Tennessee School Bans ‘Maus’ Graphic Novel16790
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Nothing like a good controversy on a book to increase the value. |
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| @OGJackster Yeah. I got the hardcover off the comicswap group on Reddit because they were backordered so far on Amazon. | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim Yup. Exactly this. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd If you read the minutes from the meeting, you will find that there isn’t an objection, nor are they attempting to not teach the students about the Holocaust. From the discussion in the meeting, it appears that the Holocaust is an 8th grade subject in TN that has statewide curriculum attached to it. The meeting touches on the graphic novel being the work used in the 3rd of 4 teaching modules. In the minutes, the objections seem to be centered around the language used in the graphic novel and the small amount of nudity found in it. From what I could gather, there seems to be some rule or rules surrounding the use of certain words and images within their local school system. Also, from what I could gather in the minutes, it appears that TN has laws that allow the local school boards to alter the instructional modules at the local level to fit into what local standards are - the minutes get confusing at different points. The board attempts to discuss getting permission to block out the words or images at one point. It is countered with a discussion about the legal jeopardy doing that might cause to the school system. Lastly, this might have been a discussion at last year's school board meeting, but the module was never taught due to the slow pace of tele-instruction due to their schools being closed. Of course, my last sentence is conjecture as it was never taught. |
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| Yeah. I saw the statement on the nudity & language. It’s just so minimal, it seems crazy to me that anyone would pick out those tiny details & feel the need to discard the book. | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater This is exactly what I was referring to before; ignoring the context, ignoring the full INTENT of the story. Regarding the nudity in question: that SINGLE, small picture is of a corpse...a dead woman's body after she has committed suicide because of untreated/undiagnosed depression. To ban this "nudity" because it might turn some 6th, 7th or 8th grader into a snarling, axe-wielding rapist is an idea that only a short-sighted ignorant fool would formulate. There are consequences to evil, genocidal regimes...why do we need safe, sanitized stories about real-life horrors such as the Holocaust? Regarding the strong language: can't we all agree that most of those kids have a phone in their pockets that exposes them to much, MUCH worse language than in Maus every single day? By the time I was in 8th grade I had seen at least a dozen R rated movies on cable TV and, miracle of miracles, I didn't turn into an irredeemable criminal. |
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| A school board is making decisions on behalf of my children and other peoples children. I have no problem if they err on the side of discretion. I'm the same way when other people's kids are staying at our house. When other parents children are here we're going to be more conservative in our decisions of what the kids do. Probably even what they eat. They may do things that we are unaware of, but it won't be because we as parents sanctioned it. It's called erring on the side of discretion. It's not because we are short-sighted ignorant fools who are concerned that the kids might grow up to be snarling ax-wielding rapist. It's something parents do when they have respect for other parents. | ||
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Back in Ye Olden Dayes when I was in school, we had that revolutionary invention called the 'permission slip.' We had them for field trips and also for any subjects that might be considered questionable, like sex education (that taught absolutely nothing about sex) and drug education. Anyone whose parents did not expressly give permission went to a different classroom and did something else (I don't know what - I always had permission and so did all my friends) while the students with less uptight parents got to have the scheduled class. I don't see why that can't apply with something like "Maus." If the intent is to study the Holocaust, have an alternative, like Anne Frank's diary or excerpts from it, for kids who don't have permission to read "Maus." If the intent is to study literature, then we still have a problem. | ||
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| @Byrdibyrd We used to have a hunting and fishing session in 6th grade PE back when I was in school. As skill tests, we utilized 22lr rifles and a bow and arrow to shoot targets. To conduct them, we went on field trips to a gun range. We practiced with pellet guns on school grounds while learning about weapon safety. Students had firearms in their vehicles in the parking high school lot, and they were allowed to have them. My older brother was one of them. (He and his friends would all go dove hunting after school.) None of that is going to happen in today's world. Well, high schoolers might go dove hunting but they aren't bringing a shotgun in their vehicle and leaving it in the parking lot on a window rack. I think that school board was attempting to find another text to use in that module. |
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater I was on my high school ROTC rifle team. We practiced on an indoor rifle range in the basement of the PE Field house and we used very nice old Springfield 22lr. We competed around the state and we all needed to have the same rifle, so the school provided them for us. We were a varsity-level sport, but sadly the school had ceased recognising it as such shortly before I joined, so no one was able to get a varsity letter. Even so, it was a great program. Not only will we never have that program in school anymore, but I'm not even sure if anyone even has high school ROTC. That's too bad, because ROTC taught a lot of great skills, like first aid, map reading, field RTO, and leadership training. |
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| I'm just finishing my second reading of Maus and I'm picking up some interesting details that I either didn't pick up on before or had forgotten about. One of the things I noticed is how often he uses cigarette smoking in the drawings. It would be an easy detail to overlook, but Spiegelman apparently made a conscious effort to put cigarettes into the hands of the smokers in the story (including himself). It's actually a very effective little detail for continually reminding the readers subconscious that the mice represent real people. And this is a point that Spiegelman makes to his father early on...the details will be important to bringing out the humanity in the story. Has Maus been a part of the forum reading club yet? | ||
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia If it hasn't, it should be. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia It has not, but any of the literally everybody besides me and @dielinfinite can suggest it at any time. I try to pick things I haven't already read. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia School is a place for kids to learn and grow, and doing that is sometimes uncomfortable and challenging. It isn't the same thing as when people come to your house to hang out. A closer analogy to kids visiting is probably the teachers not swearing at the students every five minutes. Decorum is a separate issue from what the kids are taught. |
