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Needing help on stolen book17161

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
@Byrdibyrd The insurance agent I spoke with when I first bought my policy made a point to let me know that shipping with UPS wasn't covered. It had to do with UPS and their policies.
Post 51 IP   flag post
I have a problem with fattening women up. Bronte private msg quote post Address this user
@Byrdibyrd

If the above was a quote from their website, they do post it. If we as the consumer gloss through and don't read the fine print, that is kinda our fault....
Post 52 IP   flag post
Collector 50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user
Is definitely posted on their website. It pops up on the screen right after entering your submission.
Post 53 IP   flag post
Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
@Byrdibyrd The insurance agent I spoke with when I first bought my policy made a point to let me know that shipping with UPS wasn't covered. It had to do with UPS and their policies.

WOW, that is news to me. I've always shied away from UPS, and I feel lucky that I have.
Post 54 IP   flag post
Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
@Byrdibyrd

If the above was a quote from their website, they do post it. If we as the consumer gloss through and don't read the fine print, that is kinda our fault....

I can't argue. You're correct. I never really read through the UPS stuff because I never use them.
Post 55 IP   flag post


Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it! IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50AE_DE
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
It sounds like CGC didn't pay for additional insurance for the shipment, so the minimum of $100 that's included for every package shipping through UPS would apply. CGC should've insured it for the value you placed on your submission form. I know most grading companies, both for cards and comics, indicate the return shipping cost based on the insured value. [/b]


For domestic US return shipments via USPS Mail, CGC will purchase insurance on Customer’s behalf based on Customer’s declared values, up to $100,000 per package. The CCG Companies cannot provide or procure insurance for international return shipments to Customer.

UPS Ground
Maximum insurance value of $100 per package unless providing your own shipping carrier account number and insurance.


It looks like it only applies if shipped via USPS Mail, not UPS which is how the OP package was sent. Their shipping policy is clearly stated on their Return Shipping page.


The OP is out of luck, sorry to say. CGC clearly states when you select the return shipping service that you need to have your own shipping insurance if you use UPS or FedEx for return shipping. That UPS and FedEx packages are only insured for $100.

If you want full insured value on your package being returned to you, the only choice is USPS Registered mail.

The OP will get a check for $100 for the missing book from UPS (unless it shows up - fingers crossed). And this is not the first time packages have gone missing shipping UPS and FedEx. There is a long, long history of posts in the CGC forums from frantic collectors that did not realize UPS/FedEX shipments only have $100 of insurance. People have lost books worth tens of thousands of dollars.
Post 56 IP   flag post
"Forum Overlord" bah ha ha ha... JustThatGuy private msg quote post Address this user
Anything I send out over $150 is insured. I rather spend a few extra bucks to save a massive head like I did with UF4 that got lost with UPS.

I hope you get a favorable result back at the end.
Post 57 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
CGC states very clearly that it is submitter’s own risk once comics leave CGC. This is the new submission form but even in the old it was clearly stated that UPS only is insured up to $100 and that if you wish to have books insured you need to chose USPS registered mail.


Post 58 IP   flag post
Where's his Bat-package? Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
That explains why I never knew about their cruddy shipping insurance policy! I have a P.O. Box so all I ever see is the USPS option.
Post 59 IP   flag post
Hello, my name is Stu and I'm a shill. HexView private msg quote post Address this user
Sour grapes.

https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/505173-needing-help-book-stolen/
Post 60 IP   flag post
I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
It looks like I'm so biased against CGC I assumed they were trying to get out of paying for the lost book. I stand corrected. They clearly state the insurance coverage and the OP selected the cheapest option, even though he doesn't have a collectors insurance policy. CGC should still open a claim with UPS. Unfortunately CGC performed the services you paid for so a refund for the grading and signature fees doesn't sound like an option.
Post 61 IP   flag post
Collector Mmanick private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexView
Sour grapes.

https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/505173-needing-help-book-stolen/

Absolutely. I'm out a shit ton of time and fing cash
Post 62 IP   flag post
I have not set up at a con since 2029. PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
The cgc person also told me they looked at auction houses, sold listings and they believe 100 dollars is what they can give me


That CGC rep is clearly full of it. First they tell you to go to small claims court, suggesting you sue CGC even though you insured it for $175 and they owe you that or the FMV. Then they state a 9.4 Wolverine #1 Limited Series Signed by Frank Miller is $100 when it's closer to 3 times that much. Next time you call request to talk to a supervisor, get a reference number and don't stop complaining until they stop feeding you a bunch of bs. On top of this, I'd ask for a full refund for the grading and signing. What a bunch of pricks..the nerve of that company to say they're doing nothing to resolve your issue and you can sue them if you'd like. The company is responsible for their employees actions, if it was indeed stolen. This response is infuriating and it's not even my book.

