Preventing Slab Fraud16614
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 Collector
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IThinkILikeComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hello. I'm not sure if this is even the right place for this, but I was thinking about how rampant slab fraud is out there on eBay and the like, and thought there must be a better way to ensure this can't happen nearly as frequently as it does. Though, it seems it happens far more with CGC than it does with CBCS. So I came up with an idea... I'm not sure if it's been brought up before, or if it's even being implemented now, but what about etching in the CBCS certification number onto the inner well in such a manner that it IS visible if you look for it (maybe the very bottom, or top), but so that it isn't obtrusive and glaring, such as HUGE and in the middle of the comic? Because it's unique to the graded book, people should be able to easily duplicate this and just switch out the label on the top, because it would no longer match what's etched into the inner well. Also, if you etch in the same area the grade of the book and the title, vol. and issue number, there really can't be any denying that the graded book is the book in question. And voila, fraud is gone. Just food for thought... |
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 I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Most slabs crack if messed with. I didn't know that it was a rampant issue.... | ||
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Collector
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IThinkILikeComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| People replace at least the label all the time. | ||
| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| And voila, fraud is gone. That would be a neat magic trick. However, like @Bronte, I didn't know that it was a rampant issue either. | ||
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I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Well with CBCS sonically sealed slabs, I don't see this being an issue. Maybe CGC has their own issues? | ||
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 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| . | ||
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Collector
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Supermole private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That might happen on the old slabs, but the new slabs are pretty hard to break apart easily. Where is your evidence there is "rsmpant slab fraud"? Rampant insinuates you have tons of evidence. | ||
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IThinkILikeComics  |
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| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've seen a few youtube videos, mostly falsely accusing someone of tampering with a slab worth less than $50. I'm also not aware of rampant slab fraud. Are there any links you can share about this issue? Hopefully not of the guy whining about a gargoyles slab he was unhappy with. | ||
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Collector
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IThinkILikeComics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Gees. All I did was suggest something that could HELP collectors and you guys are shitting on me. * - Edited by moderation for contentious political subject. Message being sent to op. |
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| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @IThinkILikeComics That is hardly “shitting” on you. Slab fraud is not an issue thought of as “rampant” and people are asking for information showing it is widespread to determine if it is something that should be concerning or if it is, as is currently thought, something that does happen and we should be wary of but not widespread to the point where we need to fear for every slab we buy. | ||
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I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Nobody treated you with disrespect. Personally I would like to see what you were talking about and would love to see examples until you brought politics into it. What a way to shit on your own thread.... | ||
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Collector
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Supermole private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't think anyone "shit" on you or asked you to reveal your political position either. RAMPANT is a strong term and i hardly think that is occurring with the new cases. Strong words required strong evidence. Where? Also, doing this on every book would make the 6 mnoth turn around a 2 year turn around if they have to laser etch every slab with unique ID's. What would stop someone from then making fake labels to match the etch? | ||
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah....never knew this was an issue... I'm new to collecting though with barely over 9000 comics over 40+ yrs since I was a kid. What would the fraud be by the way? I buy the books not the grades. There are plenty of 8 and 8.5s I pass on because I know eventually a better looking one in the same grade will come along. If you are referring to 9.8s that are in no way a 9.8...well...thats just how CGC grades...hell they even grade air!! |
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| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Fake issue. Fake. | ||
| Post 15 • IP flag post | ||
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IThinkILikeComics News to me. And apparently to most here. All the time...?!? |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
 "Forum Overlord" bah ha ha ha...
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JustThatGuy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Of course there is slab fraud, haven’t you guys seen the invisible comic that was slabbed recently? | ||
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| . | ||
| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
 We should have the forum rate our packages.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Scrubba dub dub.... | ||
| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IThinkILikeComics I will give your idea fair consideration without considering the validity of the premise of rampant slab fraud. Everything has a cost. If this option were available to you as the submitting customer...how much extra would you be willing to pay for it? |
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia also..how much additional time would you be willing to incur due to this process |
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| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I guess it's really all about risk assessment - hackles may have been raise when the term 'rampant' was used - if something nefarious is happening out there what is the real risk - is it 2% or 20% of the market? I always fall back on - but the book not the grade - books are both under and over graded by both companies and cracking any book out for a re-grade does not guarantee it will come back in the same grade it was sent in |
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COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KatKomics @EbayMafia I also don’t know how much more security it really adds. Yes it may deter simple label swapping but if you can access the label then you can probably access the inner well just as easily and swap the book in the inner label itself. You don’t even need two slabs in that situation | ||
| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IThinkILikeComics What you did is make an unsupported statement that there is rampant slab fraud. Which there is not. Having created a non-existent problem, you then proposed a solution. Everyone here has been remarkably nice in their comments. You should try this post over at CGC forums to find out what it's like to get shat upon properly  CGC's Generation 1 slab - the original- can sometimes be opened with little or no damage and sometimes the label can then be removed and swapped with little or no damage. It is the old label generation 1 slabs that are the easiest to do. I know this not because I'm counterfeiting slabs, but because I crack open a lot of slabs and I have purchased - once - a book that had the label replaced. I've actually sold hundreds of empty, undamaged generation 1 slabs. Collectors like them for display purposes. Moving forward a few years CGC began gluing/sealing the outer edge of the label, making it difficult to remove a label without tearing the paper. CBCS's generation 1 slab was inherently more difficult to remove the label as the label was sealed up inside the inner holder, as opposed to sitting loose in the outer holder like CGC Gen 1. But some arse did post up a video on how to do so. You could still see the cut open inner well if you looked closely. CBCS then started gluing/sealing the label along the edges so that again - like CGC - the label was damaged by being removed. All of this is about Generation 1 holders. The new Generation 2 holders of both companies are thicker, sealed on all the edges and basically impossible to open up - even just the top edge - without lots of obvious cracks in the plastic. So the simple solution is "don't buy slabs with cracks in the outer holder". |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite It seems to me like buying a lock for a lock. Getting a book slabbed provides assurances to the secondary market. Yes, this would add a second layer of assurance but it would require the slabbing companies to acknowledge that the current layer is not good enough. It would also require enough demand in the secondary market that the primary market submitter would be willing to pay for it. Right now I don't see where, given the choice, the primary submitter would be willing to pay a premium to have this additional level of security added to their slab. Now it could be a demand that doesn't come about until the product exists. For example, if CGC were to start doing this as a "standard of security", CBCS may be forced to follow suit. However, I doubt that the smaller company CBCS could get much mileage or make many inroads from offering this added level of security. |
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| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm a little late to the party, but I agree with the general idea that it's a solid idea without a lot of need behind it. If CBCS were to start etching on the slabs though, it opens up other avenues. Like they could just etch the certification on the back of the slab where it doesn't block anything on the label, or they could etch the CBCS logo on the slab with the # below it. They could etch custom logos instead of printing them on the label. There are some potentially intriguing ideas, probably none of them worth the cost. To the topic of slab fraud, however rare it might be, at the end of the day I think the issue is that you'd want to tie the book itself to the certification number. That's tough to do without modifying the book, even in some ridiculously tiny way (adding a microdot or something), and a good number of collectors don't want their books modified at all. I think that's the hard problem. |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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cesidio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| RFID. Not that expensive in today's day and age. Fraud is always rampant. Some people rob banks while others prey on those who trust to easily. Not hard put a chip in the case and issue a fob. In bulk should cost no more than 20 bucks. Not that the dollar means anything today. | ||
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