I think this sums it up...16212
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town And yet Disney bows to China and removes all the "wokeness" from their movies so they can be shown there. It is never a flashpoint for the "woke clan" to have it removed as long as the cash flow from that market stays positive. That should tell everyone what there is to know about the issue. |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Studley_Dudley Then Above Average Joe should be called Beef Stew.  That's about the dimensions of a #10 can ( 6 3/16" x 7" ) that one finds beef stew in at the grocery. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, the cited article was definitely not balanced. | ||
| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
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dfoster43 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by OGJackster My family and I watched this literally EVERY Sunday night from 1965 to 1984. The only reason for stopping was my father died and I never had a family Sunday again. It came on right before Walt Disney. Now those are some good memories. Marlin would stay in the helicopter while Jim wrestled with the wild dogs/pigs/'gators/mandrill/etc. on the ground ... loved it. |
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just a couple of factoids. I watched Mutual of Omaha and Marlin all the time. The show was mostly faked it turns out, they would throw a baby moose into a mud pit for instance then rescue it, and lots of similar, quite cruel things. Marlin (when in his 80’s) famously punched a guy in the nose when asked about it. It is always troubling to look too close. Back in the 1940’s there were more movie theaters than banks in America. Movie making was controlled by 5 big studios. They peaked at about 400 feature films a year. You add the British industry, the number of feature movies then is close to now, which peaked at about 800 feature films in 2018. Of course there was no TV back then. Still have not seen Eternals, but have the run and read it. Brilliant by Kirby, Hopefully they pulled off at least a hint of the complicated stew Kirby put together. I don’t bat an eye at any what is called wokeness, but I sure like my girls colored blue, or green, or red. Probably not in that movie though, and definitely not wokeness. |
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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Quote:Originally Posted by dfoster43 Yeah, I always wanted to hear Perkins say,"Boy, Jim sure did get his ass kicked on that one." |
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For the record, Shang-Chi and Eternals have not been released in China and most likely won't be. | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by lawguy1977 According to the rumors, the issue with the Eternals being shown is the director and an interview that was given. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson I always liked his quick pivot to shilling for the sponsor. "My, that encounter with the angry rhino certainly was exciting. And when your life gets exciting, it's nice to have the good people at Mutual of Omaha to turn to." |
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 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jabberwookie Or text on a forum.... |
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| Post 85 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by OGJackster Some people choose to skip over the content and rather find something to be offended by. |
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| Post 86 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by lawguy1977 Marvelphobes |
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
| 'Woke'content or not the movies are never the same as the comic. The closest that I saw was the Christopher Reeves Superman, but that didn't draw from Superman the way he was in the 70's. It was more 60's and before. I just hope they get the essence of the origin material. Sometimes they do sometimes they don't. One of my favourite characters is X-23 and they changed her origin quite a bit but the decent hints of it and her savage nature and the actress they cast ... worked. WW was awesome though not like comics. WW84 not as much but it was an entirely different time period telling a different part of her origin it worked for some, most it didn't. I haven't seen the Eternals and I haven't read much if any Eternals books so my expectations would be nil but who knows that might get me interested. The thing that most people don't understand that they want to draw more than comic fans because they aren't the ones that are making up the vast majority of the profit of their movies. I understand that so the changes don't always bother me. Superman v. Batman sucked because it made no sense at all. Ultimately Eternals is crashing not necessarily because of the woke content alone but because it's just a crappy movie. Frankly I could care less about woke content or not, if I feel the story still works cool then if not I just read something else. The thing is I know why they are doing it and if it does bring more readers that benefits all of us. They don't really care what we think because ultimately they know that most people aren't just going to drop a book because of one little blip. People have been whining and moaning about Marvel and, to a much smaller extent, DC since I have been collecting (I started in 1979)and yet who remains at the top two? Even when you tell them about all the fantastic options are out there they rarely will order or buy anything but Marvel and DC UNLESS there's value behind it or it's a part of a licensed property they like. Even funnier all those woke books make Key Collector and the acolytes buy the books and the value goes up. It's hilarious. | ||
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 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Oxbladder - good post. Reading through the comments, it looks like a couple of posters took shots at my comments. Perhaps they were looking for something to be triggered for or perhaps i failed in properly conveying my sentiment. While I like movie content that holds true to novels and comics, i am not opposed to canon departure or artistic liberty if done well and the storyline makes sense. Take for instance my first paragraph of my original comment - “ I get the concept that Feige was reportedly looking for, that the eternals were created to watch/guide their respective planets and thus the individual eternals should be representative of the planet. And thus, by extension, each race if you will. That in and of itself, to me, is a plausible departure from the original canon.” My second paragraph went into some example of where i thought there were flaws in scenes and content that that did not seem to be needed or just departed from storyline. To me, Children of a Lesser God, Crying Game, and Fifty Shades of Grey were well done movie. I am not triggered nor offended by characters with disabilities, sex scenes, or LGB+. My issues are that the movie had content that was disjointed and did not effectively add to the movie. So again while I may have nostalgic leanings to canon, I am not married to it and felt the character change premise made great sense and was very interested in seeing this movie and hopeful. But, the movie needed some more focused writing and an editing out of superfluous content. |
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| @Scifinator thanks. I'm like you if the movie flows and entertains that's what is going to put butts in seats. I also can feel for those folks who can't get over the changes because it can be a deal breaker. The changes made in 2010 from the book were too much for me to get over as it wiped out fundamental plots that were in the book. Too some diehard fans character changes can amount to the same thing. | ||
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Keep pondering the Frank Miller series, Dark Knight Returns, where he changed Robin to a woman, Carrie Kelley. Noone said a word and the story went on to become recognized pretty much by most as one of the better Batman stores ever written.......where was the rending of clothes and tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth then? |