For the time being you should at the very least contact your credit card company and explain that CGC has offered no proof that your package was actually picked up by UPS (unless I misread the above posts) and ask them to reverse any charges you paid for the grading and signing.

Edit: I looked on Ebay and a 9.4 is going for around $250-$300 unsigned, so at minimum $400 with the Miller signature. As it's their employee that may have stolen your property CGC should be liable for the full value, not what you insured it for.


To determine FMV of a Wolverine 1 CGC 9.4 Miller SS, when @Mmanick contacting CGC and UPS, best advice to give is to provide a screenshots of GPA for 30 day average,90 day average and as many of the last sales at 9.4 SS that will fit in one screenshot.
Post 63 IP   flag post
Collector PDGray private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicHoarder

To determine FMV of a Wolverine 1 CGC 9.4 Miller SS, when @Mmanick contacting CGC and UPS, best advice to give is to provide a screenshots of GPA for 30 day average,90 day average and as many of the last sales at 9.4 SS that will fit in one screenshot.


This does not, however, change the amount that the package was insured for. It might, however, help if he had collectors insurance.


PDG
Post 64 IP   flag post
Hello, my name is Stu and I'm a shill. HexView private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicHoarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
The cgc person also told me they looked at auction houses, sold listings and they believe 100 dollars is what they can give me


That CGC rep is clearly full of it. First they tell you to go to small claims court, suggesting you sue CGC even though you insured it for $175 and they owe you that or the FMV. Then they state a 9.4 Wolverine #1 Limited Series Signed by Frank Miller is $100 when it's closer to 3 times that much. Next time you call request to talk to a supervisor, get a reference number and don't stop complaining until they stop feeding you a bunch of bs. On top of this, I'd ask for a full refund for the grading and signing. What a bunch of pricks..the nerve of that company to say they're doing nothing to resolve your issue and you can sue them if you'd like. The company is responsible for their employees actions, if it was indeed stolen. This response is infuriating and it's not even my book.

For the time being you should at the very least contact your credit card company and explain that CGC has offered no proof that your package was actually picked up by UPS (unless I misread the above posts) and ask them to reverse any charges you paid for the grading and signing.

Edit: I looked on Ebay and a 9.4 is going for around $250-$300 unsigned, so at minimum $400 with the Miller signature. As it's their employee that may have stolen your property CGC should be liable for the full value, not what you insured it for.


To determine FMV of a Wolverine 1 CGC 9.4 Miller SS, when @Mmanick contacting CGC and UPS, best advice to give is to provide a screenshots of GPA for 30 day average,90 day average and as many of the last sales at 9.4 SS that will fit in one screenshot.
This is all irrelevant. It's the same as if you send in a $1,000 book but you cheap out and only claim/insure it as a $100 book. When the book is damaged or lost, you're only going to get $100. You'll never get "current market value".
Post 65 IP   flag post
I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. GAC private msg quote post Address this user
Sadly, if the insurance wasn't purchased and CGC outlines it in their T of S, that's what you agreed to when sending in your book.

It sucks that it happened but that's why insurance should be purchased or choose a different method of shipping.
Post 66 IP   flag post
I have not set up at a con since 2029. PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronte
Forgive the stupid question. Is the book suppossed to come from CGC to your house and it got stolen somehow?

If that's the case, cgc is responsible to get the book to you. What did post office say the geo location of last whereabouts was?


They told me to get a lawyer or file a police report maybe try small claims court. The package apparently never left the facility so I'm thinking it was an employee who stole it.


May have been an employee, but probably more than just one.

I have a pretty much foolproof idea on how to get FMV for the slab back, depending on what method of shipping you paid for i.e. how much insurance coverage you paid for.

If Maria at CGC, whom you spoke to, told you accurate info about a "string of robberies happened" is correct, and I highly doubt she would guess about that or pull it out of thin air, than it would appear that UPS employee(s) are grabbing CGC boxes out of UPS warehoouses and/or off their own trucks.

