Monthly (Comic) Book Club - May - The next Crises17495
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I have not! I'll have to take a flip back through before I move on to the rest of the series. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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| Flipping through, Clark Kent looks a little familiar but I can't generate a name. Interestingly, his face changes when he's Superman (in issue 1 on the page where he gets the alert, compare the middle right panel to the bottom right panel). Same with Batman in issue 3 when his mask is off; looks familiar but I can't place him. Otherwise I can't say anyone jumps out at me. I do appreciate that the characters look distinctive though; there isn't a commonality to them that a lot of artists have. So I did some googling and found this rundown: https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-easter-eggs-the-many-faces-of-identity-crisis/ . I can see some of them with photos next to each other, but I don't think Rags' work is photorealistic enough to really bring those faces through. And that's fine with me; I don't need comic book characters to look like actual people. Occasional Easter eggs are fun but when characters look like actors it can take me out of things a bit. As a side note, going back through, one thing I thought but didn't write in was how I enjoy Superman's casual displays of speed. In issue 1 he gets the alert and is suddenly in costume, and in issue 4 he's on the video call from Smallville and then suddenly in the room (again getting changed along the way). It's a nice touch. |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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| Issue 5 has things I like and things I don't like. The emotion and the tension in Drake's attack is very well done. Batman's expressions are also good. I think the art is doing great work. On the flip side, I'm not as sure about the story. Firestorm dies in essentially a page, for no big payoff. They were far enough down the roster that I didn't know the other heroes or villains there except for Shazam. And we don't see any other villains except for the shadow person; Shazam is powerful enough to handle some heavy hitters. Who were they fighting that all we see if Firestorm go out poorly? I'm also not sure about Captain Boomerang's move. Why would he decide to kill a hero's family member? And why Tim Drake's? Granted, about the only thing I know about Boomerang is that he's a Flash villain and kind of deplorable, but it seems like a drastic move. Is he trying to impress his son? Seems like a weird way to do it. |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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| Issue 6 does a few things. One is it makes some changes to the status quo, making it similar to the other Crisis events. Captain Boomerang is now his son and has super speed. Tim Drake is another orphaned Robin. It's happening 'naturally' instead of because of a universe-wiping reset, but still making some changes. It gives us the big reveal about Batman's memories also being wiped. Keeping heroes' secret identities a secret is apparently a very dirty business. And we get the reveal that someone very tiny killed Sue. Assumptions seem to jump to the Atom, but why would he attack his ex-wife and then save her? Just to throw suspicion away from him? Why would he want all these other people dead? |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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| Issue 7 wraps up the mystery. Atom's ex-wife, Jean, killed Sue in a bid for attention. She pleads innocence and a lack of intention, but she tried to cover her tracks and put a hit out on Tim's dad. Off she goes to Arkham. Overall I'll say that I liked this better than Zero Hour. It was more holistic and understandable, I liked the art better, and I wanted to know what was happening next whereas I wasn't invested in any part of Zero Hour. So it has that going for it. That said, there's a lot of things I don't like in the series. I don't think the "who benefits" part works, aside from if you don't think about it too hard. I don't think the lack of clues works. While Jean getting in and the murder itself would certainly be hard to find traces of, she must have left something behind when she grew back to normal size. A smell or something that one of all those heroes would have picked up on. Trying to understand the logic of the criminally insane is silly, but I don't understand why Jean put out the hit on Drake. She had already faked the attack on herself and had Ray's attention; why not stop there? The story is also ugly, content-wise. Deaths are a part of superhero stories, of course, but not typically like this and by someone in the family. Add in the pregnancy and rape and the mind-wipes and personality changes and no one really comes off well. I wonder if this story would have been released the way it did (as a big event, in continuity) if Black Label existed at the time. |
