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The cgc to start charging dealers an annual membership fee of $199.16658

If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
I was lazily leafing through a similar thread on the cgc boards and this caught my attention:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transplant
Why do it? 1 answer. It gets a dealer used to paying "something" for the privilege of being a dealer. Next year or the year after, when it's time to renew that dealer fee, who knows what the prices will be. And oh, by the way, read that dealer agreement again.

Anything disparaging CGC is grounds to be terminated as a dealer.


Makes one think. Turn up the heat slowly and the frog doesn't realize it's being boiled.
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COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan
@CFP_Comics
@BigRedOne1944

Parts of what you both say I agree with and parts not so much. But overall both posts seem to lack some perspective or nuance.

CBCS has already had a large increase in submissions. A lot of that starting summer of 2021 after CGC's price increases and their TAT's through the roof.

I'm not on discussion boards to promote my own business of cleaning and pressing comics so I never mention it. But I need to bring it up here. Since June of 2021, I had two of my four dealer accounts (that is store owners I press books for) start using CBCS almost entirely. Leaving CGC. One remains brand loyal to CGC and one is like me - uses whomever seems best for whatever being sent in and the circumstances/needs of the moment.

I'm just one little niche in huge market, but since June of 2021 I sent - in total - nearly as many clients books to CBCS as CGC. A 40/60 split. That is a huge increase for CBCS from years before. Despite my overall number of books pressed and sent to grading companies be much more in 2021 than 2020, I sent fewer books to CGC in 2021 than 2020.

Of course CBCS's TAT have increased to close to what CGC is at - on their LEAST EXPENSIVE tiers. But one of the two dealers that switched to CBCS lives by "time is money" mantra. He doesn't use the least expensive tiers ever. And CBCS absolutely DOMINATES CGC on the faster, more expensive tiers. Right now the only CGC tier that gets someone their books back in a month or less is walkthrough at $150 a book retail. CBCS can do that with multiple different tiers starting at $50 retail for 1975 and later books and $58 for pre 1975 books.

The sky is not falling for CGC - this $199 dealer account annual charge and a second price increase in less than a year will not cause a mass exodus of dealers and submissions leaving CGC. But CGC and those saying this will not change anything are also not fully grounded in reality. A small price increase by CGC and opportunity to get books back quickly from CBCS already drove a bunch of business CBCS's way. This will just add to that trend. It is - as I have said before - not an all or nothing, switch or stay situation. This WILL lead to more people giving CBCS a try and perhaps liking the experience and final product.

And at the risk of harping on a single point, IMHO CGC underestimates the role of dealers as influencers. For 20+ years, CGC seemed to believe their association with dealers was beneficial to CGC. Now CGC appears to believe that it is dealers that mostly benefit from their association with CGC. A lot of people ask me about which grading company. When people walk into the stores of the two dealers that have switched to CBCS and see LOTS of CBCS comics out for sale, that has an influence. That CBCS is just like CGC. Maybe better since the comic shop they use has so many now.

Even small gains in market share have the potential for big changes in how CBCS is viewed. People think of CGC as #1 because on eBay that is what most of the graded books for sale are. But if CBCS becomes more commonly seen, people's views may well change.

I believe this may well be - or turn into - a situation best described by the text on your car's rear view mirrors. "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear"


If we are talking empirical data, I just dropped off about 2,500 books to CGC. In that same time period I mailed out 37 to CBCS. I had one customer previous to that ask me to send his magazines to CBCS instead of CGC. I am not seeing any kind of meaningful shift in where books are submitted despite listing that I submit to both companies on my website. It may happen, but it is not happening ATM.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics


If we are talking empirical data, I just dropped off about 2,500 books to CGC. In that same time period I mailed out 37 to CBCS. I had one customer previous to that ask me to send his magazines to CBCS instead of CGC. I am not seeing any kind of meaningful shift in where books are submitted despite listing that I submit to both companies on my website. It may happen, but it is not happening ATM.


That's eye-opening.
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If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
If we are talking empirical data, I just dropped off about 2,500 books to CGC. In that same time period I mailed out 37 to CBCS. I had one customer previous to that ask me to send his magazines to CBCS instead of CGC. I am not seeing any kind of meaningful shift in where books are submitted despite listing that I submit to both companies on my website. It may happen, but it is not happening ATM.

