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Comic Link - X-men 13 Restored18431

Collector* Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Last night a X-men 13 restored label 6.0 sold for just over $200.00. That’s less than half the FMV of a blue label 6.0. Since I generally don’t follow purple label books I was wondering if that’s “normal” pricing for a book with color touch?

Link to the book
Comic Link X-men 13 color touch
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Collector QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user
PLODs usually sell for about 50% of FMV, some exceptions are keys or books with easily removed resto that won't kill the grade.
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TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Yes, pretty typical.

Exception is if pieces added, or extensive/pieces added, which hits value very hard (sometimes you will be at 10% of FMV for the grade).
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Collector jake private msg quote post Address this user
Depends. That strike price was similar to a 2.5 FMV. My personal metric for restored is a 1-1.5 grade drop in price, so in this case, I would expect between 4.5-5 FMV. I noticed that with Showcase 22 restored 5.5. It sold for what a 0.5 FMV would have sold for. It might be a couple of factors, such as a softening in the market. Or people's disposable incomes are going elsewhere since people are going out more. Last week, I was at a football game and comedy club and both were packed.
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Collector Murmonster private msg quote post Address this user
I sell purples at 50% FMV sold this IM 1 for $350 when FMV was $700


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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8. xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
Past forum threads suggested 50% but there's variability, of course. I think keys hold up better and X-Men 13 would be borderline IMO.
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TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
To my point above, an AC1 sold (restored 8.5) that had pieces added on CC for $350k. A bargain. That is the FMV % death knell / ceiling created for books - pieces added. About 5-10% of in-grade FMV in that case.

I remember a Hulk 1 linked to on here for $500k (I think restored 9.6). Pieces added again. I would be surprised if it breaks / broke $50-$75k. I get it - at those price points the pieces added calls into question originality in a way that color touch generally doesn’t.

Personally I think there isn’t enough disclosure around restoration details in those cases. For that reason I love CGC conserved books (would pay up to 70-80% of FMV - because visual appeal is not improved, just maintaining integrity of the book’s stricture) and restored books that are only small amounts of color touch.

I even prefer trimmed over pieces added because to me trimmed can be treated more like damage that at least (sometimes) looks good - it isn’t creating an unknown on originality.
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Looking at actual sales of restored books shows that a consistent percentage of restored vs unrestored does not exist. there are a lot of factors that influence that percentage. And at it's simplest, that percentage represents buyers perception of at what price a restored both is "worth it".

Age of the book (collectors accept restoration on old books better than newer), how expensive the book (a $10 book with color touch is a $1 book), scarcity of the book (if you never see the book for sale, you get less picky), degree and type of restoration all play into the value equation. But ONE THING stands WAY TALLER than any other:

What is the grade of the restored book?

The HIGHER that grade of a restored book, the SMALLER the percentage of unrestored that restored book will bring. Amazing Fantasy 15 is a favorite example of mine because there are lots of documented sales of both restored and unrestored copies in nearly all grades.

In the lowest grades, very high percentage of unrestored is often paid for restored. This month - Sept 2022- someone paid $19,200 for a CGC 2.0, slight amateur restored. Also this month someone paid $21,600 for a CGC 2.0 unrestored. The $21,600 one could argue was a bit low, the 90 day GPA average is $25,200. Either number, those are way higher than the 50% guideline people like to use.

But lets move up to the top of the grade chain. AF 15 in unrestored 9.6 sold for 3.6 million. A restored 9.6 sold for $52,800. That's less than 2% that a restored copy fetched of unrestored.

The reason has nothing to do with the type of restoration here. It's a value equation. If the formula of 50% was accurate, then the restored copy would be worth 1.8 million. But that would be an incredibly STUPID price to pay. Because for 1.8 million one could certainly acquire a 9.4 copy - probably with a lot of money left over.

So the question that collectors are asking when looking at high grade restored copies is "what would that price get me in unrestored?". I personally would rather have a 4.5-5.0 unrestored of AF 15 rather than 9.6 restored. And it just so happens $53K falls in the range of 4.5-5.0.

Factor into this that sometimes buyers pay way too much for a given book. Maybe they are new and don't know better. Maybe they got caught up in the bidding. And sometimes someone gets lucky and gets a great deal. GPA is a great tool, giving us actual sales in real time. But that leads to individual book comparisons looking weird sometimes. In the norm, 5.5's don't sell for more than 6.0's. But they might on any given day.

So there is no easy formula. But the trend is often more than 50% in the lowest grades and way less than 50% in high grades.
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TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
The high grade restored copies you cite are almost always (or always) moderate to extensive with pieces added.

