SUPER harsh grading lately on Bronze age comics18419
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leelewis17 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Has anyone particularly noticed that grades have been incredibly harsh on bronze age comics recently? I got back an Amazing Spiderman 238 signed by JRJR that a reliable person estimated was a 7.5 - 8.0, BEFORE I GOT IT PRESSED BY THEM, that just came back as a 5.5!!! The notes were: "Spine stress breaks color Bottom right corner crease breaks color Surface wear front and back cover (that I can't see) - did they maybe do this in the pressing? Small stain on back left corner" As a reminder what their website says about a 7.0 to 5.5: 7.0 FINE / VERY FINE 6.5 FINE+ 6.0 FINE 5.5 FINE– This comic is definitely a read copy with handling wear, but can still be a very desirable copy. This could have one major defect like a larger piece out of the cover, a long tear or a detached centerfold. It has stress lines on the spine and creases from the opening and closing of the cover. This could have a light reading or subscription crease or a rolled spine, but is not damaged enough to reduce eye appeal dramatically. Some cover discoloration, fading in colors and soiling is allowed. The cover and/or inside pages could have some tears and/or folds. With the absence of many other defects, the cover can be detached from one staple, but cover cannot be completely detached from interior. Books with slightly brittle pages cannot grade higher than 6.5 and generally are even lower in grade. Pages and inside covers could be brownish but not brittle. Depending on the look of the comic, very small amounts of tape could be acceptable in this grade. So by this description I would easily say my description shouldn't be the LOWEST in a category that includes pieces MISSING FROM THE COVER, rolled spines, cover discoloration, tears, folds, and staple detachment. What is going on? I also got back two other books given an 8.5 that only had "spine stress breaks color" as the descriptions when 9.2-9.4 on the website says that you can have a spine tic that breaks color. This is the third straight pack that has returned that seemed WAY too harsh. Anyone else seeing this, or is it just me? |
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Front and back pictures/scans would be helpful. It's hard to comment on grade with no photos. | ||
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Bobashek private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I did a pressed and non-pressed order. The pressed order all had harsher grades than the non-pressed one. | ||
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Collector
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leelewis17 private msg quote post Address this user | |
  This is the 5.5 |
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Collector
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leelewis17 private msg quote post Address this user | |
 That is the “spine stress breaks color” in my ASM 316 that made it an 8.5. As I said both of these were pressed by them. |
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| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @leelewis17 - I have always felt that CBCS is more stringent and consistent on grading than cgc. It is a large part of why I decided to have my full permanent collect be graded by them. My recently received back submissions seem consistent to what I have been seeing from them over the past few years. On the other hand, can't begin to list cgc encapsulated comics that were obviously over graded to undeserving 9.6 and 9.8 levels. |
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| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There seems to be quite a bit of back cover staining, foxing, and/or dirt on that 5.5. | ||
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Collector
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leelewis17 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @scifinator, I am glad to hear that has been your experience, it just doesn't seem that the grades given recently match the description on their website of what that grade represents. All of these are for my PC, so I was mainly doing it just to preserve the signatures on the comics, but if I were going to try and resell that 238 I would be really disappointed. I mean, realistically I would crack it. | ||
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Looks to me like the Color Rub & crease on the bottom right front cover, the corner blunting on lower left cover, plus the stain on the lower left back cover are the main culprits. I think the biggest issue is the stain though. I can't say it should be be much higher or as low as a 5.5. Definitely doesn't look to be 8.5 - 9.4, just on the bottom right front cover alone. | ||
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 Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have been getting harsher grades lately on Bronze Age books in particular. I know they tend to go soft on G.A and S.A. books regularly, and I wonder if they also had slightly softer standards for B.A. books that they abandoned recently. | ||
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've found that this is a decent free tool to get estimates of grade when I am in doubt of my own 'skill' clickable text Hard to tell even from photos but I agree with @Scifinator Colour rub and crease get hit hard as do stains/foxing add in the blunted corner I'm always referring to my Overstreet grading guides ( 1st edition and 3rd) when trying to determine if a book is worth sending in I would say your reliable person under estimated the hit for the stain/foxing? without that 7 or 7.5 seemed attainable? |
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leelewis17 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, those things are there, but to be the lowest grade in a tier that include missing cover pieces and tears seems, again to be harsh. @DrWatson, the discoloration is mostly because of the shadow of my arm and a little glare from the can light, but there is a couple small spots on the top left corner. Thanks for the feedback, guys! | ||
| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That looks like a 5.5 to me, multiple creases that break color on the front right hand bottom of the cover. Here's a pic, not a good one of a bronze age 8.0 submitted just before the pandemic. Body difference in wear.   |
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| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @leelewis17 - Just some further feed back, on how CBCS feels about stains, here is one of my comics, that had no creases, color breaks, etc. Just stain that after press by CBCS was barely perceptible. Notes: 1&1/2" stain bottom right back cover & front cover light stain bottom left corner back cover & front cover  Additionally, here is how they treated the following: Notes: crease bottom left corner back cover barely breaks color spine stress front & back cover breaks color  Both of these were submitted in July of 2019. The Alpha Flight was pressed, the Aliens was not pressed. |
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leelewis17 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks for the further feedback. So it seems that maybe there isn’t a change in consistency of grading, but it seems CBCS’s description in their site of what is allowed in each grading tier is pretty far off from what they grade in practice. They probably ought to change that. | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd Anytime you have a change at the top, there can be a change in how particular defects affect a grade. That said, West and Steve had worked together so closely for so long that their interpretation of defects and grades shouldn't be that far off. |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
 Apparently, I am easily annoyed.
