Tennessee School Bans ‘Maus’ Graphic Novel16790
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jokioo private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia I read this book in eighth grade, and I would echo the sentiments of @Byrdibyrd. I think that book was the perfect and most inoffensive way to approach the Holocaust with care and depth. By eighth grade everyone has some conception of what the Holocaust was. The reality is that in this day and age, some of these conversations have to start younger, because well, the internet exists. I'm sure most sixth graders have seen memes about the Holocaust, heard it talked about on TV, etc. It's truly inconceivable to many older generations just how profoundly the internet has shaped the younger generations of today. Unfortunately, when kids start to learn about things of that magnitude, even if it seems young to adults, it is important to address them. Maus for me was a great way of doing so, and was the most memorable book that I read that entire year. |
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 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia Regardless of what you consider it, peanut-based foods would be banned from that school district. They officially prohibited it (in the kitchen and vending machines probably). Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia Has this actually happened? Or is this hyperbole? Regardless, confiscation, search and seizure, all of that, is enforcement of a ban. The ban is the act of officially prohibiting something. How they choose to enforce it is another subject all together. Many businesses and schools ban guns. Some install metal detectors and hire security. Some don't. Guns are still banned in all of them. |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jesse_O Yes, there are both. There are schools that have taken peanut products out of their menus and there are schools that have disallowed them on campus altogether. To differentiate between the two, I would use the word "ban" in the second case but not in the first situation. But maybe we're getting to deep into the semantics of the word. It's possible that the definition of the word "ban" is less strictly defined than I always assumed it to be. | ||
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 You can't get good wood on the ball every time.
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HotKeyComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "Banning" foods because some people can have severe physical and sometimes life threatening reactions to exposure to them is nowhere in the same ballpark or league as banning a book that cannot cause any physical harm, unless you use it to smack someone upside the head, Cobra-Kai style. | ||
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @HotKeyComics nobody was equating the two, we were just discussing the definition of "ban". I don't like the idea that "removed from the menu" equates to a ban, but I'm open to the idea that there is a broader and less impactful definition of the word than I had realized. | ||
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It was banned from the curriculum. I think we’re debating semantics at this point and heading towards a lock. Which is fine, if the discussion has reached its conclusion. | ||
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim I hit the check mark by accident. Please don't read into it that I'm looking to lock this. So far, it has been a great discussion imo. |
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| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
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dennisqdw private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just read through this all -impressed at how we're skating close to "politics" but not too close. I'd like to suggest that the best education should always push kids just beyond what they understand. During the first pass at algebra, most kids won't get it. Some will totally get it, and some won't ever get it. The same applies to Romeo and Juliet. And the same applies to Maus. The first two however don't really touch on any of the hot-button issues of today. No matter how you slice it, Maus does. Parents always want to protect their children, and the line between over-protection and under-protection will always be contested, even amongst both parents of the same child. I don't think the debate should be over what banning means, but how do people come together and make decisions that are in the best interest for most children. If you use standards for the lowest performing or most protected child than algebra might not be taught until college. Maus is especially provocative because it is in "comic book" form. And everyone on this forum is well aware of the comic book controversy of the 1950s. Does anyone here think that "headlights" in comics back then turned anyone into a juvenile delinquent? If so, then the conversation becomes what's the best way to ensure that such things don't happen. I'm inclined to think that keeping children from reading comic books back then would have made no difference. And I'm inclined now to think that keeping children from reading Maus only means that the necessary difficult conversations won't happen. Which may be the point. |
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim You are correct, we are debating the semantics of the word "ban". But no need for a lock. I've been checking to see what book they will replace it with. Haven't found out yet, but I think that will be interesting. I'm guessing it won't be Watchmen, lol. |
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| Post 59 • IP flag post | ||
 Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jokioo You bring up an interesting point. Internet exposure to the Holocaust, or any traumatic historic event, needs to be clarified for young people. There is so much rubbish out there that something needs to happen to ensure that the real information gets just as much of a chance as the BS. Providing people with books like "Maus" is a harmless way make that work. |
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia ‘The Catcher in the Rye’, maybe?  |
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| Post 61 • IP flag post | ||
 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim Never read that book but I've been told by a couple of people that it is a very boring book. |
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jokioo @jokioo we all know that you are an old soul. You probably had college level maturity in 8th grade, I was still a moron. I read it first year in college and that seemed like the perfect time to me. To your point, I'm actually reading it again and realizing my 6th grade daughter would be fine with it. Kids definitely grow up faster in the internet/cable age than they did in my day. My daughter binge watches Simpsons and Blue Bloods and my son binge watches South Park, so there's not a lot that they aren't aware of. |
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim That also came to mind, lol. |
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| Post 64 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Part of the problem, and leaning toward the idea of a 'ban', is that they got rid of Maus with no suggestion for a replacement. Also: "At one point during the board meeting, one of the members, Rob Shamblin, asked what other books the school would have to remove from the curriculum if it removed this one on the basis on foul language. Classic books on elementary school reading lists, such as “Bridge to Terabithia,” “The Whipping Boy” and “To Kill a Mockingbird,” also include foul language, a school principal said. “That falls under another topic for another day,” the chairman, Sharon Brown, said." So they took it out with no particular back-up plan, and it may or may not be consistent with how they treat other books in the curriculum. Not a good look, as they say. |
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk And that’s a big part of it, too. It sets a bad precedent. If the language and violence is the sticking point, what other books are soon to be brought into question? |
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KMiracleman private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I absolutely loved Maus; it came out when I was a senior in high school and I read both volumes in one night..couldn't put it down. Highly recommended. Watching that CNN video at the top of this thread, I'm shocked at the poor grammar being used by a member of a school board; I know they're not educators,just members of the community who were elected,but still - poorly worded and inarticulate is the kindest way to describe his idiotic rambling (you really want to use the term "hanging and stuff"? Really?). What makes me so upset about most of the books being banned from school libraries is the simple fact that most of the parents and school board members have NOT EVEN READ THE DAMN BOOKS..they just hear from a student or a friend, or read some stupid internet article, and decide based on their emotional reaction rather than actually reading the material and making a decision from a more enlightened place. I hate these fools and I feel very sorry for the children who have to suffer from their supposed "caretakers" and "educators" prejudices and shortsightedness. |
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| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
 Cover, 8 pages before the staples, 8 pages after, back cover.
