keys, since they influenced other areas of superhero comics as a media form. Covers, non-character introductions (eg kryptonite, locations) are more important from them than modern “variant x” key. Often some overlap with radio/comic strip media intros. More about world building (in-myth) and genre-building (in-media). In most cases it is hard to measure impact absent passage of time. Flash-in-pan character “X” is not a “key” to me. Needs to be sustained or foundational. So my definition is broader and narrower. I just can’t consider a generally unimportant character introduction a “key”… |
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| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Briten private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Any comic book issue sold on Ebay is a key. Lol. | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Briten The ones that crack me up are the items where it's clearly just a template applied to all comics and 'KEY' is something on the template. It just says KEY, almost always in CAPs, with no explanation as to how the book achieved its alleged KEY status. |
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| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Whammykablam private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It's notable enough. | ||
| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I will disagree with the sentiment that any and all first appearances are keys. I've seen too many sellers/flippers/profiteers/dregs of society try to play that card. Key Collector also tries to hype this stuff up. First appearance of Shotgun? Hell no, not a key no matter how much I try to hype up the character.  First appearance of Dakota North? Maybe a key to the seven people who remember the character.  First appearance of Vision? Key.  It's going to come down to everyone's interpretation of what a key is. I do believe we have the established key issues. I'm not saying that Shotgun or Dakota North don't have the potential to be key issues in the future, but as it stands right now, not keys. Costume changes, various characters taking on the mantle of an established character, certain storylines or deaths can be key. As some have mentioned, DD's red suit, death of Gwen Stacy, death of Jason Todd, some of the new Robins that pop up, Days of Future Past storyline, etc. Does the particular issue have some actual bearing on the title or characters moving forward? I start drawing the line at bullshit like first solo series (Wonder Man), first in-continuity appearance (Firestar & Harley Quinn), the extreme stretch of really wishing something was a mega key (Wolverine #80 w/ a test tube labeled X23), or some random first meeting between characters (Power Pack #46 when the PP meet the Punisher). There may be some leeway with first SA appearance of a GA character. Maybe I'm just too cynical with the hobby right now. |
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| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Murm private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @southerncross Classic covers like hulk 340 I agree that classic covers are key a few more that would qualify: Silver Surfer #4 - Thor cover Captain America #241 - Punisher cover Captain America Annual #8 - Wolverine cover |
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Collector
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SixgunSamurai private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The only “first meetings” I can think of off the top of my head that I might think are keys are Hulk-Thing and Wolverine-Sabretooth because those are major rivalries and neither character first appeared in the other’s book. | ||
| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't want to brag, but cashiers are always checking me out.
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power_struggle55 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| it varies. even though its not a super important, popular series. But the power rangers comics do have keys. Keys to me is debut of a certain character or event. what could be key for someone but not for another. someone might think debut of a character most never heard of a key if it has a fanbase |
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| Post 15 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SixgunSamurai When a meeting between characters is significant moving forward and those characters develop a history/rivalry together, then I agree that would constitute a key. Random meeting between characters that is only repeated during tiresome major crossover events? Who cares? Not key. |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Murmonster Classic covers can absolutely be keys, to include Modern classic covers like the ones mentioned above. They're not all G.A./S.A. |
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| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Key will maintain its desirability after the hype train has rolled over it's corpse. Non-key....while people are interested in the corpse and may come and gawk at it so its "value" while lower than the peek is high than before the train pulled into town has none the less lost most if not all its desirability...anyone for Ghost from the Antman movie??? |
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| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KatKomics I thought ghost was coming back as part of thunderbolts? |
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| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Thelastpearce private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A key is no longer the death of a character, as long as they keep bringing them back. Eventually you would get 1st death, 2nd death, etc. It also is no longer an event that changes a character's life, as that too can be ret-conned. These days, keys are older books that introduce a character or characters that mean something in the long run, anything new or newer is simply a speculation and usually subject to FOMO. | ||
| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
 I have not set up at a con since 2029.
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PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HulkSmash Is this the 2nd book you referenced?  |
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| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The terms "key" and "grail" are two of the most incorrectly used terms in comic book collecting today. | ||
| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Is the term "key" subjective? If so, we'll never agree on what books are "key". If it's objective, then we need to nail down a definition. |
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Bronte Yup. As far as I know, that is the case. |
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| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector*
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In today’s hobby it comes across that the term “key” means any book that gets tied to a movie or TV announcement that can be flipped for a quick profit. That isn’t what it used to mean though. | ||
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Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @ComicHoarder yes that is it. I have not read it nor do I own it, but was one of many many “keys” on Key Collector that raised an eyebrow. | ||
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Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GACI would say it is not subjective. The problem I see while I have been using Key Collector is that extremely minor details are noted as some sort of key moment. That is why I asked the question. We have our obvious keys that redefine genres like AC1, AF15 that stated a Marvel flagship, HoS92 that introduced a very desirable character and so on. Then we these “keys” that are keys before they are even released with some being wildly obscure and sometimes moot. As far I can see; only time can tell what becomes a key, but I’ll happily provide overpriced drek to the market. |
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 I'm not a plagiarist. I'm also not illiterate.
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drmccoy74 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SixgunSamuraiI consider Hulk number 2 a key book because it's the first Green Hulk but don't consider Fantastic Four number 3 a key because its thier first uniforms and fantastical. People's opinions may differ as to what a key is unless it's obvious I guess. |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @drmccoy74 I believe that personal opinion plays a part in determining what is and is not a key in one's own PC. If there's an obscure character you enjoy and you really want that character's first appearance and you want to treat it as 'key,' then it's key. There's no harm in it so long as you have your reality check in place if it comes time to sell the book and no one else wants to pay an inflated price for your 'key.' |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd I wasn't aware... I think I'll stand by it though. Character is a nothing in publishing (could be wrong on that too!!) and lets give it a few years after the movie to see if any of it has legs Maybe Crossbones? or yellow jacket or Lawrence Fishburns character...was is Black Goliath?. There are many that only become "keys" because of a few minutes in a movie or show...no real legs, I think of keys almost like blue chip stock...there may be ups and downs but in the long run they have fundamental "value" based on a strong foundation weather it be story, character milestones, iconic covers etc. Alot of others are like tech stock...no one thinks they are in a bubble untill it bursts! Maybe a few will move to blue chip stock but many more will be penny stock (Nokia, Blackberry etc) |
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