Is there a preferred or superior comic holder in terms of warping?16415
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 Collector
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MRmintastic private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I’m new to these forums but have enjoyed the conversation and useful info provided, and look forward to receiving my first submission from CBCS sent a couple months ago. After a break from comic collecting with a focus on sports cards during the last couple years, I have a question that’s been on my mind, and after a brief search, I didn’t find anything that is both up to date and comprehensive. Even if there are other threads, returning to a subject can often yield more useful intel. What is the probability of warping of the holder or the well / book within the holder – for CGC and CBCS, or any other reputable company? How has the holder been improved over the years to reduce warping and where are we now? When I took a hiatus from the hobby, a lot of newton rings and especially warping of my bronze age Marvels (mostly 9.6s and 9.8s) caused me to sell many of my slabs. Now that I’m back and looking to purchase some books, I’d like to know what other collectors have noticed over the long term, and if there are any practices or causation that may increase the likelihood of warping or deformation within the well. There is an old thread way back on slabs warping from CGC, where collectors suggest that vertical storage may be a factor, and that laying books flat may prevent it from happening. https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/19438-warped-slab/page/2/#comments To be clear, I don’t care if a mint book is in a CGC or CBCS holder – it’s the comic I’m after, same as the PSA vs BGS debate – I just want mint factory cut cards (and enjoy finding them at a good price). The grading company is secondary to the collectable IMO. I submitted to CBCS because I noticed the holders are pretty sturdy, and the well looked a bit thicker the one time when I cracked a book out, and not having to purchase a membership. I also submitted sports cards to Beckett and PSA recently, and am baffled at how some die hard loyalists will blindly adhere to their own dogma rather than an accurate analysis of a TPG’s strengths and weaknesses (financial self-interest I guess). I bring up the card grading companies because I see a lot of parallels in terms of how the companies evolution and history determines current prices, and the connection this has to warping for comics. Was there a period when comics were more likely to warp in their holders, and do knowledgeable collectors avoid books from that era? For PSA, there is a general perception that they are more strict lately, so older cards without the hologram generally sell for less than the newer ones that have it. It seems that with comics, the newer holders are the most desirable, and I wonder if warping and ongoing improvements to the holder play a factor in this. Would appreciate any commentary, experience, observations etc., and if anyone can confirm or shed light on this subject. I realize I am a collector at heart (a darn picky one), and want to make sure that I am well informed before I buy any high end or vintage books again. Thanks in advance. |
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 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
First welcome to the boards.... As for the question in your topic line? Your mileage may differ on this board (being a CBCS Forum) but the short answer with me is .... NO PS: I personally like the New CBCS cases for no other reason than the clarity and label and the way the slab presents overall |
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Collector
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MRmintastic private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I watched a review comparing the CBCS and CGC slabs that seemed impartial, and it mentioned the clarity of the holder as well. It doesn't hurt that CBCS has a reputation for impartial and consistent grading. That integrity is the ultimate currency in this business. |
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 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The new CBCS slabs are real nice, but not without minor scuffing issues that CBCS is supposedly working on with their supplier. From what I’ve seen floating around the web for CGC slabs is many issues have been addressed while Newton rings are still an issue and there are plenty of slabs with “puddling”. I don’t know if puddling is a current issue or just remnants unaddressed by their owners. Personally I prefer CBCS and feel the end result best suits my needs/preferences and graders notes are free. With that said; CBCS is having major customer service issues and is toiling through a tremendous backlog. For buying foremost is the book, then the grade. I do tend to lean toward CBCS slabs; I simply don’t like the CGC slabs and I (irrationally) am not paying for graders notes that are often useless or non existent. |
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 PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 The CGC Creep Engine slab is the only concern that comes to mind when buying an older product. |
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MRmintastic Both companies have this. |
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @theCapraAegagrus - While both companies usually do a fine job with consistent grading, and both have had made some errors that usually get pointed out on the forums, I seem to be seeing more and more books in CGC slabs that appear to be over-graded. I can be pretty picky when buying a slab and really study scans on eBay and online sites. In my opinion, many more of the newer CGC slabs seem to be “off” than CBCS slabs. And if I don’t like what I see, I won’t buy it regardless of whose name is on the label. | ||
