Signature Failure What does it mean?18065
 Collector
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MrESauce private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I just got my invoice back for my book and it says failure on both signatures. I know they are authentic but does that mean the failure on the invoice means they are unverifiable? I just want to know what it means. | ||
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 Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| it would likely mean they could notfind enough examples that compare favorably to your own signatures....were they Stan Lees by chance? | ||
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Collector
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MrESauce private msg quote post Address this user | |
Nope it was Neil Gaiman and Sam Keith. My boss who's owned a comic shop for about 30 years sold me it and told me he saw them sign himself. He even got a certificate of authenticity. It's just kinda a major bummer if they couldn't verify it. It's my first time ever using cbcs and this just feels like a waste of money. |
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CBCS did not fail your books, BAS did. CBCS uses them for authentication, they are two seperate entities in many aspects | ||
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 Collector
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sdr2711 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, I was gonna say, it's rare for Becket to fail but if they do not have enough samples to confirm that may be it. | ||
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Collector
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MrESauce private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I just mean as my first book I've ever done here for the soul purpose of getting my signatures verified, having that failed kinda soured my entire experience. | ||
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MrESauce - If a signature fails verification, it does not mean that it’s a fake. It just didn’t pass the accepted criteria for what’s considered to be authentic examples of that signature. Signatures can change greatly over time - look at early examples of Frank Miller’s signature. And if someone is signing 100 or more items, the last signature will probably not look as nice as the first. Some artists, like Jack Kirby, are known to have had other people sign for them (including his wife). Other creators, like Stan Lee, although pretty common (he must have signed tens of thousands of books before he passed) seem to be faked pretty frequently. Also, items obtained with COA’s from Dynamic Forces seem to routinely fail verification. |
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
well looking around online I saw these examples  Found those at just a quick glance and they dont much seem to resemble the signtures you have....did you compare them with other samples yourself before sending? I think thats a step I would have tried first |
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Collector
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MrESauce private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't have the CoA with me on hand but I do know they were signed in the 90s so it is a much older signature for them. | ||
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 Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by sdr2711 its a shame BAS doesnt have a "not enough exemplars to decide" option instead of "failed" |
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Feel free to use my post as a checklist.
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multi007 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by esaravo you "could" send it in to JAS in Ft Lauderdale or PSA DNA to authenticate (but they dont do comic book grading though). |
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 Collector
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KCBatmanFan private msg quote post Address this user | |
 Here’s a Gaiman I have. Pretty similar to Darkseid’s example above. |
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Collector
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MrESauce private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Looking at sandman books, Gaiman's signature is not entirely consistant so I can understand why it would be difficult to verify https://preview.redd.it/4c7uy4lboq051.jpg?auto=webp&s=649c4105d61bb8317d759825cadb8bf4f3b89143 https://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B2%2F2%2F0%2F0%2F7%2F22007311%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D https://e3effa51eee72fd900e3-2fb779bd12ec72d4612275342f2c9187.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/542b92228ff6e4889bd65f9c25abdd49.jpg |
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 COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MrESauce lol that last one is my copy Yeah, looking at other signatures I can understand why yours might’ve failed verification. Again, not suggesting it is fake but it does differ enough from other examples that it could fail  |
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 Collector
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etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wilce portacio sticks out as having a very different signature now than in the 90s. So it's possible Sam Keith has done the same, but that one looks way off from examples I can find. The Gaiman looks closer, but it almost looks like a combo of different sigs, features seen on some of his sigs but not others.  My Gaiman from this year. Not sure it would pass either but closer to two others posted here. |
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 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Did you get anything else graded in the submssion? Any good news? | ||
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 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| “I know they are authentic” Do you do good work? Your boss sold you the book. Did the price reflect an ungraded book without signatures? Or something more? I acknowledge different philosophies on knowledge and the extent we can truly “know” anything (e.g., Berkeley refuting ability to “know” physical things beyond our mind’s construct absent, conveniently, God). Still your definition of “knowing” is very … optimistic? I’m mostly kidding. Welcome to the forum. Cool book regardless of whether the signatures passed verification. I don’t fault Beckett for failing these ones though. I’d be more concerned if they passed! Quote: Originally Posted by MrESauce |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I wonder how common it is to have 2 out of 2 fail. Seems like that is beating the odds assuming they are authentic. | ||
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 Miss Chanandler Bong
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jake private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Had these 3 pass BAS. Hope the others make the cut. I would be bummed since I was there. Wish you success with getting them authenticated!    |
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Collector
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MrESauce private msg quote post Address this user | |
 I found the certificate of authenticity, so it is a 30 year old signature for both of them they may not have on file. Which sucks for me a I guess. |
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 To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die.
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MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MrESauce They don't go by the c.o.a. so it wouldn't matter. |
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Collector
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MrESauce private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MutantManiaI know. But I like knowing I have the verification |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Only sucks if you paid based on signatures being real / authenticable. Quote: Originally Posted by MrESauce |
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Kind of the problem with COAS, they mean precisely no more than toilet paper.... When it comes down to it | ||
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 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Davethebrave Actually it sux all the way around. What do you do with books that don't pass? Unless it's for personal collection you are toast. The only thing to do is take advantage of a sucker by submitting to EGS.... |
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Collector
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circuitryusa private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MrESauce When by chance did you submit, and what/how were you contacted about the failure, and did you do pressing? (sorry for so many questions) I submitted several Gaiman sigs (some with George Pratt), also from 1991, in my November and December submissions (I never thought to take photos of all of them like an idiot). All my submissions now show they are in pressing, so I am led to believe they "passed" VSP... but not sure. I contacted Customer Service some time ago and they claim VSP is before pressing. I did check the box that says "do not encapsulate if VSP fails", but I am hoping they do not wait 1-2 years for pressing, then to say "VSP Failed" and I get them back with just a press ... That is why I am hoping you can provide more details about your sub and contact of failure. My other Gaiman submissions from my recollection all appear (from my memory) to look very similar to those two pics I have here... his remarque on the eyes you have and silver ink pen is classic Gaiman... he always does that on the cover signatures (so to me, that is a genuine Gaiman sig). One of mine now in pressing is Sandman #10 (first Corinthian) where he remarqued teeth on the eyes, so I sure hope that passed!! (~~nervous~~)   |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Technically true but emotionally there is a difference. I also think that the general markets willingness to put faith in a COA is inverse to the value of the book, or rather the value that the signature adds to the book. |
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafiaEmotionally there is only a difference if you think they are worth something....otherwise its just glorfied charmin. Seen way too many high end autographs with this or that COA that was utterly trash and the signature was not real. The general markets willingness to accept coas and give them respect is born out of mostly ignorance of what a COA actually means or leaves as legal protection. Most times by the time a COA is challenged, the issuer is either gone, the company has dissolved, or the issuer has changed names and is running another scam |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Bronte Well, if I paid $150 (or something around market for unsigned book) and fully believed the sigs are real (reputable person telling me plus COA etc) and I am keeping the book as a fan, I’m still happy (enough). If I paid more than market for unsigned (on basis it was signed) and/or want to flip it, I’m sad. |
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My secondary moves would be basic enough....if I was unshakeable in the premise they are real. (Which honestly buying second hand from anyone, I am seldom, far as signatures)Contact the allegeded signers via social media for their take....couldnt hurt. If I truly want authentication and am just sure its clean I might try JSA for a verification or PSA.If they fail it as well, you pretty well know what brand the spinach is in the can | ||
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