It stands to reason that you press more books that end up being graded by the cgc versus CBCS. Why wouldn't it? The fact that you hand carry the books to the cgc versus mailing them out to CBCS would also be a contributing factor in those numbers. When CBCS was based in Florida, I would guess that you hand delivered more books to CBCS than you are currently mailing out to Texas.
Post 104 IP   flag post
COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics
If we are talking empirical data, I just dropped off about 2,500 books to CGC. In that same time period I mailed out 37 to CBCS. I had one customer previous to that ask me to send his magazines to CBCS instead of CGC. I am not seeing any kind of meaningful shift in where books are submitted despite listing that I submit to both companies on my website. It may happen, but it is not happening ATM.

It stands to reason that you press more books that end up being graded by the cgc versus CBCS. Why wouldn't it? The fact that you hand carry the books to the cgc versus mailing them out to CBCS would also be a contributing factor in those numbers. When CBCS was based in Florida, I would guess that you hand delivered more books to CBCS than you are currently mailing out to Texas.


Your guess would be correct, but it typically was a 1-10 ratio.
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Former Forum Mascot ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
I just sent 6 books to CGC because apparently I am a numbskull.
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PLOD theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicNinja0215
I just sent 6 books to CGC because apparently I am a numbskull.

LOL, I thought you were making a full transition to CBCS?

Some "forum mascot"... Edit: I see that it indeed says "former" there...

I may actually submit for the first time to CBCS this year, because I have not seen any Justice League #59s on the market. I have a few copies that should all receive 9.8s.
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Former Forum Mascot ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
@theCapraAegagrus yeah I probably should have held myself accountable for that. I sent those to CGC because it seemed like a good idea at the time and they did well with all the books I sent them.
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PLOD theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicNinja0215
@theCapraAegagrus yeah I probably should have held myself accountable for that. I sent those to CGC because it seemed like a good idea at the time and they did well with all the books I sent them.

At least it seems like CGC has cleaned up their package reception. The TATs are f-ing astronomical, though.
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Former Forum Mascot ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
@theCapraAegagrus agreed but at this point ; it is what is . Any hopes of either company getting the times under control went out the window a long time ago.
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Collector sckao private msg quote post Address this user
The ancillary problem is still that eBay and GPA and other venues that are still heavily CGC-centric. Until that changes, Dealers or Sellers who are seeing it from a sales/bottom-line perspective may be unwilling to take the hit currently.

The playing field is not level. Certain companies have a competitive advantage because of first mover advantage or because of size/popularity/reputation of whatever.

Take eBay for instance. I shifted to MyComicShop to sell my slabs, but I realized too late that the FEATURES item in eBay's listings allows you to add the term "Slabbed" as an option. It is not there by default. People who add this will have their items show up when the term SLAB is added to the Search field. (Versus people who have to now add something like "Avengers 154 CGC CBCS PGX etc." It will still take collectors adding the term SLAB to their searches (Avengers 154 slab), but at least that widens your chances of getting your CBCS slab noticed during a casual search.

(I don't think eBay can automatically decide that someone entering "CGC" wants to see every other company's slab. That would be counter-intuitive from a search perspective.)
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If I could, I would. I swear. DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
In all my years, I have never searched any site using the word slabbed in relation to purchasing a comic book. How gauche.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by sckao
(I don't think eBay can automatically decide that someone entering "CGC" wants to see every other company's slab. That would be counter-intuitive from a search perspective.)


They do it all the time. It's just further down the page.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics


If we are talking empirical data, I just dropped off about 2,500 books to CGC. In that same time period I mailed out 37 to CBCS. I had one customer previous to that ask me to send his magazines to CBCS instead of CGC. I am not seeing any kind of meaningful shift in where books are submitted despite listing that I submit to both companies on my website. It may happen, but it is not happening ATM.


That's eye-opening.


At first blush, yes. But when you factor in the geographical bias situation it seems the data from @IronMan would be more relevant. Although both samples are far too small to be anything more than anecdotes.
Post 114 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
I was lazily leafing through a similar thread on the cgc boards and this caught my attention:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transplant
Why do it? 1 answer. It gets a dealer used to paying "something" for the privilege of being a dealer. Next year or the year after, when it's time to renew that dealer fee, who knows what the prices will be. And oh, by the way, read that dealer agreement again.