First step to take is to get more clarifying info on what Maria told you over the phone, in writing. Sounds like maria may have slipped up and related info about UPS thefts that her managers wouldnt be happy about.

Email Maria directly, would be good to have what she told you over the phone in writing as it'd be helpful in [b]*creating a thread about this on the CGC Forum, other CGC customrs must be having the same problem and CGC does not want their customers to lose confidence in them WRT theft. That said, the onus is primarily on UPS.

[b]Seems like the reason that both CGC and UPS, moreso UPS, want you to drop this and move on is that it's not CGC's responsibility once the shipping carrier takes possesion and it's a headache/bad PR they don't need....but UPS doesnt want to pay off not just yourself, but also the unknown quantity of other customers that have been theft victims from this string of robberies. This could be thousands or hundreds of thousands in lost revenue from thieves.


That's especially evident as UPS closed your claims on the slab, each time you opened the claim, without you asking to do so or any cause to do so other than to brush you under the rug.

Once you get this info from Maria, create a thread on CGC's board...but make itall much more clear than your opening post in this thread.

Include all pertinent info, including the declared FMV on your submission invoice and what shipping method you paid for, as well as any written response from Maria etc.


CGC boardies who have had similiar theft situations from UPS will weigh in there.

I can say that some UPS drivers do actually just drop off UPS packages at random houses but it's more likely that most lost packages are due to employee thievery.

My guess is that it is temp employees and contractors (dudes who UPS hires to deliver packages using their own vehicle) that are the thieves...most UPS drivers are there as a career and get paid well...but OTOH, I'm sure veteran UPS truck drivers rip packages as well, they would actually be the most efficient at doing so.

FWIW ...A UPS contractor (dude in his personal car, not a UPS truck)gave me a box shipped from mycomicshop, which I signed for, about 3 months ago during the holiday season.

He also handed me a box addressed to someone else, in another town... Which he didnt have me sign for....dude wasn't wearing a mask when he came to my door so I didnt want to talk to him about the other package that he just handed to me under the MCS box.

I called UPS the next day and a driver came out to pick up the misdelivered package....it was from L.L. Bean. Can't remember if it was addressed to address nearby in my town, a neighboring town or another state.

FWIW #2....A couple weeks ago while walking my dog I saw a UPS box just tossed on the grass/curbstrip of a house.

Package was addressed to someone in another state. I just picked it up and put it on their porch so it wouldnt be thrown out or boosted by a random passerby.
Post 67 IP   flag post
I have not set up at a con since 2029. PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by 50AE_DE
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
It sounds like CGC didn't pay for additional insurance for the shipment, so the minimum of $100 that's included for every package shipping through UPS would apply. CGC should've insured it for the value you placed on your submission form. I know most grading companies, both for cards and comics, indicate the return shipping cost based on the insured value. [/b]


For domestic US return shipments via USPS Mail, CGC will purchase insurance on Customer’s behalf based on Customer’s declared values, up to $100,000 per package. The CCG Companies cannot provide or procure insurance for international return shipments to Customer.

UPS Ground
Maximum insurance value of $100 per package unless providing your own shipping carrier account number and insurance.


It looks like it only applies if shipped via USPS Mail, not UPS which is how the OP package was sent. Their shipping policy is clearly stated on their Return Shipping page.


The OP is out of luck, sorry to say. CGC clearly states when you select the return shipping service that you need to have your own shipping insurance if you use UPS or FedEx for return shipping. That UPS and FedEx packages are only insured for $100.

If you want full insured value on your package being returned to you, the only choice is USPS Registered mail.

The OP will get a check for $100 for the missing book from UPS (unless it shows up - fingers crossed). And this is not the first time packages have gone missing shipping UPS and FedEx. There is a long, long history of posts in the CGC forums from frantic collectors that did not realize UPS/FedEX shipments only have $100 of insurance. People have lost books worth tens of thousands of dollars.


Ah, I didn't know the OP went with the cheapest shipping option from UPS....that changes the lengthy reply to him which I just posted a minute ago.

