The looong term future of comic values. What's your guess?16162
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Sunvox private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So, I'm an oldie that has turned into a newbie. I collected comics when I was 10,11,12 and now at 55 I pulled out my old box of books and found I rekindled my interest. Now about 1 month into my new interest I've changed my mind numerous times. The biggest change that brings up this question is regarding comics as an investment. At first I looked at the value of 9.8 Keys sky rocketing and thought "boy I need to buy me some of those 'cuz they are good investments", but now I'm thinking comics may not be good investments so I need to stick to collecting as a hobby that's fun, not profitable . . . fun. Before anyone gets their panties in a wad let me explain in more detail what I'm thinking. I'm talking about a fine art painting that one hands down generation after generation and that keeps appreciating as opposed to buying Hulk 181 last year and flipping this year for a double. At first I thought comics were like fine art and guaranteed to increase in value over time, but now I've read some material on "collectables" and wonder if comics will be of any value in 50 years. I ask here because I am certain that people on this forum have far more experience than I do, and therefore, I am eager to hear their opinion on the topic. So in a nutshell: Do you think comics will still have value in 50 years? And if yes, all or just a subset? Anyways, big topic and many folks may not be interested or may think it's stupid one since I will be dead when we know the answer, but I hope those that are interested will take the time to join in the discussion. If you think it's stupid than really you don't need to respond; you can just as easily ignore the thread. Thanks!  |
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Supermole private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Now I don't know about these new books and all the variant crap people keep the grading companies slammed with, but the older books that always held value will always have value. Why wouldn't they? They have gained and gained over the last 60+ years. | ||
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QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Keys (and some important but not quite keys) from Golden Age will age well. Most Silver Keys will as well (the Movies guarantee that). Bronze will have value but I don't see it being the same - these books are not rare (there are all told almost 15 THOUSAND graded Hulk 181s!!!!! Almost 11 THOUSAND GS Xmen 1) Collect what you like, enjoy it, and if you make money or have something valuable to pass on, thats a bonus. |
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Sunvox private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Supermole From what I've read the argument goes like this: Comics are culturally relevant to people who either saw a movie or read the book but in 50 years no one will have done either (or at least very few) so comics are not a lasting investment category. They are good in our lifetime, but not for future generations. That is NOT my argument. I'm just trying to paraphrase what I have read. This is relevant to me in a significant way. Hence my desire to hear other opinions. Let me explain. I am fortunate to have reasonably large financial resources at my disposal, and I was considering buying $100k of comics to hang on my wall and leave for my grandchildren (if or when I ever have such), but now I'm thinking that is a very bad idea, and I should just buy a few key books that I would like to read and have right now. My point in starting the thread is to get input from folks on both sides of the issue. Do comics make good long term investments like say a Van Gogh or are they like the collectable items from a series known as "Penny Dreadful" which once sold for enormous prices in England, but today are all but worthless. At the moment I am leaning towards an idea that perhaps there is a sub-set of comics that may in fact hold value, such as pre-1975 Jack Kirby stuff. |
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 I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think there will always be a market for collectibles. Whether it's a huge market will remain to be seen, but some characters will be forever in the minds of folks and will always be known in popular culture. (I'm thinking batman, Spider-man and such) If you are just looking at reading them, I would just buy a digital copy. Why damage a potential investment if you don't have to? As for investing in future, I think there is a reason why keys have are called keys. They are forever etched as being more valuable than their similar counterparts of that Era. I think if you have the funds stick with known keys and you'll be safe. |
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QuaBrot private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Forget about who's reading them or seeing the movies. Who doesn't know who Superman, Batman and Spiderman are? Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck? In any part of the world? That is how you know they'll have value for a long time. Secondary are artists/art work. Then you have what I'll call internally important books - books that have historical or other importance to people who like comic books. I'd put more money on big Superman or Batman books than a Banksy for future value. |
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 Maybe they just like me better. Nah, that's not it.
