Love and Thunder what did you think18365
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Quote:Originally Posted by sly Never be afraid to voice your opinion. You may not think it counts, but it does. |
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 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Ummmm ... everything I find (a simple Google search with numerous results) all say it cost $250 million. Where did you get $500 million up-front? Now, having watched it, I don't get the hate. I loved it!!! It has it's cheesy moments, but they were from Korg's version of the story. I think people forget (or didn't figure out) that throughout this whole movie, large parts of it is Korg telling a tale. Of course he is going to ham it up and embellish it!!! Anyways, I laughed, cried and laughed some more!!!! Everyone that hated the movie, it obviously isn't for you, but it's not going to destroy Disney. I get there are moments that the storyline could have used some fleshing out. I wouldn't call it weak writing though. I have a feeling that some of the gaps ended up on the cutting room floor. This is actually a movie that I'd like to see a Director's Cut of. |
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| I liked it. The incredible CGI is made for comic book movies. It’s a comic book, so cheesy is a lane. It’s Disney friendly. It has the usual smart Alec quips one expects now. It is a version of what sells. And it sells very well. That is the real point, isn’t it? Only sales matter. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Simple google search won’t answer how much it cost. Budget is direct immediate spend and excludes distribution/theater/marketing costs, which are very substantial. My guess is the studio was looking for $800M+ to roughly breakeven and were expecting $900M+. |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Ok. So it's your guess. That's what I thought. Nothing wrong with that. But your claim of "$500 million up-front" is not based on any verifiable information. That's not the way you presented it. |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| DOMESTIC (45.2%) $341,527,791 INTERNATIONAL (54.8%) $414,195,130 WORLDWIDE $755,722,921 The studio cashes in hugely on licensing and merch too....overall Disney has to be happy with its performance....would they want more? Absolutely.....everyone always wants more. |
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My only criticism is it could have used more Grandmaster IMO. Speaking of, does everyone know that as part of D+ Day Ragnarok has been re-released in AMC theaters? |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O I said “about” but easy to omit the qualifier. It is literally hundreds of millions closer to reality than the simple google search of $250M. The spend was very likely between $450-$550M. It was certainly not $300M or $350M… and this is excluding residuals and producer fees (adding another $50-$100M+ on top). Thought relevant when people think they’re happy with these results. Overall a disappointing box office and likely barely breakeven if at all… |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Ok. |
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HAmistoso private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by WMorse Disclaimer: went in with low expectations courtesy of the @flanders DWYT early warning system but was pleasantly surprised. There was Thor, there was Love, and there was Thunder what more can I say? |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC 13% lower gross than Ragnarok (despite higher ticket prices) and 40% higher budget… streaming may make some of the difference but Disney loses a lot of $ on streaming today… Was a “wind down” movie and it showed. Wind down of the characters, effort, importance and likely MCU. Everyone collecting big paydays. Guesses for Thor’s box office early in 2022 were between $900-$1bn. Die hards still showed up but the bad reviews and word of mouth killed the film after opening weekend. They may make some profit but there were no high fives with those results. |
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| Haven’t seen it and have no interest in seeing it. We even have 2 more months of Disney Plus and we haven’t opened it in over a year. We will be glad to dump Disney at that time. Most of the the people we know with kids who have aged out of the animated films feel the same way. We are all sick of the mouse and the crap its employees try to force upon our kids - meaning our children under the age of 10. The toy sections in our local stores tell the tail of how good or bad a movie is. The LEGOs modeled after the new Thor movie have all collected dust just like the Doctor Strange ones have. That says a lot about the final product. That didn’t happen with the ones modeled after the Avengers movies. |
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| I thought the movie was hilarious & I was very entertained. Question, did Thor ever kill Zeus in a comic? | ||
| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
 Hmm... Moderated again!