Anything disparaging CGC is grounds to be terminated as a dealer.


Makes one think. Turn up the heat slowly and the frog doesn't realize it's being boiled.


That was my first thought as well when I heard the $199 price. Make it low enough initially to limit the number of defectors. The frogs that don't jump out of the pot at the beginning probably never will.
Post 115 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
@DrWatson
You beat me to it. I bet if I or Joe lived in Dallas we'd be sending the majority of the books clients wanted graded going to CBCS

@CFP_Comics
I was 1 to 10 ratio CBCS vs CGC for the past several years. UNTIL beginning June 2021. Then CBCS started being close to parity.

There are probably a lot of things that influence this. Demographics of clients, location, things I cannot even think of.

About 1/2 of my clients opt for faster grading services. CGC's price increase in April 2021 was relatively modest - EXCEPT for those that want/use faster services. The price increases for those faster services were not "modest". CBCS clearly offers a lot of value for those that will pay more. There were times this summer where when CGC's fast track modern tier was five months and CBCS's 2 day modern tier was 1-2 weeks. And both virtually the same price (50 cents difference)when sent in under a dealer account. So most of my "speed over money" clients started using CBCS. I also have a lot of relatively new to pressing/slabbing thing clients. They did not have years of experience using CGC so little to no brand loyalty. Less expensive and a little faster sounds good. Same price and much faster sounds even better. A little more money and WAY faster very appealing.

I'm also meeting with people one day a week at a LCS that want to discuss getting books pressed, graded. That store being one that switched to CBCS and that only uses faster tiers. So he has lots CBCS slabs up for sale. They walk in the door and what do they see? That influencer thing I discuss...
Post 116 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWatson
I was lazily leafing through a similar thread on the cgc boards and this caught my attention:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transplant
Why do it? 1 answer. It gets a dealer used to paying "something" for the privilege of being a dealer. Next year or the year after, when it's time to renew that dealer fee, who knows what the prices will be. And oh, by the way, read that dealer agreement again.

Anything disparaging CGC is grounds to be terminated as a dealer.


Makes one think. Turn up the heat slowly and the frog doesn't realize it's being boiled.


Yeah, have seen this posted multiple times. I guess it will come down to what the definition of "disparaging" means to them.

Whatever. If I got banned it would mean they don't want any criticism at all. CGC has competition and the competition excels in some areas. Price especially, given aggressive price increases by CGC.
Post 117 IP   flag post
Collector Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexView
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxbladder
CGC remaining the top of the heap is one of many that just stifles the hobby.
How is CGC stifling the hobby?


With most grading heading to CGC that means they set the pricing knowing that it really doesn't matter what they do. That money is locked up in CGC and not getting distributed around and also drowns out any serious competition.

To be clear this ISN'T CGC's doing it is one of many corrosive behaviours practiced by the community. We do all sorts of things because everyone else does because we ultimately don't like change. So we keep sending to CGC, pay graded premium, slag the big two but still give the big two the bulk of business, blame the big two for all the problems, etc. All these practices keep all these practices that just maintain the status quo and prevents the hobby from growing/expanding.

(Third party graders have practices that also hurt the hobby but I won't get into that here. )
Post 118 IP   flag post
Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicNinja0215
I just sent 6 books to CGC because apparently I am a numbskull.


LOL.... the vast majority of books I send in are for clients. Books go where the owners want. But I do send in books for grading for myself and I use both companies. Just bends more to CBCS now. So either we are both numbskulls or neither of us are
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Former Forum Mascot ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
@IronMan wel said lol . The price increase there brought me back here. I could sent 4 books to Dallas at the same price of sending 2 to Sarasota. I went with my gut and thought theese books would be better off in a cbcs holder.
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towmater
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFP_Comics


If we are talking empirical data, I just dropped off about 2,500 books to CGC. In that same time period I mailed out 37 to CBCS. I had one customer previous to that ask me to send his magazines to CBCS instead of CGC. I am not seeing any kind of meaningful shift in where books are submitted despite listing that I submit to both companies on my website. It may happen, but it is not happening ATM.


That's eye-opening.


At first blush, yes. But when you factor in the geographical bias situation it seems the data from @IronMan would be more relevant. Although both samples are far too small to be anything more than anecdotes.


