CBCS Official Statement18276
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xvipah private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't think anything missing are books of mine. That said, I have 2 books sitting there from August 2021, though the invoice says heat seal now, so I think they're moving through the system. But, I sent in a new shipment this month (August 15th). I see they got it and they have it as received and in pressing now, so that's good. But I think that will be my last shipment for a while. I haven't experienced much of anything negative myself (aside from the long waits), but there's just too much going on, and I'm getting pretty leery of their process, etc.. right now. Think I'll give them time to sort their **** out. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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danmalek466 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Apologies if asked already or posted somewhere, but how do we know who or what orders are affected? | ||
| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by danmalek466@danmalek466 Clan McDonald (Steve) posted it on their Facebook- after going thru all the non-existent customer service (we all deal with)- the email he posted is from the president Jeromy Murray. |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @danmalek466 and he asked that it not be reposted so I am honoring that- but it may still be on the group page- Honestly if I were Clan McDonald I would not have exposed CBCS to this- just my opinion- because they have 10’s of thousands of CBCS slabs they sell and facilitate for- I would have apologized to my customers and pressed CBCS for reimbursement then passed right on to customers- tarnishing CBCS is hurting not only their stock but his own as well- If I estimated I have 60% CGC 38% CBCS 2% other  |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
 Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I know there must be a very good reason to not make the list public, but I haven't a clue what it might be. | ||
| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not being able to locate some books in your building is one thing, but to me the most troubling aspect of this situation is the revelation that CBCS is taking books that are submitted to them, shipping them to somewhere else to be received into their database, and then shipped back to CBCS for grading. Obviously, us submitters did not know about this until now. I wonder, did their insurance company know? Is this other location somewhere else in Texas? Some other state? Some other country? And is there just one off-site location that they were being shipped to? Are there two of these off-site "database enterers"? Five? Twenty? |
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| Post 56 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @robertofredrico I really don’t see why this is so “troubling”- I have books that I’m having CGC get Dell’Otto signature in Italy- I mean I insure them and I’m ok as long as I get books signed or reimbursement for my FMV- you take risk walking out the door everyday that a piano falls from the sky- AF15 wasn’t lost here- it was a bunch of Marat Mychaels books… let’s just calm down. -we had unusual times with COVID- CBCS could risk their employees exposing themselves to each other or doing like 97% of the country and working from home- I mean where do you stand on that? Guess they could have just sent all your books back and said send them back again after COVID- seems like that isn’t any more wise than sending books in house to private (which is legally during Covid an extension of the workplace)- When you send your books in they are exactly that - sent off in their hands- not yours- and I assure you they have the legal fine print in there- If something is soooo valuable to you insure it as such- and if it you can’t then my advice would be don’t send it in and live with it in mylar (which is fine)- OR take to an on-site GRADING at a CON- you’ll get your book back that same weekend at the con- 90% of folks (estimated) are grading to SELL or TRADE (FLIP) FAST anyway so just want a grade assigned to get maximum value- Clan McDonald books were MOSTLY all moderns (he’s already said Marat Mychaels is going to reprint / replace and sign for free any lost)- and id wager CBCS will grade / slab for free NO DOUBT- all they can’t find. |
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| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
 You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HeinzDad I'm right there with you, @HeinzDad. I really like CBCS. I think they have a great product. However, if they expect to remain a viable choice in the graded comics market they cannot screw up like this. They also have got to get a real customer service presence. |
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| Post 58 • IP flag post | ||
 It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by radd76 I love this level headed response and you have a great attitude. Cheers and thanks for the perspective. |
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 Collector
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50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk I think he was the one that was most vocal since the lost so many of his books. If the submission date is July 2021, then it may be the entire month of July 2021. |
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| Post 60 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 This was a "mistake" that was made a little over a year ago and now they're just addressing it. For all the complaints that CGC went through regarding Acetategate, this is worse because they didn't make a statement until after CMC came forward with the loss. Since the decision to send these books to employee's home was intentionally done, it wasn't a mistake. It was the agreed upon plan. It didn't turn into a "mistake" until after a ton of books got lost. |
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| Post 61 • IP flag post | ||
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robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by radd76 Interesting that you use the word "disturbing" in quotes. Nobody else has used that word in this thread. And I'm sure everyone here is glad to hear your words of assurance that these were a worthless "bunch of Marat Mychaels books" that no one cares about, so there's no real problem at all. If you don't see the problem that a lot of submitters have been alarmed to learn that the books they assumed were being shipped to 1 location in Dallas and then shipped back to them, have instead been being shipped back-and-forth to unknown locations for an unknown amount of trips without their knowledge, then now you know. It's all good to say "well, Covid, so... extraordinary measures", but to keep those measures under wraps and only reveal them when they end up biting you in the butt is not a good thing. And again, I can't help but wonder if CBCS's insurance company was aware they were doing this, since obviously us submitters were not. |
