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Bought two signature series books off ebay. both arrived cracks corners18425

Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
Because im sending them in for signature series, they will be re-slabbed.

Books undamaged, but what makes this mildly infuriating is when I emailed the comic book store/seller (meaning that's all he sells on ebay)...

Well, here's the message exchange.

"Hey - the first book arrived but the top right and bottom left slab is cracked with pieces of the plastic floating around inside the mylar sleeve. book is undamaged though. since im sending it in to get signed, it will be re-slabbed for free, so no worries. The problem is that even though you wrapped the comic in bubble wrap, you only did it top over bottom, not side over side also. That allowed the slab to slide out the sides and hit the wall of the box making it vulnerable. To avoid this next time, you should wrap it side over side also."

Two days later - NO REPLY. Then my second book arrived. (they were purchased separately).

New book - arrived with the same problem. Bubble wrapped top over bottom, but not side over side. And yes - same damage. Crack corner with floating plastic inside slab sleeve.

I send a 2nd message. Here it is.

"Hey man, you really need to think about packing these slabs better. The bottom corner of the case was cracked. Again I’m sending it in to get signed so they’ll be re-slabbing it for free. But if I wasn’t, I’d be sending both books back to you at your cost. You REALLY SHOULD wrap them side over side as well as top over bottom."

His reply: "ive been doing this for 5 years and have always wrapped everything the same, i apologize that the book was damaged but i do everything in my power to stop that. Whatever happens to that book once it reaches the post office is on them. i WILL continue to wrap packages correctly, but Thank you for the concern."

I dont bother replying. Its his money to lose. But you know, he's "been doing this for 5 years"...

If the books were damaged, or if i werent sending them in for signature, he'd be paying for their return shipping and for refund...

5 whole years. I have underwear older... I just SMH and think "idiot"...


First book.




Second Book


Post 1 IP   flag post
Collector steveinthecity private msg quote post Address this user
If you have enough time to find replacement copies I’d go ahead and send them back.
Post 2 IP   flag post
Collector andy49 private msg quote post Address this user
at least you know what to expect if you buy from him again
Post 3 IP   flag post
TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Leave neutral feedback if you’re confident it was poor packing that caused the damage.

Doesn’t justify negative feedback if they will accept return at their expense (my opinion).
Post 4 IP   flag post
Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
@steveinthecity thought about it then decided not to. dont want to go through the hassle.
Post 5 IP   flag post
Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020. HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user
I’ve had the same “I have been doing it this way for so long” and “it’s not my fault” response on damaged books and they are always ass hats about it. When really all I’m doing is giving them proof that these were actually damaged during shipping so returns and shipping claims can handled properly.
Post 6 IP   flag post
TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
I had a seller ship books loose in the box (resulting in apparent damage) and then become irate when I left feedback on their approach.

Another jammed a book into a too small bag…

Not $5 books either.

I always provide an opportunity to remedy but not going to waste my time (beyond initial time wasted buying from those clowns).
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector ticktocktyler private msg quote post Address this user
Well, then the seller gets negative feedback. "Was this experience positive?". No not really. Nothing says "I love you" more than a big red check mark next to an otherwise perfect score. And score matters on eBay. More than me being polite a second time and trying to be nice about it. Plus, it tells other people what you told the seller: "Seller needs to up his game packing wise. Hope your books arrive safely."

I have been "lucky" and have always received books in bomb proof packing. To the point that I feel like I am performing surgery trying to release them from the packaging. Like an endless series of Russian nesting dolls and the prize is a comic book in the middle.
Post 8 IP   flag post
Collector* Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
@multi007 why didn’t you name the seller via their eBay ID in the thread?
Post 9 IP   flag post
Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
@HulkSmash same here. all i wanted to do was let the guy know that if he wraps them side over side , he would not lose money.

the guy is lucky for sure - i just dont have time to send these back and get new books to replace them. the deadline for signings are fast approaching.
Post 10 IP   flag post
Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
@Towmater i dont like to publicize when there wasnt a real loss to me. in this case, the cases will be replaced when they get signed again as no additional cost to me. so no need for me to put him on blast. imo
Post 11 IP   flag post
Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
@multi007
If this clown had been shipping slabbed books for 5 years he would know to wrap both top/bottom and side/side. No excuse for assuming that the slab itself is sufficient protection for shipping purposes, and I can promise you that was part of the reason why you got skimped on packaging: to save on materials. Cheapskate seller.
Post 12 IP   flag post
Collector ComicHoarder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
Leave neutral feedback if you’re confident it was poor packing that caused the damage.