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BPaxson002 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Sunvox At our age (I'm 56) buying most books for investment is a major waste of time. If you are looking for retirement funds, I would put the money in gold. The rate of return on comics is amazingly low over time. Golden age books, Silver Age Books, a good deal of Bronze age books are going to retain their value, and yes, go up a bit. Maybe 20% by the time we retire. Now I would not but a super key like Hulk 181, FF 48, X-men 1 and the like. That is too much cash invested in a single book. As far as 9.8 modern book, I am never going to have one. Those books are way too volatile. |
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 Whenever you have a monkey riding a horse, I'm in.
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Tom74152 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Interesting question. If we knew where the market would be in 50 years we’d all get rich. When I see some of the craziness going on I think about the Dutch tulip mania of the 17th century. I do believe there is a place for comics in a well rounded portfolio. I collect some comics for fun but also have others put away. I also have some stocks, gold and silver coins & bullion, and even a little cryptocurrency. It’s hard to say which “investment” will be the best in 50 years. |
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 You do know that the new guy brings the donuts, right?
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DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I feel like high-grade Golden Age or Silver Age keys of well- known characters should keep most of their value or even appreciate in value. I'm not nearly as confident about Bronze Age and later comics with a few exceptions. Personally, right now, I'd put investment dollars elsewhere but that's just me. |
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Hexigore private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Sunvox Don’t. Just. . .don’t. | ||
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 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sunvox Stick with hanging them on a wall over reading them. I've been going to conventions since about 1982. The books that looked good hanging on a dealer wall then mostly still look good now. And many of them have become significantly less available over the last 10 years. For a long time I focused on first appearances and that served me well even though I was far more conservative than I should have been. Now I focus on great covers (regardless of grade) that are not all that easy to find and fun to display. My gut tells me that will also serve me well. |
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I decided to put about 30K in comics as an investment starting in 2009. I read them my whole life, never collected even one. Wise move. I only bought keys, pre code horror, cool covers, and bought some boxes at the end of conventions too, which I sold and bought more keys. The pile is worth about 200k right now. Mostly graded, easy sellers when I choose to. And a few boxes of first appearances that haven’t taken off yet, you never know. The best part is they are fun to own, way more fun than stock or real estate. News comes out, and you have Warlock keys double, or Shang-Chi triple. Or you find Lobo, the 1st Black comic headliner for $5, and now it’s worth $500. Makes it more fun. I do not see the keys and cool books losing value, I see them gaining steadily, as they have been. I would stick with gold, silver and bronze though. |
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Go look at first editions of the hobbit, Mark Twain, Frankenstein, Dracula, Tarzan the relevant pop culture items of their day. Go try to buy an original King Kong poster. Or maybe buy a house instead(or at least the down payment). Some of them have been appreciating for over a hundred years. I think Frankenstein broke a million. As some other members said stick to the older books. If you buy an early Action or Detective key (or Captain America, Marvel Mystery Comics) with less than a hundred graded don’t you think there will always be more then a hundred people trying to complete a run? I would be very careful about buying hot books like Giant Size X-men which has been all over the place, some people have gotten stung(sorry sellers). As an investment I would stick to the main characters. The more expensive the smaller the pool of buyers. Keep in mind 9.8s can’t stay in their case forever, there will be issues with some of those cases long term. I personally wouldn’t go higher then 9.2’s on really expensive books (over 10k) much safer to handle and less room for grading mistakes. It’s a fun way to save a little. Best of luck and post what you get!!! |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It is a “safe bet” that low volume, culturally significant books will appreciate in value. Reasons below. Applying that filter means: 1. Buy the classics that are valued more on low supply than recent high demand 2. Modern books / variants etc are not low supply (generally) and will be subject to demand and demographic shifts Once something is identified as an “asset class” it rarely falls out of that category. It may fall relatively (like old coins) but they still retain and gain value. Comics will be a sub-category of collectibles that sits near fine art. Highly culturally significant to 20th and 21st century media. Longer permanence in the superhero category than Westerns (which had a very limited lifespan). We are now approaching 100 years of super hero media success. 50+ years modern film impact. This spans all demographics. As source material the classics with low volume will trade in the tens and eventually hundreds of millions (Action Comics 1). Grading distinctions will matter less and less in high value categories. I hold a diversified portfolio and comics are a nice addition. I would not concentrate in any single category. Note that recent general price movements in comics have zero to do with comics… all assets have benefitted from a similar wave. The sub-movements (MCU based, high cost modern speculative books) are subject to significant risk. |