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| Post 91 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Other than the internet not existing in 1986, what do you feel explains the difference? Personally I think people saw the Dark Knight's Robin as original, organic and an interesting enhancement to the overall story. A desperate Batman in a bleak future reluctantly comes to accept a young street tough female volunteer as his sidekick, because she shared his ideals and passion. It was an important element in a great original story. Edit: We might also point out that as far as we know people didn't complain about future Batman being retired and out of shape. |
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| Post 92 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town The evolution of the Robin Character has seen multiple changes through out Batman's history. First was Dick Grayson, then Jason Todd, Then Tim Drake. All had either moved on in their careers, retired or were deceased. Miller Created a completely different and new character in Carrie Kelley as the person who in Batman's future came to fill the Robin Side kick role and it just so happened to be a girl. Miller didn't change Robin's past or current history Miller's changes were not done to cater to political wokeness, they were done because Miller's story line dictated Batman's future saw a Girl named Carrie Kelly step into the Robin role, which has been filled by multiple people over Batman's career. It was a natural and believable progression given the past history of the multiple people who have filled the Robin role. There's a BIG difference between THAT and the false narrative your trying to push. That's why the series was so successful, and that's why there was no "rending of clothes and tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth" |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944Okay but yeah seriously just no. First and foremost, I am not "pushing a narrative" so you can knock off the accusations . Indeed the character Robin has seen multiple changes throughout IT'S history...and sorry but no, Miller did not "create" a whole new character in any way shape or form. Miller altered Robin, an already existing character with a backstory, that was NOT female. And yes it just so happened to be a girl...sort of like the characters in the Eternals, who just so happened to be a girl. Talk about someone pushing a narrative, wow. Of course Miller changed both Robins past and history, because the NEW Robin did not have the same past nor history as the previous versions...he entirely altered the character. How do you know why Miller made his changes? Did you ask him those questions or are you again assigning your own narrative? There is precisely zero difference between Marvel taking there characters and altering them from a comic book universe to a cinematic one and making them different...beyond that you have somehow determined those characters are sacrosanct and if altered it must be someones narrative. The series was successful because the storyline altered a more drastic, more likely and more realistic albeit grim view of a hero that had always been portrayed much differently. @ebaymafia, I do think that the storyline was made quite organic in the method used to replace Robin. It was very well written....but if it were done today, these same people that are screaming about fifty year old characters being altered for a cinematic universe would be screaming much like they are now. By example consider the series "The Watchmen" with its graphic realistic take on heroes and their fallibilities. It created some backlash, but it also created many new fans and people today consider the storyline a work of pure inspiration. Sometimes it takes breaking the mold and retelling the story to make it more meaningful. And before anyone screams oh those were all original characters blah blah please remember that they are ALL based on characters already existing at the time that DC was entirely too scared to expose to that kind of storyline. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| and just to clarify, Miller was not the one who decided to make Robin female even.....it was John Byrne....so maybe before we try assigning why people do things we might get some of the facts. According to Frank Miller, the idea to create Carrie Kelley was sparked by a conversation of him with superhero comics veteran John Byrne while they were flying to an Ohio comic convention. When Miller told Byrne he was writing a Batman story featuring an old and crankier Batman, Byrne recommended him to make Robin a girl and drew him a sketch. Miller liked the concept so much that he ultimately included it in The Dark Knight Returns |
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| Post 95 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town When you're done lecturing, you should go tell this guy... Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Lol |
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| Post 96 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Uh.. I was there. It was 1986. People certainly did say stuff but there was no internet. You only heard it if you were physically around those people. And they got over it because it was backed up by a good story. That's the difference between DKR and the crap this thread is about. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| uhh I was there too, in fact I worked for a comic shop and heard what people said. I WAS physically around those people...and yes they got over it, because it was a different time and place where people were not so close minded and so set on their own narratives. It was backed up with a good story , I agree. But that does not make the things altered any less or different than the MOVIE we are discussing here. (The name calling and rude terms dont get you any mileage here sorry) | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Check the definition of “decide” … based on your own excerpt, the decision was made by Miller. Inspired, sparked, catalyst, concept, etc can come from an infinite list of sources. The decision is Miller’s based on your summary. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| and? the idea was Byrne's, not something Miller chose for a reason Milller had...get it? | ||
| Post 100 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town So... Miller decided? |
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| Post 101 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Miller decided to accept Byrne's suggestion that Robin should be female...meaning, since you seem to not be getting it...that BYRNE was the one who came up with the idea for a female robin and suggested it...not Miller and certainly not for any idea that Miller had about the character.... | ||
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 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| More to the point than arguing over who created a particular character is the simple recognition that when comics introduce a new white guy, no one really bats an eye. If the fifth Captain America or the 18th Green Lantern is some dude, people might say "I hope they get back to Hal/Steve soon" but there isn't really a fuss. When you introduce a woman or minority character, whether they're new or filling in, some people have to find the highest mountain they can climb on to complain about it. Falcon isn't the real Cap, X-23 is a knock-off, Miracle Molly looks weird and must be a lesbian, that new character on Sesame Street is ruining children's lives, etc. Whether a character is brand-new or not is a minor part of the issue. | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There were likely many ideas, internal to Frank’s own mind and external. He decided on that one. So he decided. In fact, depending on your philosophical view of empiricism vs rationalism, you could argue there are no purely internally derived thoughts. So that would mean that there was no decision. Maybe - just maybe - Robin doesn’t even exist. Or was not female after all and all of this is in your head. Woah. |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk They are puppets. Nothing more and nothing less. Sesame Street confirmed that in 2018. |
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