CGC puts blue label on "new" modified excl18147
 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sebastsk8 I especially appreciate his take on the legality of the situation. I'm inclined to believe the opinion of someone who has made this industry his livelihood for 30+ years. I would think he would know a thing or two about copyright and infringement laws, especially since he help found Image Comics!!! |
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| Post 476 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well, Liefeld’s understanding of the legal implications is better than some (who think this is equivalent to a sketch cover, or generally no biggie). His understanding of the overall situation seems limited, however. There are: * the legal issue(s) * reputation / credibility issues * precedent issues * overall brand (in some areas intertwined with the above, in some areas separate and distinct) As for anyone suggesting “move on” or “not my issue” - you’re missing the point. When there are systemic implications everyone (in the hobby) is a stakeholder of the outcome. Does not mean voting by selling slabs, or not using a service etc. There is no reason to self-regulate response or the venues for expressing concern. |
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| Post 477 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You’re correct on potential impact. I think the scope (at the moment) is limited but credibility is hard fought to obtain, but easily lost through disdain. That systemic impact is lurking beneath all this, compounded by other questionable decisions, a difficult market (prior supply side constraints/excess demand/quality issues) and a weakening demand side threat… Quote: Originally Posted by James42 |
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| Post 478 • IP flag post | ||
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Here's a little bit of a cleaner screenshot of CGC's final statement, so far. |
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| Post 479 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O He also makes no mention of how CGC gave similar 9.9 and 10 grades to three different acetate variants produced by Black Flag, leading anyone who isn't gullible to believe that those grades are utter nonsense. If you're going to come to the defense of someone, you should do yourself a favor and be even somewhat informed of what's going on. CGC wasn't "deceived". They are in cahoots with the others to deceive customers with made up grades. |
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| Post 480 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector*
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For those attempting to cast this as a entire hobby issue and all involved are in jeopardy over it, I would simply ask if you’ve never heard the expression “buy the book, not the grade”. If so, and you buy that way, this situation as ZERO effect on you or the hobby. The internet is full of them. It would seem that you are intelligent enough to realize that the hobby is littered with horrendous examples of poorly graded/mistakes/poor quality control by the major grading companies. So, you act on that accordingly. If not, and you always buy based upon the label, then your views then the “integrity” of the grading companies hasn’t effected the hobby either. Until the recent market correction the hobby has been growing by leaps and bounds. | ||
| Post 481 • IP flag post | ||
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders That's why I said that I don't think he knows that CGC stood behind their actions three times. At they very least, they knew what they were doing when they did it, and they didn't gaf. |
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| Post 482 • IP flag post | ||
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater Just because it doesn't effect me directly, doesn't mean it's not harmful. This may not effect the entire hobby, but it effects the part I'm most active in. Therefore, when I see and smell bs, I'll call it bs. |
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| Post 483 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Sebastsk8 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @flanders I don't see that being that hard to do, seeing as they most likely went directly from production to grading with pretty much 0 handling. If diamond took books straight from the press to grading I would guarantee a much higher average grade on those books as well. Not to mention acetate is much easier to cut perfectly than paper, and when done at such a smaller scale than a normal trade dress print run, they're able to take the time to make it as perfect as possible. | ||
| Post 484 • IP flag post | ||
 I’m not an ant. I’m a rootin tootin Hornet!
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Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sebastsk8 They have to open the book and put it on a saddle stapler and put extra staples and holes in the book. Opening it cracks the color down the spine. Cgc had to give out grades of 10/9.9/9.8 no way they would ever get those after manhandling and shipping. Plus all the acetate covers have the same number of each grade. Come on a blind hog looking for an acorn can see what Cgc did. I will never use a shady company with zero integrity. |
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| Post 485 • IP flag post | ||
 I like bean sprouts.
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James42 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Sebastsk8 Except they went from production to the shop where they failed to sell, into storage, out of storage for stapling extra plastic on, then to CGC. The fact that the print run has had no grades above 9.8 until Black Flag assembled the custom bootlegs is extremely suspect as well. | ||
| Post 486 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Sebastsk8 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Zombie_Head that will not affect an acetate cover the same as it will paper, and it would be graded based on the outer cover and not the inner. | ||
| Post 487 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Sebastsk8 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @James42 I'm assuming this would be graded the same as any other book - outer cover is the condition the book is based on, similar to a double cover where the better of the 2 is used for the overall grade. As far as the books being handled, there's a good chance they were never even unboxed given the large amount of them. That and black flag I'm sure would fully handpick the best looking books to send off for grading. Again, if someone at diamond looked through their books fresh off the press and picked the best of them to take directly to grading...you're going to end up with much higher grades on average. |
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| Post 488 • IP flag post | ||
 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sebastsk8 The book has two covers, they both get graded, then the interior pages. It's not a manufactured defect with a double cover hence there's no two grades on the label. If you think only the acetate is the cover for grading that's wrong. What about gatefold covers. Do they only grade what is seen when the book is closed. Or when a half cover is over a full cover when manufactured like the funeral for a friend issue. Don't have one to show. Do you think grading companies only grade that half red cover? |
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| Post 489 • IP flag post | ||
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I’m not an ant. I’m a rootin tootin Hornet!