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| Good read… - need to read it again | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater This was my world growing up, too. I wish it came back. |
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| I don't know if any of you heard but local news says that "Nirvana Comics" out in Knoxville set up a go-fund-me to raise money to buy copies of "Maus" for any student that wanted a copy. Their goal was 20K and they're to date raised over 90K.   I looked up, that school is in McMinn county, not Knox county. They've got 2 high schools, seven middle schools and seven elementary, 5500 students today as of 2022 census. So they should be able to buy copies for those 8th graders with 90K. Interesting to see how that plays out. |
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| @dfoster43 What happens to the money if 90K worth of the books aren't asked for by students? | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater I don't know how GoFundMe things work. But at the rising prices maybe they'll need it. I have no idea. A couple 9.4's for H181 maybe? |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Thread or book? |
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Quote:Originally Posted by dfoster43 Both of my students will be requesting a copy. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater I’m guessing they buy all the copies they can with however much they raise. Maybe shipping is covered to mail it to students? |
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| @Towmater Looks to me like a publicity stunt arranged around a fundraiser to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Those don't always end well: https://www.gofundme.com/f/nirvana-comics-knoxville-project-maus?qid=5648f0ed2a05d341242bbe4ce2f8ef8c |
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| @EbayMafia maybe you're cynical, maybe you're 100% accurate. I dunno. But they do say "All funds will be used to purchase Maus for students local and across the US! " the "across the US" would imply that they at least need to get the word out to "everywhere" that might ban this or even maybe schools that EMBRACE that sort of thing but can't afford it. But they'd still need to get the word out, if that ends up being advantageous for them as a business then it's no more the sort of self-serving promotion than any other business doing something nice that results in some more visibility for themselves. From food drives to raffles, businesses do things to both help AND to get promotion so ... I don't mind a "win-win" if it gets some people a graphic novel that opens their hearts and minds. |
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| Well we can all agree that this tempest in a teapot is bringing a lot of awareness to a very worthy book. Hopefully this will get it added to more curriculums, if not in 8th grade then maybe in high school. In reading it a second time, it really is masterful in how it represents so much of the Holocaust through the experiences of a single person. I'll bet 95% of high school students have never read Maus, so I'm not fretting over the deprivation of a few 8th graders in Tennessee. I'm sure they have other important books on their curriculum, just like every other school district. | ||
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Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia Agreed, and I think (hope) we can agree that the Holocaust and all the related and myriad reasons why came about, was allowed to occur, and how it affected the world is a subject that needs to be taught. If it can reach more people and express into them the importance of the subject matter and create critical thinkers whil in the form of a graphic novel and do it more effectively than a dry textbook than more power to it. There are other formats - video, movies, documentaries, etc. but there are reason why they may not be necessarily appropriate in a schoolroom setting. And at that young age a graphic novel (comic book) format and the visual impact of the art, the obvious trope/metaphor of Cat Vs. Mouse all kids are familiar with break it down into (no pun intended) the simplicity "Black & White" of it makes it more impactful or resonate more clearly well, then its served its purpose even more. Years ago, when I showed it to my mother (whose father, my grandfather, was in WWII, Normandy, and came home a different person according to my grandmother) it moved her to tears and she thanked me for giving it to her. I'd never seen her react like that to that subject matter, not the 'Holocaust' mini-series or war movies, etc. so ... it has impact. |
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| After Tennessee school board bans Holocaust novel 'Maus,' comic book stores send students copies Gabriela Miranda USA TODAY clickable text After a Tennessee school board voted to ban "Maus," a graphic novel about the Holocaust, comic book store owners in California and Tennessee offered copies of the book to students. Ryan Higgins owns Comics Conspiracy in California and tweeted that he'd ship 100 copies to families in McMinn County, Tennessee, where the Pulitzer-winning novel is banned. Following suit, Knoxville Nirvana Comics announced it would loan copies of "Maus" to students. The comic store started a GoFundMe page to raise money to donate novels to families. The fundraiser passed its goal of $20,000, receiving more than $101,000 by midday Wednesday.  "Maus" follows a Jewish family's experience with antisemitism and their time at the Auschwitz concentration camp. Jewish people in the novel are depicted as mice, and Nazis are cats. The novel was included in McMinn County's eighth grade English and language arts curriculum. Last month, the county school board voted to ban the novel because of "rough" language and a drawing of a nude woman. 'Absurd':Author of 'Maus' condemns Tennessee school's decision to pull book on Holocaust What's everyone talking about? Sign up for our trending newsletter to get the latest news Author Art Spiegelman said he was alarmed by the board's decision. "This is not about left versus right," Spiegelman told The Tennessean, part of the USA TODAY Network. "This is about a culture war that's gotten totally out of control." Since offering "Maus" for free, Higgins told CNN the shop's "phone has been ringing off the hook," and he ran out of copies and will have to order more. "It should be required reading for everybody," Rich Davis, co-owner of Knoxville Nirvana Comics, told CNN. "If we don't show them what the Holocaust was, the next generation may think it wasn't so bad, and then the next generation may think the Holocaust didn't happen, and then the next generation is repeating the Holocaust." 'Maus' sales soar:'Maus' sales soar after book is banned by Tennessee school board. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by MaryJohnson While I don't have an issue with classes that encourage young people to develop critical thinking skills (that would be things like lit), I am very much in agreement on the lack of basic life skills courses. So many schools no longer have home ec or driver's ed or shop or anything like that. I remember all of those (though I didn't take shop) plus classes like typing (showing my age now. Oops). We need to get away from the tiresome and, frankly, harmful idea that the only classes our kids need to take are ones that will contribute to their SAT scores. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd We also need to get away from the idea that it is the school system's responsibility to raise our kids and teach them everything they need to know. School is not a substitution for parenting. |
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