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Rbolton private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I recently received a twelve book submission back and I can honestly say that I do not agree with any of the grades they received. | ||
| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My guess is these books are getting junior graders. That and there is a disproportionate number of (junior graders) today and under significant pressure. Perhaps same issues as when CGC expanded their capacity. Both companies will use their more junior graders for certain books - modern/CA/BA. Just a thought. |
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| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave It is a possibility. Let's face it: The newbies have to start somewhere when it's finally time to fly solo, and they sure won't be handling the G.A. & S.A. books. |
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| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
 I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd @Byrdibyrd I agree! GA & SA books are a different beast. |
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| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I bet new graders start out in Modern, or maybe Copper, books. | ||
| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
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Apparently, I am easily annoyed.
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Rbolton private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Whatever the reasoning behind it, I paid for a professional service and feel like it was a waste of my hard earned money. I have collected and sold for around 30 years and feel I have a very good idea of what a comic will grade.. I have never been so disappointed with the grades these books received. That being said, I knew the risk going in and will chalk it up to a lesson learned. While I highly doubt I will use CBCS grading services again, I thoroughly enjoy the forums and it’s members! | ||
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etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I had a books from both companies come back with much lower grades than expected due to "staining" they don't mess around when it comes to foreign substances on books. So I was expecting that again, bit got a 7.5 on a book I just got back. | ||
| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Different age books are graded differently. Moderns are hit the hardest. Personally, I don't think non-color breaking creases should hold as much weight against the grade as they do. However, if they didn't, then we wouldn't be spending the money we spend on pressing services. I guess that's how the tail wags the dog. | ||
| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by leelewis17 Y’all realize they don’t enter EVERY defect. That takes too much time. They enter the most significant (typically) then there could be several other less significant defects that are not in the notes but still contributing to knocking down the grade further. Spine stress on white covers may be difficult to see with the naked eye…but pull out your loupes and look closer…I have a few Books like this ASM 238 From that same time period I thought would grade higher but they have white spines and got hit with the spine stress defects that are hard to see. But they are there upon closer inspey. You can’t go by just the graders notes…gotta look at many graded books. It is a learning experience for sure. |
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Collector
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Drogio private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by leelewis17 Do you mind showing us the back cover? |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 1) It's the stain 2) Both CGC and CBCS are in my and many others' opinion stricter than a year or two ago. 3) @Rbolton You won't be happier with CGC as far as strictness of grading. I am certain CGC is usually/generally stricter. 4) The leading theory on the why of grading companies being strict - and the one I believe makes the most sense - is all the new graders. You're the new guy or gal grading books. Haven't had your first annual appraisal. Others review your work. Do you want a reputation of being strict or loose? |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan It makes sense. Being a "stricter grader" seems to be a badge of honor in the industry. Some people almost seem to have an axe to grind about it. If you get enough new people in a department they can tend to influence the culture in a new direction more than they are influenced by the existing culture. New guy gives a strict grade, reviewer doesn't want to come off as a "loose" grader...it's time to buy those recently graded 6.0's! |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This whole discussion kinda leads to a conclusion about grading in general. Nicely put - it's all subjective. Not nicely put - it's all b.s. That said, when you enter the game of B.S. expect to win a few games and lose a few. Because in the end, it's all B.S. anyway. (I mean "Subjective" ) |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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Hexigore private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ahhh!! But it’s GOOD “B.S.” that gets people (flippers) paid and provides some form of security to those who use the service. Whether they agree with the end result or not, their cherished books are now protected. That has to be worth something, right? | ||
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