Been a while since I subbed to CGC but coulda sworn the last time I did there were more shipping options available to get more than just $100 in coverage.
Post 68 IP   flag post
I have not set up at a con since 2029. PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexView
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicHoarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
The cgc person also told me they looked at auction houses, sold listings and they believe 100 dollars is what they can give me


That CGC rep is clearly full of it. First they tell you to go to small claims court, suggesting you sue CGC even though you insured it for $175 and they owe you that or the FMV. Then they state a 9.4 Wolverine #1 Limited Series Signed by Frank Miller is $100 when it's closer to 3 times that much. Next time you call request to talk to a supervisor, get a reference number and don't stop complaining until they stop feeding you a bunch of bs. On top of this, I'd ask for a full refund for the grading and signing. What a bunch of pricks..the nerve of that company to say they're doing nothing to resolve your issue and you can sue them if you'd like. The company is responsible for their employees actions, if it was indeed stolen. This response is infuriating and it's not even my book.

For the time being you should at the very least contact your credit card company and explain that CGC has offered no proof that your package was actually picked up by UPS (unless I misread the above posts) and ask them to reverse any charges you paid for the grading and signing.

Edit: I looked on Ebay and a 9.4 is going for around $250-$300 unsigned, so at minimum $400 with the Miller signature. As it's their employee that may have stolen your property CGC should be liable for the full value, not what you insured it for.


To determine FMV of a Wolverine 1 CGC 9.4 Miller SS, when @Mmanick contacting CGC and UPS, best advice to give is to provide a screenshots of GPA for 30 day average,90 day average and as many of the last sales at 9.4 SS that will fit in one screenshot.
This is all irrelevant. It's the same as if you send in a $1,000 book but you cheap out and only claim/insure it as a $100 book. When the book is damaged or lost, you're only going to get $100. You'll never get "current market value".


Correct, I was unaware the OP didnt pay for more than $100 in coverage from the shipping carrier.
Post 69 IP   flag post
I have not set up at a con since 2029. PolarisNuclearSS2020 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexView
Sour grapes.

https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/505173-needing-help-book-stolen/

Absolutely. I'm out a shit ton of time and fing cash


yes.

if I were you, I'd still file charges against UPS for theft.

And would be better to have an email from Maria, or another CGC employee, stating what she said WRT a "string of robberies" et al, to add into the police report.

Dunno if internal theft at UPS would carry the same charges as theft at USPS, which is IIRC a state and federal crime.

That may turn up your slab, but the point of filing charges would be moreso for not letting yourself be ripped off so willingly by a ring of thieves at UPS.

At least next time you will have learned your lesson to pay for insurance past $100.
Post 70 IP   flag post
Collector Mmanick private msg quote post Address this user
**update: Spoke to shipping manager from UPS and in his investigation hes telling me the package has never left the CGC in Sarasota FL they concluded that the package is lost somewhere in cgc's warehouse or vault. called to talk with cgc and still cant get a hold of a supervisor.
Post 71 IP   flag post
Collector Mmanick private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexView
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicHoarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
The cgc person also told me they looked at auction houses, sold listings and they believe 100 dollars is what they can give me


That CGC rep is clearly full of it. First they tell you to go to small claims court, suggesting you sue CGC even though you insured it for $175 and they owe you that or the FMV. Then they state a 9.4 Wolverine #1 Limited Series Signed by Frank Miller is $100 when it's closer to 3 times that much. Next time you call request to talk to a supervisor, get a reference number and don't stop complaining until they stop feeding you a bunch of bs. On top of this, I'd ask for a full refund for the grading and signing. What a bunch of pricks..the nerve of that company to say they're doing nothing to resolve your issue and you can sue them if you'd like. The company is responsible for their employees actions, if it was indeed stolen. This response is infuriating and it's not even my book.

For the time being you should at the very least contact your credit card company and explain that CGC has offered no proof that your package was actually picked up by UPS (unless I misread the above posts) and ask them to reverse any charges you paid for the grading and signing.

Edit: I looked on Ebay and a 9.4 is going for around $250-$300 unsigned, so at minimum $400 with the Miller signature. As it's their employee that may have stolen your property CGC should be liable for the full value, not what you insured it for.