Anecdotal?

Breakdown 2500 comics into the possible time it takes to grade a book. Let's say, it takes 3 minutes per book...

2500 x 3 = 7500 minutes
7500/60 = 125 hours
125/40 hour work week = 3.12 weeks for 1 grader

Add in the time it takes to unbox them, check them in, create the labels for each on to be slabbed with, slab them, and do a quality control check on and you have a lot of hours in 2500 books for the grading companies.

BTW, 2500 comics at CBCS modern tier pricing is $45000.00 of revenue.

2500 x 18 = 45,000

How many graders does CBCS have on staff? How many does CGC have on staff? If we knew that you can start taking SWAGs at the revenue of the companies annually.
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Collector Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrdibyrd
I have another reason to send them less. They can't tell Batman and Superman apart. I am having trouble fathoming how even a 6-year-old in this country would be unable to tell Batman from Superman, but apparently the folks at CGC are experiencing difficulties in that area. Check out the books I just got back from the Jim Lee signing today:


Not a single one is correct, and I am also having issues with a couple of the grades, too, but with all my complaints of CGC handing out too many 9.8's I guess this had to happen at some point.

Thanks, CGC. This is what we all pony up the big(ger) bucks for.


It's not that their trainees can't tell Batman and Superman apart... it's just that CGC simply doesn't care. You already paid.

I didn't leave CGC because of the removal of discounts and spring price hike, or the winter price hike, or the upcoming Summer/Fall price hike. I left because I was paying attention to unboxings on YT and IG and quickly realized they just don't care what they send out. So you send it back and it sits there another half year waiting to be fixed. Means nothing to them.
Post 122 IP   flag post
Former Forum Mascot ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm going to have to make a decision on which company gets my business after this year. I know enough about the game now to see pros and cons for both companies and it would better to just ship books to one location not to mention easier to keep track of.
Post 123 IP   flag post
Collector Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros
It's not that their trainees can't tell Batman and Superman apart... it's just that CGC simply doesn't care. You already paid.

I cannot argue with you. I've already sent email(s) to customer service regarding this matter and I've heard nothing from them At All. That's not the only problem either. I have another book with a label error, and a record (for me) 10 slabs with cracks in them. I have sent multiple messages and not a peep from CGC in return. It makes for a total of 18 books I need to send back to CGC so far this year, and we're barely halfway through January. I believe this is 3 times the total number of returns I've sent back from all previous years.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
@Byrdibyrd Sometimes at year end there can be a massive push to get product out so revenue can be booked for that calendar year. A lot of companies see quality control disappear as they near the end of a reporting period. I don't know if yours was a year-end thing, but it's common, particularly where investors are involved.
Post 125 IP   flag post
Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC? Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
After switching over to CBCS years ago it doesn't look like CGC is trying very hard to get me back.

Exactly how I feel.
Post 126 IP   flag post
Collector Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
@Byrdibyrd Sometimes at year end there can be a massive push to get product out so revenue can be booked for that calendar year. A lot of companies see quality control disappear as they near the end of a reporting period. I don't know if yours was a year-end thing, but it's common, particularly where investors are involved.

That's true, and it makes some sick sense. I've never had this many rejects before. It's insane.
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Collector Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scifinator
Quote:
Originally Posted by drchaos
After switching over to CBCS years ago it doesn't look like CGC is trying very hard to get me back.

Exactly how I feel.

Yup. From now on, CGC is for signings that I just can't pass up, usually with aging creators whose work I respect. Aside from that, it's CBCS all the way.
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Former Forum Mascot ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
@Byrdibyrd I've been saying that for the longest time and in the same breath I say "nah, just give them another chance ".isn't it easier to shop at one grocery store??
Post 129 IP   flag post
Collector Byrdibyrd private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicNinja0215
@Byrdibyrd I've been saying that for the longest time and in the same breath I say "nah, just give them another chance ".isn't it easier to shop at one grocery store??

It's easier to have one-stop shopping, that's for sure. The last time I sent anything that wasn't for a signing to The Other Guy was early last year, right before they jacked their prices the first time (I wanted to sneak a few non-pricey G.A. books in before they axed their "value" tier). I haven't regretted the decision to ignore them for my general grading needs at all.
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