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| Post 62 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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robertofredrico private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by radd76 If all the books involved were owned by Clan McDonald, I might agree with you. But these lost books were apparently owned by dozens of owners who submitted them through Clan McDonald. So they can either contact dozens of submitters saying "your books are lost", which would inevitable lead to hundreds of people on social media think that they are a careless company who routinely lose their customers' books, or they can be transparent and make a public statement saying "This is the situation. It isn't our fault, but we'll do everything we can to help, regardless." |
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| Post 63 • IP flag post | ||
 Moderator
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just so everyone understands, Steve McDonald kept this quiet for quite some time. The man is passionate about our hobby and his business. He lost sleep over worrying about this. Eventually, Jeromy sent him an email saying it was CBCS's fault and that Steve could share that email with his group. When Steve shared this in his group, he didn't expect (rightly or wrongly) that someone would take screenshots and share them everywhere. It was the next day that he said he did not give anyone permission to share screenshots and he wanted them taken down. I took down the screenshots from the CBCS Comic Collectors Club Facebook group and from here at that point. I believe that Steve McDonald kept a lid on this for as long as he could. He has always been a big supporter of CBCS. This tore him up. |
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| Post 64 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O He was placed in a bad situation. Either he outed CBCS for losing his books or his business would have been significantly impacted due to the delays and lack of communication. It seems like the choices he had were would have resulted in something bad for either company. |
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| Post 65 • IP flag post | ||
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Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I get it. For whatever reason, he (McDonald) didn't want people to know what happened? | ||
| Post 66 • IP flag post | ||
 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well posting the dirty laundry of CBCS prolly irreparably harms the relationship he had with cbcs and any future he might have with the company. However, what choice did he have? Take the blame fir someone else's screw up? I did that before and it pretty much cost me a lucrative job . (Guy blames me for screw up and I didn't tell manager immediately that he lied) Now he has to deal with a pissed off CBCS, or CGC. Depending on how he feels about CGC, he might have lost his one avenue of grading. But given tbe crap he went through and the lack of care for a bigger submitter than most of us will ever submit in our lifetime is kinda scary. I mean as a few books here or there we can't be treated like a guy that submits thousands of books. It really shows how deep the chasm of customer service and the lack of it that cbcs seems to have. |
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| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
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Moderator
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Gaard I think he was stressed out that this even happened. The way it appears to me, he gave CBCS as much time as he could to find them. Eventually, he felt he had to say something to his group. I don't think he ever wanted to cover anything up, but he wanted to be sure of the situation before saying anything. That's my take on it. I've been Facebook friends with him since ABOUT 2015 and in his group since he started it. |
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| Post 68 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This was a predictable outcome of a lack of gate-keeping. 18 months ago when a flood of new submitters arrived at the gates, there were no restrictions to limit the flow. No minimums, no requirement to buy a paid membership. Nothing to filter the profitable submissions from the flood of one and two book jobs. I mentioned back then that the likely outcome would be a bad experience for loyal, long-time submitters, and eventually a loss of support from them. | ||
| Post 69 • IP flag post | ||
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Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I suppose another possibility is that he didn't want it to be *him* that brought it to light. | ||
| Post 70 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by radd76 The letter from CBCS gave him permission to share it |
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| Post 71 • IP flag post | ||
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It was a one trick pony show but always hilarious.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka Yup...and even if they meant just to the group they must have known it would get out. No puttin' that genie back in the bottle once released. |
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| Post 72 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Supertom private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This is just another statement to try and save face. Just like all the “we’re working on it” statements before. I predicted something like this would happen nearly a year ago when it was taking 8-10 weeks to simply mark an order as received. At that time all the responses were, “Don’t worry, they’re in good hands”, with a whole slew of other excuses being made on their part. They were clearly taking on way more than they could handle and instead of halting submissions, you know, the thing a company with integrity would do, they announced the Express tiers which only further clogged up the unprocessed orders. This is what happens when you prioritize profit margins over your customers. When it comes to paying customers orders taking 2-3 times longer than stated, they’re silent. When it comes to something that can potentially affect their bottom line, boom, “Official Statement” in less than a week. Both companies have really shown their true colors these last several months. There’s no integrity left in the comic grading business. Only bottom lines. |