To determine FMV of a Wolverine 1 CGC 9.4 Miller SS, when @Mmanick contacting CGC and UPS, best advice to give is to provide a screenshots of GPA for 30 day average,90 day average and as many of the last sales at 9.4 SS that will fit in one screenshot.
This is all irrelevant. It's the same as if you send in a $1,000 book but you cheap out and only claim/insure it as a $100 book. When the book is damaged or lost, you're only going to get $100. You'll never get "current market value".


now that im being told my package never left cgc that changes everything.
Post 72 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Can’t keep up with the changing storyline.
Post 73 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
Who’s on first
Post 74 IP   flag post
Collector PDGray private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexView
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicHoarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
The cgc person also told me they looked at auction houses, sold listings and they believe 100 dollars is what they can give me


That CGC rep is clearly full of it. First they tell you to go to small claims court, suggesting you sue CGC even though you insured it for $175 and they owe you that or the FMV. Then they state a 9.4 Wolverine #1 Limited Series Signed by Frank Miller is $100 when it's closer to 3 times that much. Next time you call request to talk to a supervisor, get a reference number and don't stop complaining until they stop feeding you a bunch of bs. On top of this, I'd ask for a full refund for the grading and signing. What a bunch of pricks..the nerve of that company to say they're doing nothing to resolve your issue and you can sue them if you'd like. The company is responsible for their employees actions, if it was indeed stolen. This response is infuriating and it's not even my book.

For the time being you should at the very least contact your credit card company and explain that CGC has offered no proof that your package was actually picked up by UPS (unless I misread the above posts) and ask them to reverse any charges you paid for the grading and signing.

Edit: I looked on Ebay and a 9.4 is going for around $250-$300 unsigned, so at minimum $400 with the Miller signature. As it's their employee that may have stolen your property CGC should be liable for the full value, not what you insured it for.


To determine FMV of a Wolverine 1 CGC 9.4 Miller SS, when @Mmanick contacting CGC and UPS, best advice to give is to provide a screenshots of GPA for 30 day average,90 day average and as many of the last sales at 9.4 SS that will fit in one screenshot.
This is all irrelevant. It's the same as if you send in a $1,000 book but you cheap out and only claim/insure it as a $100 book. When the book is damaged or lost, you're only going to get $100. You'll never get "current market value".


now that im being told my package never left cgc that changes everything.



I sincerely hope it shows up. Keep checking the tracking data of the package. Offer to insure it for its true value if you still can, or provide your own shipping account if you can.

Honestly, I think we are all pulling for you. None of us in the hobby want to see anyone else ripped off or robbed. GOOD LUCK!!


PDG
Post 75 IP   flag post
Collector Mmanick private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
Everything relating to what happened to the package is speculative. Lost, stolen, still en-route? Who knows.

From the above none of this is a CGC matter other than the insured value payout being passed along to the customer.

As for UPS directly helping, good luck. I can’t see anything more than a payout to CGC and perhaps the standard investigation depending on where they lost track. They won’t take responsibility on dollar value beyond the amount insured.

They lost a boat of mine in transit. A boat. Roughly 100 pounds, very large box, boat. They opened an investigation. Seller had orchestrated the shipping so I simply received a replacement.

Sorry to hear about the crappy outcome but it sometimes pays to read the terms.


Read my about post and last update UPS is claiming my package never left from cgc headqaurters.
Post 76 IP   flag post
" . " Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
@Mmanick I see that. Head spinning from the changing storyline.

Once you’ve documented your issue it may make sense to let the dust settle for a few days and then try the relevant parties again.
Post 77 IP   flag post
Collector Mmanick private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
@Mmanick I see that. Head spinning from the changing storyline.

Once you’ve documented your issue it may make sense to let the dust settle for a few days and then try the relevant parties again.
exactly how I felt when the manager told me that and now when I call cgc the manager won’t even speak to me.
Post 78 IP   flag post
Thank you sir. May I have another? Siggy private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
**update: Spoke to shipping manager from UPS and in his investigation hes telling me the package has never left the CGC in Sarasota FL they concluded that the package is lost somewhere in cgc's warehouse or vault. called to talk with cgc and still cant get a hold of a supervisor.


Hmm. So someone at UPS is claiming someone at CGC managed to hack the tracking system and enter false info stating the package was delayed in Bakersfield.
Nope.
Post 79 IP   flag post
Collector poka private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmanick
**update: Spoke to shipping manager from UPS and in his investigation hes telling me the package has never left the CGC in Sarasota FL they concluded that the package is lost somewhere in cgc's warehouse or vault. called to talk with cgc and still cant get a hold of a supervisor.


Hmm. So someone at UPS is claiming someone at CGC managed to hack the tracking system and enter false info stating the package was delayed in Bakersfield.
Nope.


Yup - would be curious what the tracking says.

Btw - so it took CGC 1 week to grade and ship the book. That must be a record

OP - hope you get your book.
Post 80 IP   flag post
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