Monthly (Comic) Book Club - July - The Punisher: Purgatory17912
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Issue one I felt was stronger than pretty much all of the previous run. I definitely agree that the monologue turning into a one-liner was strange but otherwise I don’t think the storytelling is way off base. The Punisher’s often been criticized for his one-note nature. It’s not wholly undeserved but I do appreciate the attempt at growing him a little. Even if he’s not in a romantic relationship with Lucy, it’s nice seeing Frank trying to socialize and have an actual life and even fighting his urges to simply kill every criminal outright. We’ve seen where Frank is before this but I’m not sure where Wolverine is coming from. He seems to have his bone claws, so post Fatal Attractions but I’m not familiar with Wolverine’s journey in the five years after that. I’m not even sure he’s in the X-Men at this point. Even if the anime style isn’t one’s cup of tea, I think here it shows a lot more passion for the work than the art in the last run. I think it’s more visually interesting and there’s a lot of nice detail throughout. Something I thought was sorely lacking in the last run. I actually think Frank’s guns look pretty cool with the detail they show at the start of the issue and I think they even look different when he’s holding them in the council chambers. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I actually like the way the story is developing. It’s only 4 issues so I’m not expecting Watchmen here but I like the idea of the council pushing Frank to do their bidding, Frank resisting but understanding that sometimes things do align. I’d definitely like to see that explored more, though since this is the last series with this iteration of Frank, I know we won’t. At least they leave good potential instead of sinking the idea with a bad execution later on. I like how they’ve setup the “villain.” Essentially a mutant that emits a death aura whose powers grew beyond her control that had to be put into suspended animation until a solution could be found. All the while she’s trapped in a dream formed by her religious beliefs and the guilt of having inadvertently killed her parents. She’s imagined herself in hell for years and now freed she feels she’s afraid of being sent back and still sees those around her in hellish terms. The setup works for me. Again, we see more varied use of the Punisher’s new weapons. When he first goes down in the subway he’s carrying something like a rifle and elsewhere is using different kinds of pistols. I agree that it’s a bit strange, if not an outright plot hole, that the Morlocks have the technology to create the highly advanced sentry robots but for me it isn’t more than a mild annoyance really. I also don’t think the mutant/morlock thing is a mistake. It’s the holographic message that identifies Wolverine as a mutant while it is the malfunctioning security drones that list Wolverine as an unidentified Morlock and attack him. Additionally, by this point I believe the Morlocks had been retconned as failed experiments by Dark Beast (of the Age of Apocalypse timeline) when he was transported to the past of the 616 universe so maybe Morlocks are somewhat distinct from mutants as a whole. As far as stating that New York is dangerous, it’s certainly based more on public and media perception fueled by the spike in crime in New York in the 70s through early 90s. By ‘98 crime rates were in decline but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a few years for that perception to change. That said, this is also the Marvel universe where New York had enough crime to fuel something like 3 simultaneous ongoing Punisher series in the 90s, on top of all the other Marvel series set in New York at the time. So again, you might find it annoying but I don’t think it’s egregious enough to be worth mentioning. I think you might also be making too much about Wolverine’s willingness to kill Revelation. You make it sound like Wolverine is totally on board with that solution and that he’s ready to go through with it but that’s not really what we’ve seen. In their encounter Wolverine is very much trying to resolve things peacefully with Revelation and looks to want to find her some help (probably with the X-Men). After he’s snapped out of his rage by the Punisher (I agree it feels a bit forced but for what it lasts I again don’t feel it’s so egregious that it brings the book down in a meaningful way) he does mention things may get messy and that killing her might be the only way to help her but it’s not portrayed as if its the only solution he’s open to. If anything, I feel Wolverine is portrayed exactly how you seem to expect him to behave. He’s sympathetic and wants to bring Revelation to people that can help her but also understands, especially after she attacks him, that her psychological damage might be so extensive that she might resist help so much and at the same time endanger so many others that euthanasia might be their only viable solution. To some degree I kind of feel like you’re trying to nitpick reasons to dislike the series. Yes the points you bring up are valid but I also don’t agree that they’re significant enough to suggest that we’re at the edge of of a cliff and we’re just going over the edge in the final two issues. I can agree that after the first series to not expect this to become some forgotten masterpiece but from what I’ve read of the series so far and the severity of the points you’ve brought up I don’t feel the series is destined for an inevitable collapse. I do agree that there is potential for the series get worse and fail the landing but that’s more the potential I see in any project to stumble across the finish line and not that it is the logical trajectory or conclusion of what we’ve read so far. Then again, I’m also the one that loves the film Prometheus despite the its issues so maybe I’m being overly forgiving 🤷♂️ |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I agree pretty much with all of this. I was optimistic when I finished #1 in terms of being a step in the right direction from the previous series. I think you're right that Wolverine wasn't with the team at this point. His healing factor is up to snuff though so it's after he recovered from having the adamantium removed. |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite That's a bit I wasn't aware of. Hooray for learning! Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite It's more of a personal pet peeve, and you're right that when the series came out rates were higher. As more of a recent thing, it bugs me when people talk about how dangerous NYC is, or Chicago is, or most places. Any given person in Buffalo is more likely to experience violent crime than someone in NYC. Albuquerque has the highest violent crime rate in the US. Portland Oregon has the 7th highest rate in the US. It's almost never the cities you hear about. It's also certainly true that 616 New York might be a ridiculously dangerous city. Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite This one is just another personal point. I much prefer the redemptive Wolverine stories where he's trying to do better and give others the options he didn't have. The ones where he's just hacking and slashing bad guys can also be good but that's my preference. And it's a little odd that he has to tell Frank Castle of all people that they might have to kill someone. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I wouldn't say I'm looking for it, although you're right that's how it's coming across. On the other hand I haven't seen much else to comment on; the first two issues are fine. If most of the content tops out at 'fine' and the rest are little things that nag at me, then I don't have much to talk about besides the nagging. I do think the art is solid, and as mentioned think it's better so far than the previous series (which is a low bar). Has there been a high point for you so far? Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite Well now I see the problem  I liked Prometheus ok as much as I like horror movies (not my genre overall) but I absolutely could not get past the scientists being complete idiots. Like, the biologist goes up to the weird alien thing that looks a lot like a snake and tries to pet it. Poor decision-making is a theme of the series, so I get it, but that's the main thing I remember from that movie. |
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| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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| I think issue 3 develops things nicely. It’s got its share of battles but overall it felt more dialogue-driven and did a good job of re-establishing the characters. Revelation is further played up as a tragic figure. Her origin is mostly re-told but hearing her speak directly really emphasizes that she is lost, not malevolent but her desire to be free is what puts her in conflict with our heroes. Frank, though supernaturally powered, begins to weaken. He is not healing from a battle wound and seems to finally fee the effects of Revelation’s death aura. This leads to a well-done conversation between Wolverine and Frank about death and the afterlife. Some people have bemoaned the Punisher as a rather simple character with little in terms of growth or change throughout his history. To an extent it’s not incorrect but I think this shows a good attempt to try to push the character along. The idea that Frank would be willing to change his ways for the opportunity to see his family again in the afterlife feels authentic. I think it’s also well done that both Frank and Logan want to stop Revelation alive and help her with her condition. I think it’s shown well in their dialogue as well as in the way they interact with her. I also really like the sense of ever-increasing weariness you get from Frank. First he’s injured and on top of that he starts getting sick and the art really helps convey that feeling of increasing desperation in Frank, to the point where it’s understandable, given his whole reason for living now, that he feels they might need to kill Revelation. I also really liked how Wolverine tries to talk him down from that in terms that make sense in Frank’s new world view. I was actually a little surprised that Dark Beast was name dropped. I know I mentioned earlier that he was involved with the Morlocks but I wasn’t expecting the story to reference it. I’m not too familiar with Dark Beast except that he’s a very deranged and sadistic mad-scientist type so it would make sense that he would have deadly weapons and may even have been the source of the stolen technology that seemed out of place for the Morlocks. Finally, the Council of Thrones makes a reappearance. One of the council seems very dismissive of Frank’s capacity for redemption and would be happy to see Frank die. One of the others points out that given the source of Frank’s powers he shouldn’t be affected by Revelation suggesting that her powers pose a danger even to them. I like that the Council hasn’t been a major element in the story. I like that they frame Castle’s character trajectory without getting in the way like I fee they did in the last story where Frank didn’t seem to do anything. Here we see Frank acting, making his own choices but then we have the council in the back looking over his shoulder. If I were to point out a negative, it would be that Frank and Wolverine fighting faceless robots does get old pretty quickly. I don’t know if maybe the story should be pitting Wolverine and Frank against Revelation more directly more often. I think the level of interaction has been pretty good for the needs of the story but that does mean Wolverine and Frank need to be kept busy somehow but I think something better could’ve been done than having them fight the same robots over and over. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I read 3 and 4 together to wrap the series. It ended about the only way I guess it could - the girl with uncontrollable powers died but not because of Frank or Wolverine. The series does make me wonder where Punisher went from here. He seems pretty committed to trying to do well so that he can make it to heaven, but the bits of stories I've read since then don't seem very focused on it. Plots and characters change over time and across writers, of course, but I'm curious if a specific thing happened or if they just kind of dropped it. |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite It didn't sink in for me until the bit where Wolverine is on his own talking about fighting the 3rd generation of the robots, but it reminded me of Wolverine 50. He fights Shiva, a robot created by the Weapon X program, that learns how it's defeated and makes a new copy of himself that can't be beat that way. The action in that issue is better than here, IMO. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk They went straight into Welcome Back, Frank from here. They briefly address it in the first issue and that’s about it.    There are only sporadic mentions of the angelic Punisher after that. One being later in the Thunderbolts series we read where an angel’s feather Deadpool managed to get a hold of saves Frank after he’s critically wounded by Mercy |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Interesting. The current run of Punisher (just stop reading now if you don't want plot spoilers) has Frank running the Hand in return for them resurrecting his wife and (presumably to come) children. That's basically what the angels were offering him, plus he directs the Hand to take out targets he wants. Maybe that's enough of a better deal for him to take it compared to what Heaven offered? Although the Hand obviously have plans as well and they seem to be coming into conflict already. | ||
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