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cesidio private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What goes up will come down | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by cesidio Actually, because of the general characteristics of inflation, this is false. |
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Yes that’s right in the long term and as you said we are seeing that across the board with everything. Though the price of the book could go up but the value of it can decrease with inflation. There is one segment of comic collecting that has gone down are the Carl Barks duck books. They have been left far far behind, some of those books were more expensive then very early marvel silver age keys. Those are also well known global characters. I love reading them though, pure childhood joy. Those of you who haven’t, go read some Carl Barks reprints. |
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andy49 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Agree with most of the others, mainstream titles/characters from the gold & silver age in the best condition you can afford (or find) | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KYDU true re: ducks and same for some Dell books (popeye etc). However, the key is sustained cultural impact. Superman and Batman, in particular, became character archetypes. Spider-man too. Of course they didn’t originate the concepts but they are what historically propelled and popularized those concepts. It is not the same as a Wolverine etc. Huge print volume, less culturally important, I would not be surprised if in 20 years (or less) books like IH181 drop significantly in value. Someone arguing Wolverine is just a different era - I disagree. It is a different type of popularity and massively less relevant to broader pop culture. It makes pricing more subject to demand movements and therefore riskier. Riskier means greater upside and downside. |
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50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Why not look into purchasing original artwork of popular artist (Kirby)? They're worth significantly more than the comic book that the work in printed in and will probably kept is value over time. | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The most valuable today - original art that is IN recognized public works - will of course be big $$ in the future. Something like AC1 is almost both. So rare and so influential it is very likely massively undervalued still, particularly compared to something like AF15. The former is in the same level or scarcity (relatively) as actual original fine art but, excepting very few works, has much broader impact and recognition. The latter has cultural impact but supply is so huge that it is in a different category and likely more at the whims of bubbles and speculation (and has more ability for spec with lower entry points). I would not be surprised it AC1 becomes a $100m book at some point. Maybe not 10 years but 20 years… certainly possible. If anyone sees an AC1 under $100k let me know ;-) |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| To add - I would love the chance to own an AC1 -restored copy- and low grade. I would (personally) value any AC1 with a -predominantly- original cover above virtually ANY copy of AF15. My only requirement is that it be complete and that the restoration not include massive amounts of added pieces to the cover. Conservation work, or restoration through taping, glue etc… couldn’t care less. Unfortunately I don’t think the cost of entry even in extreme low grade will fit my rather limited budget :-/ |
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think the golden age, silver, and Bronze will hold up well. I’m not sure about modern, though. Of course, with The latest round of MCU movies not doing as well, we might see the hobby go back to “normal” and not seem as overheated. As far as getting books for the grandkids, why not get each a key to hold on to? Maybe they have a favorite character? I’ve got a couple of books set aside for my kids. The hope is they keep it and it reminds them of me, but I suppose if they had to sell it to pay the rent, that might ok, too. |
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Sunvox private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 50AE_DE That is a very interesting idea that I hadn't thought of at all. I will most definitely be looking into this further. Thanks for the tip! and to everyone else: Wow! Thanks. Really great answers with lots of thought involved. Exactly what I was looking for. I particularly like the comparison to the Mark Twain, Frankenstein, etc. collectables. I agree with the comparison. I think I'll study the landscape for a while before adding anything new to my collection, but I also think the comments above mostly support the idea that buying older well known classics may in fact be worthwhile. I guess time to start watching for low grade AC1s  I actually did send in my first batch for grading (admittedly I used that other evil company that shall not be named) and it has some older books that I was considering selling, but now maybe I'll focus on adding to that group instead. Here's a photo of one key I sent from my collection:  |