In other words, much of their covers are not original but rather facsimiles. That is another big reason why the percentage is so low.

Otherwise you could buy a rag copy, and just build it out to a 9.6 for $20,000 of labor and create a windfall.

If you find a 9.6 AF 15 that is just “slight color touch” it will go for a very, very high price.
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
@Davethebrave
Define "very, very high price".

It won't be 50% of unrestored, because that is 1.8 million - and for 1.8 million you could buy a 9.4 and have $$ left over.

Which would you want for nearly two million? A 9.4 and $$ left over - or "slight color touch" 9.6? How about 9.2 or 8.0?

Also, I've worked with people that had "slight color touch" removed from high grade books. A TMNT 9.2 for instance that after removal graded 6.0. the higher a grade of a restored book, the bigger the difference that slight color touch made. Three or four small color breaking spine ticks is gonna yank a 9.6 way, way down. Fixing a four inch color breaking crease wouldn't take much paint. So it's slight. But it's the difference between 9.6 and 6.0.

So I'm unconvinced. A slight color touch AF 15 might go for "very high price" - but that price is still going to be small fraction of a real 9.6.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murmonster
I sell purples at 50% FMV sold this IM 1 for $350 when FMV was $700


If it's color touch or even trimming...I'm game at 50% off.
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murmonster
I sell purples at 50% FMV sold this IM 1 for $350 when FMV was $700


If it's color touch or even trimming...I'm game at 50% off.


I don't feel that way about trimming, but I agree on color touch.

But I am much more inclined to sell books with restoration raw. And typically around 1/2 of unrestored price. My own experience is that a much higher percentage of collectors that prefer slabbed comics are put off by restoration. Raw collectors seem more willing to say "that book looks nice and the price is great".

And this "give a book a chance to be looked at" is why CBCS doesn't have a purple label. Restored is noted on the label, but the label doesn't scream "something is wrong!!" by being a different color. So collectors are more likely to at least look.
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TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
@Davethebrave
Define "very, very high price".

It won't be 50% of unrestored, because that is 1.8 million - and for 1.8 million you could buy a 9.4 and have $$ left over.

Which would you want for nearly two million? A 9.4 and $$ left over - or "slight color touch" 9.6? How about 9.2 or 8.0?

Also, I've worked with people that had "slight color touch" removed from high grade books. A TMNT 9.2 for instance that after removal graded 6.0. the higher a grade of a restored book, the bigger the difference that slight color touch made. Three or four small color breaking spine ticks is gonna yank a 9.6 way, way down. Fixing a four inch color breaking crease wouldn't take much paint. So it's slight. But it's the difference between 9.6 and 6.0.

So I'm unconvinced. A slight color touch AF 15 might go for "very high price" - but that price is still going to be small fraction of a real 9.6.


All the 9.6 restored copies of mega-keys I’ve ever seen are pieces added.

Can you find me an example where the 9.6 restored copy is not pieces added on a mega key?

The ones that are 10% of FMV are all “pieces added” which is dramatically different than color touch. So a very, very high price for “slight color touch” is imo 20-30% of FMV. Of course just a guess. Again, I can reference a floor when “pieces added” books (which have significant elements of recreated product and more importantly, hard to know how much originality) sell for 10% of FMV…
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Collector cesidio private msg quote post Address this user
Some collectors and I'm one of them wouldn't touch a restored comic with some one else's 10 foot pole. Restored comics are as tricky to to price as non us comics. Just my opinion.
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TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
One of the best things about restored comics is that you get most of the downside priced in.

Setting aside pieces added (mainly because hard to know starting point) many restored books are getting dinged for tape, or markers coloring in “color breaks” etc. If the issue is intrinsically valuable, not because of a silly number attached, or hype, spec or false scarcity, you still have a copy of that book. That doesn’t change.

Disdain will likely diminish as the hobby matures. The broad brush “PLOD” and other silliness is unlikely to persist. It means there are likely real opportunities in the restored copies that have their originality largely intact.
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TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Full disclosure, I don’t own restored books but have tried to add some as I think they can represent good value.
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Collector Gaard private msg quote post Address this user
The fact that CT doesn't bother me in the least, leads me to getting super deals adding comics to my pc. I'm not sure it'd be wise to buy PLODs with the intention of selling them, seems too risky. But buying for your pc - saved me buku bucks.

Bought this DD for under $100 because of CT. Had @IronMan clean/press it for me. Came back 8.0. Wonderful addition to the pc.

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