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by esaravo Those are vague statements, so all I can say is 'okay'. That's how I suggest everyone operates; Buy the book and not the label. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My experience is CGC and CBCS grade equivalently. I have seen under-graded and over on both. I have some CGC books that are easily on any given day a likely higher grade at CBCS - and at the same time a likely higher grade at CGC. Just depends on the grader. That said, I have seen more egregious -examples- of overgrading from CGC. The problem is that it doesn’t mean much when I flip through 100 examples of CGC for every CBCS… so of course the rare outliers will show up more frequently for CGC books. In my modest collection my equivalent books by CBCS and CGC look equivalent. My examples of the most undergraded books are actually CGC - but that is also expected as I have more CGC books. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| More on-topic. For those of us who stack graded books flat, how many are you comfortable stacking? My approach is counter-intuitive as I put my most valuable books on the top to ensure no significant weight. I would like to hear how others stack flat and how high… |
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 Collector
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etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus I'm trying to remember the timeframe for the upgrade at CGC that was a big issue with the wells and damaging books (I think that's what the poster is calling "creep engine". 2016 through 2018 slabbed books? When this addressed this issue is when Newton's rings started showing up. I haven't seen any issues of warping from either company, though for something like that I feel both companies are fairly "young". CGC started in 2000, CBCS started in 2014. Not sure I'd expect severe warping on 21 year old slabs unless they're exposed to extreme heat and long-term direct sunlight. Neither of which would be common conditions in which to store a comic; graded or otherwise. |
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 Collector
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cesidio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Rember when you are paying for a grade you are paying for an opinion. Grading is subjective. It's all about who you trust more value ect. I have never in my almost 55 years told someone how to spend money. I do what I feel is right for me. | ||
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 Captain Accident
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the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have 2 CBCS graded books from 2 separate recent submissions that came back with warped inner wells. I haven't returned them yet to have them fixed but it's kind of annoying. I have not had this issue on the other side of the street. | ||
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave 10. |
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by etapi65 Creep Engine was 2015-2017, IIRC. Fixed in late-2017 new slab design. |
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Collector
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MRmintastic private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks for the replies to everyone. I never heard of Creep Engine until now, but saw the pics and threads on this subject. The wavy pattern is similar but different to what I experienced. I remember a CGC 9.6 Conan 58 that I was going to put aside and keep for my PC (since it was the first appearance of Belit), but upon a closer look the entire book was warped, rather than a wavy pattern. Same with a Captain America 215 CGC 9.8 I wanted to keep - the warping was excessive and the entire bottom half of the books were warped within the holders. I kept my slabs spine down inside a magazine box, but I don't think that mattered. I sold them both. Agree with Davethebrave as it all depends on the grader and cesidio that it's a subjective opinion. I think the point of paying for the service is an expectation of quality control and that training and professional knowledge transmitted to newer staff will translate into consistent grading. If there is a lot of turnover or burnout, then grading standards will decline. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @esaravo I did see a recent Promise Collection mega key (Whiz 1/2) had a grading error that is way bigger than mere over/under grading… the book had the wrong back cover! On the plus side it was graded at a 1.0 and so they weren’t off too much ;-) But wow. That seems like missing the basics. I get it for a smaller, less valuable book (simply because the likelihood of intentional page or cover swaps are far lower)… |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My guess is quality control is suffering. That said, I think that is happening in many areas. Not an excuse but reality. We all have to use our eyes too. |
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 Collector
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teacha777 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| With cgc it’s inconsistent grading in general, but for the few examples I swapped cgc for Cbcs and vice versa grades have been virtually identical. I should try sending in a cgc that I think is under graded and see what happens. Next promo if they ever happen again I guess |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus Thanks. Just checked and mine are really shallow (8 was max) with higher priced books higher. I suspect they can take much more without issue except the risk is if they slip… if not all edge-on-edge. |
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