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
| We enjoyed it, it's not often you step outside of Eternity. | ||
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 It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave Just to be clear. You're willing to make-up numbers and use guess work for instances not in evidence, simply to support your "sky is falling and MCU is over" position? This includes ignoring several important pieces of information that are both in evidence and verifiable. Love and Thunder beat Ragnarok at the domestic box office. By that measure...it did better. Love and Thunder was never released at the box office in Russia or China. China made-up over $112 mil of the international gross for Ragnarok. That nearly covers the gap between the two. Now I agree that's making a major assumption. That Love and Thunder would land somewhere near what ragnarok took. Can't really make that assumption, but we can at least assume the gross international take would have been impacted by exclusion of the 2nd largest cinema market in the world. We have to consider the state of Disney + when Ragnarok came out vs. now. As in...Disney + wasn't released for another two years. It would be reasonable to expect some people chose not to see Love and Thunder in the box office as they were fine waiting for streaming release. While I certainly am not arrogant enough for wild speculation as to a range of $ related to this confounding factor, it doesn't seem outlandish to assume this could have had some cooling effect on box office take. How often do the third movies in any series out-gross the first or second films? There is often a box office cooling effect on sequels. Particularly third movies. Did we expect Thor to be immune to this? There are clear exceptions (like return of the King, battle of five armies). Those films stuck to a formulaic pattern that allowed for viewers who watched previous movies at home to be energized by the idea of seeing the conclusion on the big screen. The Thor movies are largely stand-alone in story arc. The stated cost of making Ragnarok was $180 mill and Love and Thunder was $250 mil. If we're going to speculate wildly about additional costs; shouldn't we at least make some assumptions that those costs would be similar in scale? All we know for certain is there is a $70 mill difference in stated cost to make the films. It's a little surreal that so many people are so vested in being "right" that they'll wildly speculate regarding numbers while completely ignoring actual evidence regarding data, background, and common trends that are easily available. I could be wrong...I guess you could be a major movie exec or producer. But then it seems you'd be able to direct us towards some sources that could support your speculation. It might also speak to an ulterior motives if you're with a competing company of some sort. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @etapi65 Read a bit on how costs scale with budget and on total cost vs budget then write a reply that is actually informed. | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Some light reading: https://www.fticonsulting.com/emea/-/media/files/emea--files/insights/articles/2020/sep/economics-film-changing-dynamics-covid-19-world.pdf?rev=71d8d0ae3a2b413bb77950dd772bee74&hash=7B4F3893D68857623A232DCE9F062B1E Thor Ragnarok (recall, lower budget at $180M vs Thor 4’s $250M, but higher box office at $850M vs Thor 4’s $750M) So profit of $174M for Thor Ragnarok with a $100M higher gross and $70M lower cost… Read the FTI consulting breakdown. Separate source that implies a cost multiple of about 2x on simple “Budget” …  |
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Hmm... Moderated again!
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figment private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "...and that is how Thor went from being a sad god to being a dad god." | ||
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 I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not impressed at all. | ||
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etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave FTI indicates 52% of film's expense with a > $70 mill budget was from production (however the information you shared about ragnarok puts that closer to 54%). Of the remaining 48%, 82% of that is print and advertising (again from the FTI short-paper). This estimate would be different (no clue by how much) if you remove the advertising costs from the 2nd largest cinema market on the globe. Since we don't have the numbers more refined we can't speculate as to the full impact that would have on the print and advertising budget. So, again, I won't make up numbers. The article you posted supported the point I made about the role of streaming platforms and how the Trolls sequel actually destroyed the box office totals of the first movie, but that we can't tell anything useful from one data point so they were "waiting" to see how Disney's Mulan would perfom. This was all during the pandemic so I'm not sure it's still relevant for pictures having dual releases (like Black Widow) or staged releases (theatres first and then streaming within a couple months). If you have anything updated to the current global market and setting I will read it fully. It's awesome you have the full picture of Ragnarok. Where's the full, post-analysis of Love and Thunder? Perhaps it's not available yet? I'm gonna need some help with that table deadline has from 2018 (original source). It indicates $854 million in global box office. An additional 367 million in "theatrical and non theatrical rentals" 121 in "home entertainment" and 155.8 in "global TV". Somehow those numbers added up to 644.10 