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| Issue 2 seems to be more of an expository issue. We see what happened years ago that fuels Elongated Man's intense hatred for Doctor Light and it is hard to disagree. The trauma heaped on Sue definitely crosses into the excessive. Not only is she brutally murdered, but she was pregnant, and the man suspected had raped her in the past. I know Meltzer is primarily a novelist and reading this I expected him to be a psychological-thriller/horror writer in the vein of Thomas Harris and his line of Hannibal Lecter novels. I was surprised to learn that he primarily focuses on political thrillers. I haven't read any of his books so I may be wrong but this seems out of his wheelhouse. For comics, he had previously written a few issues of Green Lantern and his fondness for the character does show. Still, I imagine Watchmen may have been on his list of reference material when writing this as both focus on a murder close to the community of heroes, their investigation surrounding it, and a rather cynical and ugly view of the world. Now saying that, I am not hating the writing. Unfortunate tropes aside I think the story is fairly well constructed so far. The idea that some of the Justice League would want to do something beyond just sending Doctor Light back to prison given the circumstances rings true with the characters he chose to employ. You're right that the situation would not have worked with characters like Batman or Superman or Wonder Woman, characters with more absolutist moral outlooks, and instead focuses on characters who can see the world in more shades of gray, or at least ones I don't know well enough that such an outlook can apply to without screaming out of character. Barry Allen does seem the odd man out but again, if one of the books themes is death, then we are seeing how the death of a loved one can affect the living, leading to imperfect decisions. Something we are seeing with Elongated Man in the present. |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite There is certainly a kind of political angle to it, though. Green Arrow is against what they're doing, and he has a line (you haven't gotten to it yet) about how all the disagreements in the Justice League are political. GA, Canary, and Green Lantern vote against the personality change but are outvoted; they also believe in the JL majority rule so they let it happen. I have other thoughts but I don't think I can write more about it without either violating forum rules or rambling for paragraphs, or more likely both. That said, there isn't any kind of deep introspection into this topic. There are a couple more arguments about it but they get waved away as necessary evils, which I think adds to the ugliness of the series. |
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| Issue 3 feels connective; more exposition while only inching the story foreword. Most of the issue is dedicated to a big fight between the Justice League and Deathstroke. The fight is definitely made to show how deadly Deathstroke can be but these kind of “one guy easily overpowers multiple heroes at once” fights just fee very phoney most of the time. I can certainly believe Deathstroke is a brilliant tactician, superhumanly strong, and with great eyesight but then you pit him against multiple heroes, some of which are basically gods, it just feels fake to me, like they are overpowering the villain or hobbling the heroes for drama. Sure I can believe Slade could set a trap to funnel the flash into attacking him from a certain direction but it’s harder to believe he’d be able to complete his stabbing motion before Flash got to him when the Flash can accelerate faster than the speed of light. Zatanna’s not exactly a frontline fighter so Deathstroke just hopped over everyone to get her. He apparently spends enough time with her for his attack to induce vomiting with Black Canary pretty much right behind him and it’s not even her he goes for next and she still hasn’t done anything, to say nothing about Green Lantern, who Slade comes for last but does nothing in the time it takes Slade to dispatch everyone else and when he does he chooses to throw a punch. These kinds of fights can be done right but it’s also very easy for them to be done wrong and this one just doesn’t work very well for me. At the very least the story points out that Slade struggles and gambles with his approach to the Green Lantern ring. I agree that it’s a little difficult to decipher exactly what’s supposed to be happening. I thought maybe Deathstroke was trying to remove the ring and the exertion was what was causing him to buckle because him trying to use it without wearing it is strange but it is also a strange way to try to remove a ring so neither answer is entirely satisfactory. I actually jumped to the commentary at the end of the book just to see if they shed any light but nothing. I think the fight comes back down to earth a bit once Green Arrow stabs Deathstroke in the eye (why not stab him in his good eye and leave him blind? But I digress) and it becomes more of a brawl. I also caught the inclusion of Batman in Doctor Light’s recovered memory. Either Light’s memory is unreliable or Oliver left something out when telling the story. Again, the themes of secrets and trust rears its head even without words. Superman’s arrival fees like a parent arriving forcing the kids to keep quiet and offer up a story/excuse to explain their actions. The story Oliver tells about switching bodies is a call back to JLA 166 from the late 70s. This and Olvier talking about the “old days” and the “clean up” nobody talks about gave me a real Watchmen vibe again where the story is trying to look at typical classic comic book tropes and silliness but applying realistic considerations to them. We know the dangers in a villain finding out a hero’s secret identity and hoe many times that has happened over a hero’s publication history. On top of that if the villains were horrifically disturbed, not just in a comic book way where they plot elaborate schemes, but in a realistic way where they would simply just show up and kill a loved one, or worse. It definitely makes the mind wiping fee more of a necessary evil. The fact that it’s this small group within the league that’s doing it feels a bit like the group trying the Cylon collaborators in Battlestar Galactica (which obviously drew from post WWII history, or Rick Rememder’s X-Force where a small group does the dirty work in secret so the rest can keep its integrity. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I took this as Arrow's way of being a "good guy". Blinding someone is a big deal (Slade has some kind of healing factor though, so maybe it wouldn't have been permanent? not that important), especially when you don't *have* to do it. Stabbing him in his already-blind eye accomplished what he wanted without doing more damage than he needed to. I broadly agree about the fight, although I think you could make excuses if you wanted. The team is too bunched together on the street for them to jump in while Slade makes his initial moves, or what have you. And this does strike me as something of a secondary JL; most of them are pretty human or at least not super-resilient. But overall it didn't bother me too much. Some of the other fights/deaths seemed much less justified. |
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| I agree that the fight could’ve been worse. These kind of fights are just a pet peeve of mine in general. Also, did I miss something or did the Atom randomly switch to his civilian clothes when he scaled up after being hit with Deathstroke’s laser pointer? |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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| @dielinfinite the Atom changes clothes when shrinking/enlarging repeatedly through the series. Apparently (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(Ray_Palmer)) originally his costume was somewhat shrunk so that it was invisible when he was at full size, and then later he kept his costume in another dimension that he can access at will. I still don't understand why a laser pointer would fling him around. It's hard for me to imagine any internal consistency between that happening and his powers. |
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| That’s a weird way to go about things but very much kind with the comics of the early 60s, I guess. The best excuse I can make up for the laser pointer thing comes from the commentary where it is that it was referred to (either in the book or in the commentary) as “basically a laster pointer” so maybe it was some kind of energy weapon that outwardly appears like a laser pointer? Not sure what advantage it would have in having so fine a beam. Seems like a ping pong paddle would’ve worked just fine |
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| Issue more is more investigation. It doesn’t do a great deal to move the plot foreword but instead takes time to let characters express their states of mind. Everyone is understandably frustrated but you can see stress getting to Superman because he’s helpless to do anything and he knows who they’ll come to sooner or later. I agree that I like seeing the story from Green Arrow’s perspective. He seems like a very human and possibly the most relatable character in the story so far. I especially enjoyed his scene with Hal Jordan’s ghost. Despite the tension and frustrations obvious within the League, Oliver’s friendship with Hal really shines through. I really like that the story isn’t relying on the big three to drive the story. Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are certainly present but they are more on the periphery. Wonder Woman in particular is interesting. Despite being on the cover, you don’t see much of her in the issue. In fact, all you see is one panel with the stars of her costume and the lasso of truth on her hip. In the commentary the creators mention that they wanted to focus on the symbology of the characters and this scene is an example of that. Wonder Woman doesn’t even say a word but her presence is well felt. Other examples include the shot at Sue’s funeral with Wonder Woman, Flash, and Superman standing side-by-side but the focus primary on the emblems on their chests. When Superman appears after the fight with Deathstroke the first thing you see is his chest emblem. And of course, the cover for the final issue reduces all the characters to just their paraphernalia. I’m still not sure where the Captain Boomerang and Tim Drake subplots are going |
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| I personally really liked issue 5. I agree that Firestorm dies rather quickly but his death is used more to highlight the escalation in the heroes’ pressure on the villains for answers and the toll this obsession is taking on them. It’s not a glamorous death but it was dignified and, as Arrow’s narration says, professional. Arrow calls him Kid so perhaps he’s meant to be a younger member. Not as young as say Tim Drake but not an old veteran like Oliver or Clark or Diana. I agree that the final scenes were masterfully done. It really extended a brief moment to allow tension to stew. As for why Captain boomerang would do it? I can only say that throughout the series he’s really come across as down on his luck and past his prime. He’s nearly bald, he’s clearly not physically fit. His conversations with Calculator practically begging for work shows he’s desperately in need of money. It really feels like he’s trying to make that last meaningful connection in his life before he comes to his inevitable conclusion. Captain Boomerang certainly doesn’t seem to be the one behind the killings but he seems to be in a position to be taken advantage of by the person who is. |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I guess? Let me know if you catch any mention of his death afterward; I don't remember one. It felt to me like it was supposed to be raising, or at least demonstrating, the stakes but there was no actual impact to the plot or any characters. They basically just kill a guy in a page and everyone moves on. |