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Sunvox Nice book! I hope you get a good grade when it comes back. |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Great, more competition for low grade AC1s… :-/ ;-) |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "Good investments" in comic books have staying power. We're talking AC1, DC27, AF15, IH1, etc. They will always be very valuable and - because of their scarcity - will likely get an ROI at some point. The vast majority of comic books are a gamble, which is why I always advise people not to "invest" in comic books. I'd rather see people buy comic books who are interested in keeping the medium and hobby alive. There will be a crash sometime in the next 50 years, for sure. Those 'sure things' will still have massive value, because there will still be competition for the absolute 'keys', but everything else will be considered reading material or dreck. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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michaelekrupp private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I am a reader first and a collector second. As such I am more interested in content than commerce. However, I have been around this hobby for several decades and have seen many trends, booms and busts. I agree with the general sentiment expressed here that the best place to put your money as an investment is in golden and silver age keys. I think just about any golden age in fine or better is a safe bet. Moderns are another story. I think the 9.8 bubble we are seeing now will inevitably burst. Apologies to those who disagree, but time will bear me out on this. I would also be wary of any comic from the copper age on up that sells in the hundreds of dollars, as these do exist in great quantity and ultimately long term supply will outweigh the short term surge in demand. I am also beginning to become concerned about non key silver age issues. I do not see a bust coming here, but certainly a market correction, and I would avoid putting my money here, especially in anything but the highest of grades. There is money to be made investing in comics, but the safe money is long term investment in proven keys, not short term speculation. | ||
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 It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey guys, In 1992' I was reading the stock section of the newspaper (there was no internet back then) looking to learn how to and where to invest my money for retirement later on. I was 25 back then. I saw an add in the stock section on the Death of Superman. I though, wait, they can't kill Superman. Maybe I will get a copy as an investment. Well that book 29+ years later is easily bought for 10.00 in near mint condition. Just bought a few more recently for less than that. As I was in the comic store to get my copy, the comic bug bit me hard. So my collecting began. I was buying new books each month (up to 100 titles at one point) but I quickly graduated to the Silver Age and some Bronze Age books. Now I am a meticulous individual, and grade is high on my priority list. More than once I walked into the Orlando Mega-Con with several thousand in cash in my pocket only to walk out with 90+% of it because I wasn't able to find true near mint copies. Yeah, I missed many opportunities on many keys. But I held my ground on my belief that high grade was they best way to invest my cash. So one year at the con, after three to four hours of combing through thousands of books, I came across a guy at a tiny booth with 3 short boxes on his table and no wall hangers behind him. That's odd, I thought to myself. So I stooped and went through is small supply to find all of the books were pedigree copies. Some from the Diamond Collection and mostly from the little known at the time Boston Collection. The guy wanted double guide price on everything. After inspecting a few copies closely, I was hooked. I dropped over 2,000.00 right there. And continued buying more from the same seller for a few years as well as other Pedigree sellers. Keys and non keys. Just anything that was solid near mint 9.4 or better. Then I found a new interest and decided to sell a portion of my books. This was in 2004. CGC had really just come onto the market and grading was relatively new. This is where I met my friend Steve Borock. The returns I got were mind blowing. So, if you are going to invest in comics, Golden Age, Silver Age & some Bronze Age in solid near mint are highly recommended as well as Pedigrees are a solid investment at the right price. The seller I bought those first Pedigrees from still sells comics, but he now concentrates more on the original art from the comics. Covers & Splash pages are the best. You will most certainly make gains on these investments. |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I got out of my collection this year. Sold it all. Now, I buy for my son's collection. He and I hunt for keys for to add to his collection. At some point the bubble will burst. At that point, we will purchase more and expand his collection. The only run that I've thought about replicating with him is Miller's run on Daredevil. |
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