Doesn’t justify negative feedback if they will accept return at their expense (my opinion).



IMHO, the seller deserves neg feedback under both items based on the simple fact that both slabs are cracked with floating shards touching the interior well, taking advantage of the buyer's desire not to return the slabs and his intent to dismiss the problems he created.

The books are going to br cracked so sigs but that does not mean that negligent picking & skating the issue knowing the buyer will keep the slabs anyway so he won't have to lose money on original & return shipping costs.

Shipping cracked slabs with floating shards can result in damage to the books themselves by SCS & shards scraping or worse, pinching the book.

This can happen in 2 ways-

1 -by the box being thrown around during shipping, which would not be unusual or very unlikely.

2-
Upon cracking after being thrown around in shipping cartons ,and/or even from the driver throwing or dropping the box onto Multi's doorstep, that causes further stress onto the damaged cases and the floating shards impact or scrape the books,

If damaged during shipping or cracking, Mulri absorbs the loss as the slabs were damaged upon shipment for the signnings.

Leaving the neg feedback will likely result in the sellers hand being forced to issue a partial refund, which would automatically remove the neg feedback, neg comment text fields and would also remove the negative impact on the sellers DSR; which is VERY important to a sellers items visibility/search results rankings.

@multi007 outright gave thr seller a pass on a chance of dealing with returns off the bat with his first message to the seller indicating they were bought to be cracked for sigs, thus the seller correctly assumed he could dodge 2 returns.

Multi should leave a neg comment indicating these facts noting the sellers responses dates to each message & content of messages.

Avoid any inflammatory remarks in the negs, give him 1/5 stars on each metric.

Keep all neg feedback factual, no insults etc as that violates ebay TOS & would allow the seller to call eBay and have the negs renoved.
Post 13 IP   flag post
TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
@ComicHoarder

You’re incorrect about policy, price adjustment etc. If negative feedback is viewed as blackmail/extortion for a price adjustment (if a return was offered) the seller will win. Partial refund also doesn’t remove neg feedback.

Of course someone can leave negative feedback but if seller offers refund and offers to make buyer whole, that is excessive.

Leaving neutral feedback still reduces the positive percentage, alerts other users, and leaves (in my opinion) the right message.

Finally, I agree seller is a jackarse. But if damage occurs in the future, they will be on the hook / have to deal with claims / will refund. The hypothetical need not apply here - books weren’t damaged and buyer is keeping them.

If I am buyer I would certainly request a partial refund but, again, if full refund proffered (and return shipping covered) worst I’d leave is neutral.
Post 14 IP   flag post
Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
.
Seasoned eBay sellers know not to argue with buyers. It usually results in a loss 🤦🏻‍♂️
Post 15 IP   flag post
Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
.
Seasoned eBay sellers know not to argue with buyers. It usually results in a loss 🤦🏻‍♂️

Yes. Been there. The bias toward buyers on eBay is very deeply entrenched. Some small improvements to how sellers are treated have been made recently, but it's still very heavily weighted in favour of buyers.
Post 16 IP   flag post
TL;DR Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck
.
Seasoned eBay sellers know not to argue with buyers. It usually results in a loss 🤦🏻‍♂️


Not when a refund is offered.

🤦‍♂️
Post 17 IP   flag post
Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
@ComicHoarder you’re not wrong. I bought the arrow book from you and you knew how to pack it well. I think we all do. This guy was just a butthead.

In his defense, he shipped the second book before I messaged him about the first book. (They were bought 2 days apart). So I wasn’t expecting the 2nd book to be packed better.