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Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sebastsk8 The outer cover on this isn’t the outer cover it’s an added piece of crap. Shame Cgc, they knew they shouldn’t have graded it the way they did. Cgc is crap. |
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| Post 490 • IP flag post | ||
 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Sebastsk8 The better of the 2 covers is not always the grade. I have a double cover book that is not the grade of either cover if I recall correctly. |
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| Post 491 • IP flag post | ||
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Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The dubious grading of a after market structural change comic by a grading company that promotes itself as impartial is a concern to all. This shadow of grading falls over not just CGC, the other impartial grading companies. Buy the book not the grade is what us experienced collectors do. What about the new collectors entering the hobby. Having a impartial third party grading company that grades comics and is only interested in a honest impartial grade of a book and if the book has been restored is what is needed for our hobby today and into the future. Not a grading company that isn't impartial to their doctrine when dealing with a retailer. Want to go that way, take out the impartial grading wording you promote and just change your name to dynamic forces and manufacture modern collectibles and there's no doubt from potential customers what you're doing. |
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| Post 492 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater That’s a good point. But it’s even more reason why they will not want outside parties doing this and creating something that CGC labels as their product. |
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| Post 493 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I feel like CGC's announcement contradicts Rob Leifields defense of them. According to their announcement they were not "duped" at all. They knew the situation and established conveniently accommodating protocols before grading the books...according to the announcement. | ||
| Post 494 • IP flag post | ||
 Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater The problem is the precedent it sets. Allowing someone to have that level of autonomy over someone else's intellectual property and permitting them to put something espousing an ideology on it (The "In God We Trust" cover listed on the blue label) and then claiming the owner of that intellectual property said they approve (blue label implies it's an official release/variant authorised by Marvel) opens an ugly can of worms. What's next? The skinhead swastika variant? Come down on that like a ton of bricks after letting Acetate Gate go and there will be legal repercussions and Marvel stands to lose control - at least in part - of their property. This kind of thing has happened before, so there already is a legal precedent. |
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| Post 495 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC Exactly like this. Black Flag was being a bunch of greedy douches with questionable judgment, but the ones who ultimately allowed this to go where it did is CGC. They should have known better. |
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| Post 496 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O I often consider Liefeld to be a bit of a clown, considering the rubbish he produces, but I'm agreeing with a lot of what he said. He's providing an interesting insight that deserves to be heard and considered. |
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| Post 497 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia Yup. I agree with a lot of what Liefeld said, but not all. CGC should have just done their freakin' job. If they had, those books would be downgraded due to aftermarket alterations with nastygrams in the notes, or festooned with green labels like they should be. You had ONE job, CGC...  |
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| Post 498 • IP flag post | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia You might find some of Liefeld's replies in his post entertaining. Especially when he personally attacks people that disagree with him. https://www.facebook.com/rob.liefeld Here's my favorite one:  |
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| Post 499 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders Now THAT sounds like the BS I'm used to hearing from Liefeld!! LOLLL!!!  |
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| Post 500 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I see Rob hasn't changed. Such a pleasure. | ||
| Post 501 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia Which is why Liefeld's defense of them is odd. CGC has indicated they knew what it was and have triple-downed on rationalizing. |
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| Post 502 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I wonder: had cgc immediately admitted they made a mistake and all future subs will be green; how much of this goes away. For me? - not a whole lot. Scoundrels and f*nuts will always set me off over incompetence & stupidity. I've stood on those lines at Cons for exclusives and thought id seen it all. This has a special place with burning my ass |
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| Post 503 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Liefeld’s analogy to the situation doesn’t really work though. If Black Flag had bought a copy of the comic and then duplicated it and sold the duplicates, then his analogy would fit and it would be clearly be illegal. The actual situation is more like if you bought a bunch of Marvel blu rays, the put a clear plastic slipcover on the outside that puts a mustache over everyone’s face and then sold them. Could there be legal issues there? Possibly, but whatever they may be it’s not as cut and dried as Liefeld is portraying it. In the situation Liefeld describes the infraction is clear but I don’t think it describes the actual situation. Industry veteran or not, his take doesn’t make sense to me. |
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| Post 504 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I picked up on the bad analogy as well. I think it would be more like taking a copy of Star Wars, reshooting the first 2 minutes, and then releasing it as your own movie. But your analogy is more accurate in that the third party had to actually purchase each physical copy from the original publisher or their distributor. |
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| Post 505 • IP flag post | ||
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