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| Post 73 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @poka (with his customers - not the world)- and yes the message from CBCS said with his customers- he did with his group on Facebook but kindly asked “keyboard warriors” not to repost it- He asked and I obliged- I also was not in those submissions of July 2021- -others have not been so kind - and obviously most people aren’t going to oblige- anything even sent over email is going to be shared- …and then I believe they took it down off FB (of course who is going to honor his request)- posted as a way to convey to his customers affected not the comic book community at large- (although others might be affected too that is between them and CBCS - as much as everyone else thinks otherwise)- It is what it is- I’m not reposting it as it was not mine to share and it was asked not to share. Steve McDonald is an honorable and good dude- I know this tore him up- I met him for the first time at CBCS Grading Expo 2020- it’s tough for sure. |
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| Post 74 • IP flag post | ||
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Moderator
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Steve McDonald said today that CBCS is working with him and taking care of it with him. They did figure out that 55 books got entered twice, which brings the total to 312. I'm going to send a message to Steve on Monday to see if I can share here all that he said in the group. Nothing major is going to change between now and Monday and I hate bugging people on the weekend. | ||
| Post 75 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @robertofredrico I fixed my original post even though I wasn’t using the quote feature on here- I put in quotes because “disturbing” is another way to say “troubling”- but since it troubled and disturbed you I did change it. I also never said worthless (you added this)- but just that Marat Mychaels is graciously reprinting each and every one he can and resigning for FREE to all Clan McDonald customers and submitters- that’s a classy act- reread my original post- I in no way put down Marat- I only IN CONTEXT- said there are no AF15’s lost that we know of (that can NOT be reprinted)… but bc a book that is modern can possibly be reprinted that is at least good that replacement of the actual product can be PROVIDED and GRADED and even WITNESSED- -and to your other point about the Covid excuse- COVID was and is still causing loss of life- please don’t put any comic books above this- Other than that yeah I’m almost certain the insurers (and workers of course) know more about everyday operations than the “submitters” about how things are run- lol. So you think CBCS called an insurance company and said they need an insurance policy and the company just said “oh ok sure” and they don’t know how the business is run- duuuuuude- not how that works- they have to know everything- what if someone gets their finger cut off sealing a slab- come on man- insurance knows what’s what- if they sent books OFF without insurance approval / knowledge and it’s proven then insurance doesn’t cover then it’s CBCS footing the bill- if that’s not disclosed- Either way- CBCS / Clan / Marat is reprinting and making right to extent they can- no one is perfect- there were also a good bit less lost (almost 20% less) than originally thought after looking closer- that has been announced FYI- |
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| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Stupid question on my part. Assuming the books are lost, at some point they will be found. Doesn't the extra printing of replacement books affect the overall census? Not saying they shouldn't do it, just saying there are negative repercussions on that course of action. | ||
| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Bronte books that were lost were never put in census- lost before grading- or at least for sure before census (is my understanding)- So if found they would be destroyed at that point I would guess if already replaced? (Any duplicate “numbered” ones)- and numbered meaning the 10/25, 11/25 and whatnot on the front cover (of those #’d books)- Any not numbered if they were entered I’m sure if not a strict print run or numbered it’s fine to leave extra copy- |
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| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Census was a bad choice of words on my part. I meant print run. I know that some variants have like 1000 count runs. Assuming the lost books were stolen and those books ever made it back into circulation the print number could be wrong and inflated. Decreasing value of books. Like I said earlier, it's prolly the best option given circumstances but the book that was sold that may have been a 1:500 variant might not be the case anymore if the lost book is ever found and not destroyed. | ||
| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
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radd76 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Bronte oh I got you! Yeah sorry I read census as CBCS population (graded)- But actual books printed you mean- yeah it’s not likely the books were destroyed and most likely eventually end up: 1. Found (because just overlooked / misplaced) 2. Stolen (private collection now) 3. Stolen (Resold online) 4. Plain lost and never found?! This brings up an interesting point… if we know the numbers submitted (because Clan actually photographs each submission prior to sending in)- then if those numbers are ever sold on eBay or anywhere else it creates a trail - that seller… then where he got them from… (even one would reveal all as they aren’t likely in 300+ hands that would all be dishonest or careless) etc etc- -could actually maybe find out who got their hands on them and maybe hold them accountable?- hmmm- Either 1 or 3 “could” be best scenarios- 1 best 2 worst 3 if tracked down then could give some answers 4 unlikely (remaining lost / never found part) But to your main point- it is the original publisher printing more and authorized to do so- and the books we are talking about have an extremely low print run of like 25/50/75/100 are the most common for Crosspoint- (which in a way act as rare as 1:500’s)- but ends up even lower- honestly I don’t think it changes much- and unless the same person gets two #10/25’s or two get graded and matched up then we just have this event that happened to point back to- |
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| Post 80 • IP flag post | ||
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