If the books were damaged in anyway, I’d be sending them back, no question. He got lucky. Twice. Cause I’m sending them in for a secondary signature. (I do wonder though if the existing cracks will “help” them crack the cases open?

He does need to pack better. His reply to me shows he won’t. The negative won’t change him. It would warn others though. But in 12 months, the negative drops off anyway.

And yea, eBay policy says you can’t say “give me a discount or I’ll leave you feedback”. eBay will remove the negative in that case. They call that “feedback extortion”.

I’ll avoid him from now on.
Post 18 IP   flag post
Collector ComicHoarder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
@ComicHoarder

You’re incorrect about policy, price adjustment etc. If negative feedback is viewed as blackmail/extortion for a price adjustment (if a return was offered) the seller will win. Partial refund also doesn’t remove neg feedback.

Of course someone can leave negative feedback but if seller offers refund and offers to make buyer whole, that is excessive.

Leaving neutral feedback still reduces the positive percentage, alerts other users, and leaves (in my opinion) the right message.

Finally, I agree seller is a jackarse. But if damage occurs in the future, they will be on the hook / have to deal with claims / will refund. The hypothetical need not apply here - books weren’t damaged and buyer is keeping them.

If I am buyer I would certainly request a partial refund but, again, if full refund proffered (and return shipping covered) worst I’d leave is neutral.


I wasnt 100% sure about the partial refund but thought that giving a partial refund wiped away any feedback and hit to a sellers' DSR.

I am aware of eBay's TOS on extorting sellers for partial refunds, as you said, Multi would have to be careful about getting the partial refund- and def not say "I'll neg you unless you give me a partial refund" or similiar.

If Multi plays this right, he will get a partial refund, if he wants that...and I think the seller deserves to cough up a few bucks for being such a hack.

If I were in @multi007 's shoes, I'd message the seller again and just tell him something like:

" I'd appreciate either a partial refund in the amount of ( ) for the damages as after thinking about it and a CGC dealer I know advising me on this matter, I don't want to take the chance of the books themselves being downgraded when they are graded again after being signed.... I plan on having both books reholdered, to avoid the chance of a possible downgrade, as the reholdering process will allow me to retain the same grades

If that isn't agreeable, I can't justify absorbing the cost of original shipping, return shipping, CGC's invoice fee and reholder fee on 2 slabs that were damaged due to inadequate packaging....etc etc etc"


Put in that situation, the seller will be looking at having to eat a full return for original and return shipping costs and the slabs sale prices and he would be getting back 2 slabs which he would have to either ship to CGC for reholdering or re-sell as they are at a signigiant discount via relisted at BIN's or in auction....or he could avoid coughing up the whole sale prices and just pay out the cost of reholdering + original and return shipping to CGC.
Post 19 IP   flag post
Collector ComicHoarder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by multi007
@ComicHoarder you’re not wrong. I bought the arrow book from you and you knew how to pack it well. I think we all do. This guy was just a butthead.

In his defense, he shipped the second book before I messaged him about the first book. (They were bought 2 days apart). So I wasn’t expecting the 2nd book to be packed better.

If the books were damaged in anyway, I’d be sending them back, no question. He got lucky. Twice. Cause I’m sending them in for a secondary signature. (I do wonder though if the existing cracks will “help” them crack the cases open?

He does need to pack better. His reply to me shows he won’t. The negative won’t change him. It would warn others though. But in 12 months, the negative drops off anyway.

And yea, eBay policy says you can’t say “give me a discount or I’ll leave you feedback”. eBay will remove the negative in that case. They call that “feedback extortion”.

I’ll avoid him from now on.


I am not sure what you mean with the question of yours I put in bold text above?

The negative to his DSR is removed after a year, but I havent heard of a negative feedback being removed by ebay after a year.

That said, a hit to a sellers DSR, if it pushes him to "below standard" or drops him from top rated to "above average (which is actually an average rating" than that will hurt his sales.