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| I can see where you’re going at but I think the death serves to communicate with the audience more so than to impact the story directly I’m not sure I’d say it’s demonstrating the stakes involved; the heroes aren't the ones in danger, at least not any more than they normally are. I think I think Firestar’s death is used to make a contrast. These are the heroes who are willing to put their lives on the line for their cause. The ones at stake are the loved ones that surround them that didn’t necessarily choose the life and lack the powers and skills to defend themselves. The heroes, finding themselves powerless to defend against this threat are going after the villains with a ferocity they don’t normally exhibit. Because of that open warfare they do lose one of their own but again, he’s choosing to be there and accepts the risks. The people they are fighting and in his case dying for are having danger thrust upon them. I don’t doubt that he gets little if any sendoff. The story is very much focused on the horror of the deaths of the powerless loved ones. From the focus on the circumstances of their deaths to the traumas they leave behind on the heroes. Whereas the deaths of the heroes are treated as a risk of the job, as with Firestar, or a temporary obstacle, as with Hal. |
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| I think issue 6 crystalozes the focus on the loved ones of the heroes and the lengths they want/need to go to protect them by way of keeping their identities secret. It feels very strange that anyone, even if it’s only briefly, is convinced that Captain Boomerang is guilty of the other murders. His MO is so much less sophisticated than the others; recklessly busting through the front door where the others the assailant seemingly materialized out of nowhere, bypassing the League’s security. It is interesting to see how the sum of these events has affected the status quo in the DC world. Doctor Light is a remewed threat. I am not sure if this story re-introduced him but it was the League’s attack that undid his mindwipe. Deathstroke has a new?renewed vendetta against Green Arrow. I’m actually not sure if Deathstroke had a significant presence in Green Arrow’s world prior to this since I’m more familiar with the earlier seasons of the show where he’s integrated rather closely to Green Arrow’s origin. There’s the new Captain Boomerang. And of course there’s bound to be fallout within the League given the secrets that have festered. Again, I do like how the story doesn’t rely on the big characters like Batman and Superman and instead uses them like larger than life symbols of ideals the “secret League” feels they had to violate. |
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| I agree that things get a little shaky but I think it hots the landing well enough. I think the hit on Jack was to give the League someone to blame, otherwise they’d keep searching. Again, it’s not the most airtight plan but Jean’s mind is clearly not well. I do agree that the book had a feeling of DC’s Black Label about it. Again, I think Watchmen was a major inspiration. It has comic book superheroes operating in what feels like a more grounded, less black-and-white world. It emphasizes the importance of their secret identities but considers that, given the kinds of threats and adventures they’ve gone through, keeping them is not a simple matter. It is suggested that both Superman and Batman are aware of what happened but even they let it slide, knowing the risks. The evil they face in the books is more mundane, in that it’s not some villain with a contrived scheme or a reality-shaping catastrophe that must be averted. It’s someone unwell doing something that only really makes sense to her. I think Meltzer’s pedigree as a novelist comes across in the pacing of the story. In a lot of superhero comics it fees like writers are obliged to include a battle or spectacle in every issue. This story was rather light on brawls but it knew when to dial up the tension, when to calm things down, when to let characters talk and express their emotions, and when to doss in some action. This is something I really like about the original Crisis on Infinite Earths as well. It has an ebb and flow to the action whereas many comic events feel like an uphill race to a climax without taking time for the themes, if any, to really sink in and stew in the readers’ minds. I don’t mind that a book gets ugly, necessarily, but I do feel that it made some unfortunate choices when it came to some of the female characters. Including the rape wasn’t a great choice but it could’ve worked but I don’t think it justified it’s inclusion as well as it could. Had the story had a conversation (in a greater sense, not just that some characters talked about) about assault, the traumas involved, etc, and made it one of its ongoing themes it would’ve made more sense. Instead it feels thrown in to shock you and then not mentioned again. Then there is Jean causing all this pain to het the attention of a man. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but I think a less clichéd motivation would’ve worked just as well if not better. I can understand why the story os controversial but I also think it’s one of the better event books because it doesn’t feel like an editorial obligation. It’s not a “we need to reboot everything so make it happen” situation. Instead it’s a story with high personal stakes for the characters that leaves many changes in its aftermath. |
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