in revenue. It's unclear to me how revenues of 854.30+367+121.3+155.8=644.10 instead of 1498.4 (or, nearly 1.5 billion). But, assuming those are actually being folded into the revenue somehow; we're quite a way from having those numbers for a movie that was released in non-theatrical formats in the last day or two. You also seem to be under the impression I'm somehow arguing that Love and Thunder has done better overall. It clearly hasn't, but quantifying how much of that gap is related to no release in China, the new streaming paradigm, and the lack of any data for streaming purchases/blu-ray; TV, can't be quantified by any information available at this time. Nor can we determine how much of the participations, interest, overhead, prints/ads would be reduced by not including China (or Russia, but their market is tiny). I'm not claiming Love and Thunder did better (nor have I). You're claim is that they barely turned a profit if any, which you later re-visited by saying there were no "high fives". I asked how do you know...and you gave me a post-analysis of Ragnarok, an old article from COVID changes and nothing about Love and Thunder. |
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| I think variety is how the world turns...one mans woke is another persons normal. People complain about the campy side of things, but this entire genera of movies is really somewhat ...campy by its singular nature. Nevermind movies from the eighties like the original superman and the further back you go even more so....remember the batman sixties series? Campy is normal in many ways to this hobby...and variety is how you get a broad base of interested viewers. it might not hit it out of the park like say Edn game, but they all do not have to. In the end as long as some enjoy it and it doesnt destroy the entire industry it just adds more choices. | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @etapi65 the simple math you can take away is that cost is 2-2.5x published budget. Revenue numbers are because the gross is not what the studio gets (they get a predetermined share - theaters keep the rest). You can allocate it a few ways but at the end of the day the breakeven on a movie will be at minimum 2x and more typically pushing towards 3x the published “budget” for a movie. The causes are separate. Streaming, covid, ticket prices, competition are all pluses/minuses. But it is wrong to think Disney views the box office here as a success. It was below their expectations and likely just at (maybe marginally below or marginally above) breakeven / their return hurdle. I’m not anti-MCU. I actually didn’t like End Game but enjoyed most of the movies leading up to it. I also enjoy some other Disney content. But I’ll call a garbage movie when I see it. I also slammed the latest Jurassic Park movie… but would have loved for it to be good. I just don’t play favorites. The Schumacher Batman movies were awful. Does that make me anti-DC??? |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Here is a 2019 Deadline article that mentions MCU advertising costs. Love and Thunder was not advertised anywhere near GOTG, let alone End Game. And why should it be? Marvel already has the established characters with an established universe. This was a sequel, not a ground breaking movie. Quote: Originally Posted by Deadline article |
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| I thought Ragnarok was better, but I enjoyed it. I think Thor is kind of a goofy character and a comedy with him is just about perfect. I don't expect every piece of the MCU to be five star, gold standard movie making or TV. Think about how many Marvel books you *don't* read and compare that to how many MCU products you also *don't* watch. I think Falcon and the Winter Soldier is the only non-netflix show I haven't seen any of. I haven't finished Ms Marvel yet but that's more about scheduling than lack of interest, same with Black Panther. I don't get the She-Hulk hate at all either, it's *FUN*. I truly think that we're losing the ability to just enjoy things sometimes, there's definitely some kind of problem with others enjoying things... | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The other thing being largely and sadly ignored is the peripheral returns. Action figures, lunch boxes, notebooks, lego sets, it all piles up fast. It is well known and documented that George Lucas discovered that very fact and began writing star wars story loops that allowed for more toy sets...Ewoks playbhouse anyone? Carbonite block Han solo? He quickly figured out the returns from those sales far outweighed movie revenues and often steered the storylines in directions that allowed for more toy sales. If anyone thinks that this movie in any way even scratched the surface of lost revenue for Disney they utterl and completely fail to undestand the concept ot soundtrack sales, action figures, puzzles, board games, and lunchbox sales. I am sure Disney made out like a dream on this movie as they always tend to. |
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 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Mcdonalds had their thor toy line in the happy meals. It was like 2 bux per toy if you buy it out right. | ||
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Hexigore private msg quote post Address this user | |
| As with all things MCU, it is Redbox for me. And that is if I am I am at all curious about the story. The MCU went to shit after Endgame. And even Endgame was marginal at best. What a disappointment. So much potential pissed away. Yeah, they made their billions by shitting all over great stories and characters and they continue to do it today. Whoopee for them. | ||
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