I went from "above" averge" to below standard for a few months bc I had a few late shipments....and bam, sales on things like $30 to $100 raw comic sets virtually died for my ebay store for months...soon as I regained top rated at the next quarterly review period, literally within 24 hours, I sold a Punisher 1-5 mini in VF to VF+ at my $99.99 BIN...that set had been listed at $99.99 for months, just had balls visibility due to my "below average" DSR rating.
Post 20 IP   flag post
Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
The bold was me thinking out loud that the case will be easy to crack open since it already has a crack.

Yes that’s what I meant. The DSR drops off.
Post 21 IP   flag post
Feel free to use my post as a checklist. multi007 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicHoarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
@ComicHoarder

You’re incorrect about policy, price adjustment etc. If negative feedback is viewed as blackmail/extortion for a price adjustment (if a return was offered) the seller will win. Partial refund also doesn’t remove neg feedback.

Of course someone can leave negative feedback but if seller offers refund and offers to make buyer whole, that is excessive.

Leaving neutral feedback still reduces the positive percentage, alerts other users, and leaves (in my opinion) the right message.

Finally, I agree seller is a jackarse. But if damage occurs in the future, they will be on the hook / have to deal with claims / will refund. The hypothetical need not apply here - books weren’t damaged and buyer is keeping them.

If I am buyer I would certainly request a partial refund but, again, if full refund proffered (and return shipping covered) worst I’d leave is neutral.


I wasnt 100% sure about the partial refund but thought that giving a partial refund wiped away any feedback and hit to a sellers' DSR.

I am aware of eBay's TOS on extorting sellers for partial refunds, as you said, Multi would have to be careful about getting the partial refund- and def not say "I'll neg you unless you give me a partial refund" or similiar.

If Multi plays this right, he will get a partial refund, if he wants that...and I think the seller deserves to cough up a few bucks for being such a hack.

If I were in @multi007 's shoes, I'd message the seller again and just tell him something like:

" I'd appreciate either a partial refund in the amount of ( ) for the damages as after thinking about it and a CGC dealer I know advising me on this matter, I don't want to take the chance of the books themselves being downgraded when they are graded again after being signed.... I plan on having both books reholdered, to avoid the chance of a possible downgrade, as the reholdering process will allow me to retain the same grades

If that isn't agreeable, I can't justify absorbing the cost of original shipping, return shipping, CGC's invoice fee and reholder fee on 2 slabs that were damaged due to inadequate packaging....etc etc etc"


Put in that situation, the seller will be looking at having to eat a full return for original and return shipping costs and the slabs sale prices and he would be getting back 2 slabs which he would have to either ship to CGC for reholdering or re-sell as they are at a signigiant discount via relisted at BIN's or in auction....or he could avoid coughing up the whole sale prices and just pay out the cost of reholdering + original and return shipping to CGC.



Valid points. I’m going to let this slide though. I could get some $ out of it, but that’s not my goal. Because I’m up against a clock, I’ve already sent the 2 books in for signature.

I did my part to warn him. He’ll learn the hard way eventually
Post 22 IP   flag post
Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by multi007
His reply: "ive been doing this for 5 years and have always wrapped everything the same, i apologize that the book was damaged but i do everything in my power to stop that.


Who knew wrapping side-to-side was a super-power?
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector southerncross private msg quote post Address this user
Bad sellers that don't pack right, never buy from them again.

I bought a slab book off a seller and they had the slab in a comic book style mailer.
No bubble wrap just the cardboard around the slab. I was astonished that the book survived without any broken or cracked case.

Comic book mailer is ok for books with backing boards and bags, not a slab.
Post 24 IP   flag post
Collector ComicHoarder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by multi007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicHoarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
@ComicHoarder

You’re incorrect about policy, price adjustment etc. If negative feedback is viewed as blackmail/extortion for a price adjustment (if a return was offered) the seller will win. Partial refund also doesn’t remove neg feedback.

Of course someone can leave negative feedback but if seller offers refund and offers to make buyer whole, that is excessive.

Leaving neutral feedback still reduces the positive percentage, alerts other users, and leaves (in my opinion) the right message.

Finally, I agree seller is a jackarse. But if damage occurs in the future, they will be on the hook / have to deal with claims / will refund. The hypothetical need not apply here - books weren’t damaged and buyer is keeping them.