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MrNotSoNice private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Maus is a milestone book that elevated the graphic novel form to important literature, and made the horror story of the Holocaust accessible to people of all ages, including young people. I still have my copy. This school board is a terrible example for the kids in their district. Tennessee is such a stupid state, maybe we could trade it for Puerto Rico. |
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| Post 68 • IP flag post | ||
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Where's his Bat-package?
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That a book as great as "Maus" is being dismissed by a bunch of shortsighted knuckleheads who are clearly doing this for personal reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with protecting their kids (No discussion of other books that have committed the same 'sins'? Really?) is just obscene. Denying young people access to art, literature and history is never for the greater good. | ||
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MrNotSoNice At least in Tennessee we know how to count comic book pages. |
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| Post 70 • IP flag post | ||
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson It's good that stupid people have the option to live in a stupid state. Otherwise we would be forced to live among the smart people. And we might f*ck up the places where smart people live. |
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| Post 71 • IP flag post | ||
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dfoster43 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by southerncross  Unlike "Maus" there's no pictures, so you have to cut it some slack.  |
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| Post 72 • IP flag post | ||
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dfoster43 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MrNotSoNice Hypocrisy aside, let's not use the actions of an incredibly small and inconsequential group of people who made a knee-jerk decision (in this case a terrible school board) as an example of an entire state. |
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| Post 73 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Seems like a bunch of nothing to me that got blown into something it isn't. The information I can find says that the book got pulled from a reading list. The subject matter is still taught and the school system is looking for material that is more age-appropriate to use in the classroom. |
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| Post 74 • IP flag post | ||
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The point is, is it the subject of the Holocaust that’s off limits for 8th graders? Because, I think they’ll have a hard time finding a book that covers the subject that doesn’t touch on hanging. And well, mass murder. What are they possibly going to replace ‘Maus’ with, that won’t make people uncomfortable? It’s an uncomfortable subject. It seems more like, “I don’t want my kids knowing about this”, than “this book has pictures of people hanging!” I don’t know. Seems like coddling, at the very least. |
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OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user | |
Nothing like a good controversy on a book to increase the value. |
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| Post 76 • IP flag post | ||
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @OGJackster Yeah. I got the hardcover off the comicswap group on Reddit because they were backordered so far on Amazon. | ||
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Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim Yup. Exactly this. |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd If you read the minutes from the meeting, you will find that there isn’t an objection, nor are they attempting to not teach the students about the Holocaust. From the discussion in the meeting, it appears that the Holocaust is an 8th grade subject in TN that has statewide curriculum attached to it. The meeting touches on the graphic novel being the work used in the 3rd of 4 teaching modules. In the minutes, the objections seem to be centered around the language used in the graphic novel and the small amount of nudity found in it. From what I could gather, there seems to be some rule or rules surrounding the use of certain words and images within their local school system. Also, from what I could gather in the minutes, it appears that TN has laws that allow the local school boards to alter the instructional modules at the local level to fit into what local standards are - the minutes get confusing at different points. The board attempts to discuss getting permission to block out the words or images at one point. It is countered with a discussion about the legal jeopardy doing that might cause to the school system. Lastly, this might have been a discussion at last year's school board meeting, but the module was never taught due to the slow pace of tele-instruction due to their schools being closed. Of course, my last sentence is conjecture as it was never taught. |
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah. I saw the statement on the nudity & language. It’s just so minimal, it seems crazy to me that anyone would pick out those tiny details & feel the need to discard the book. | ||
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