If I am buyer I would certainly request a partial refund but, again, if full refund proffered (and return shipping covered) worst I’d leave is neutral.


I wasnt 100% sure about the partial refund but thought that giving a partial refund wiped away any feedback and hit to a sellers' DSR.

I am aware of eBay's TOS on extorting sellers for partial refunds, as you said, Multi would have to be careful about getting the partial refund- and def not say "I'll neg you unless you give me a partial refund" or similiar.

If Multi plays this right, he will get a partial refund, if he wants that...and I think the seller deserves to cough up a few bucks for being such a hack.

If I were in @multi007 's shoes, I'd message the seller again and just tell him something like:

" I'd appreciate either a partial refund in the amount of ( ) for the damages as after thinking about it and a CGC dealer I know advising me on this matter, I don't want to take the chance of the books themselves being downgraded when they are graded again after being signed.... I plan on having both books reholdered, to avoid the chance of a possible downgrade, as the reholdering process will allow me to retain the same grades

If that isn't agreeable, I can't justify absorbing the cost of original shipping, return shipping, CGC's invoice fee and reholder fee on 2 slabs that were damaged due to inadequate packaging....etc etc etc"


Put in that situation, the seller will be looking at having to eat a full return for original and return shipping costs and the slabs sale prices and he would be getting back 2 slabs which he would have to either ship to CGC for reholdering or re-sell as they are at a signigiant discount via relisted at BIN's or in auction....or he could avoid coughing up the whole sale prices and just pay out the cost of reholdering + original and return shipping to CGC.



Valid points. I’m going to let this slide though. I could get some $ out of it, but that’s not my goal. Because I’m up against a clock, I’ve already sent the 2 books in for signature.

I did my part to warn him. He’ll learn the hard way eventually


Long as you took pictures of the cracked slabs & the shipping package, it doesnt matter as far as getting a partial refund back, if you already sent them out for the signings.
Post 25 IP   flag post
Collector ComicHoarder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by multi007
The bold was me thinking out loud that the case will be easy to crack open since it already has a crack.

Yes that’s what I meant. The DSR drops off.


Thats what I thought you meant....

A slab being easier to crack open isnt a good thing, if the slab suffers SRS and/or new cracks appear enroute to your SS guy, and the books themselves get damaged either enroute to the SS faciliator or when they are cracked open, than you're screwed i.e. the seller can't be held responsible after 30 days from original delivery to you....let alone, after the slabs are shipped off to a 3rd party.
Post 26 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by multi007
Whatever happens to that book once it reaches the post office is on them.


This part concerns me. That's not the appropriate mindset of a seller. Whatever happens after it reaches your property is not the sellers concern. But the seller needs to take responsibility up to that point. I would probably ask the seller if he believes it is his responsibility to get it to my property undamaged.
Post 27 IP   flag post
Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by multi007
Whatever happens to that book once it reaches the post office is on them.


This part concerns me. That's not the appropriate mindset of a seller. Whatever happens after it reaches your property is not the sellers concern. But the seller needs to take responsibility up to that point. I would probably ask the seller if he believes it is his responsibility to get it to my property undamaged.

As a seller it is absolutely my responsibility to make sure an item reaches the buyer. If an item is delayed in transit (that happened one time during a flooding event) and the buyer asks me where the item is, I don't make some glib 'check the tracking yourself' reply. I check the tracking, I make inquiries, I report back to the buyer. This attitude that the instant an item leaves the seller's hands it's no longer their responsibility is ludicrous. It's also harmful to both parties. Having an understanding that the instant an item is paid for it no longer belongs to the seller and they just have temporary custody of someone else's property is helpful in understanding the seller's responsibilities. This is why I don't hold onto sold items for a week before I ship them out. It's also why I always have insurance to cover the cost of the item, including purchasing additional insurance if the free insurance included with shipping fees doesn't cover the entire cost.
Post 28 IP   flag post
The apple sauce and pudding were the best part... Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
@Byrdibyrd

Alas someone who gets it.....
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