Monthly (Comic) Book Club - November - Superman: Emperor Joker16095
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Monthly (Comic) Book Club - November - Superman: Emperor Joker Superman: Arkham Superman #160 Adventures of Superman #582 Superman: The Man of Steel #104 Action Comics #769 Reign of Emperor Joker Superman: Emperor Joker #1 Superman #161 Adventures of Superman #583 Superman: The Man of Steel #105 Action Comics #770 Week 1 (11/1-11/7): Superman #160, Adventures of Superman #582, Superman: The Man of Steel #104, Action Comics #769 [b]Week 2 (11/8-11/14): Superman: Emperor Joker, Superman #161 [b]Week 3 (11/15-11/21): Adventures of Superman #583, Superman: The Man of Steel #105, Action Comics #770 Discussion topic ideas: * Thoughts on the story or artwork * Details in the story, artwork, or presentation * Adaptations in other media * References to outside events or other works of fiction * Making of/Behind the Scenes details * Editions you will be reading from * Items in your collection pertaining to this week’s selection |
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| Superman 160 drops right into a story where everything seems backward. Superman is locked up in Arkham but escapes, only to be caught by Bizarro and returned to his chains. Arkham is run by Solomon Grundy and the Calendar Man (I think that's his name, off the top of my head), and Superman supposedly killed Lex Luthor and instead Lois Lane runs a very Lexcorp-ish business. Superman and Lois seem to vaguely feel that something is wrong, but no one can act on it very well or put their finger on it. The art by Ed McGuiness seems about right for this story. I recognize him from Deadpool, which is also often offbeat and weird. It's kind of cartoony and feels right. That said, some of the action felt a little weightless. The most effective part of the fight to me was when Bizarro had Superman under water. I'm not a frequent Superman reader, although I have read him in a lot of the big crossovers from trades and some of his own books here and there. I have seen pretty much all the movies. But I hope Bizarro doesn't show up that often, because reading his backward-meaning sentences got a little old. Since this issue basically threw us right into the action, I don't have much to say about plot or whatnot. We'll have to see where the story goes. |
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| Adventures 582 starts similarly to the previous issue. Superman makes his nightly escape and waits to run into Bizarro, still feeling that something is wrong. We see other characters we should know but they aren't quite right. In the previous issue we saw Aquaman but he was part fish. Here I think the head of the convent is supposed to be Perry White, but I don't recognize the other two (Niece Matrix seeming like the more important one; it looks later like she's supposed to be Supergirl). And maybe the biggest giveaway, Mr. Mxyzptlk, is there although he gets hit by a train and a safe. We meet more of the backwards JLA. I know Poison Ivy but the others I don't recognize. I do recognize Turtle and the Flash; I like the nod to Spider-Man's origin when Turtle bites Jimmy Olsen. It also fits with Jimmy's history of turning into weird monsters in the old comics. The issue in general seems cartoony (although the art less so, stylistically); there are nods to Mad Magazine and the sky drops pies when it rains. There's also the cow jumping over the moon while the plate runs away with the spoon. Science is highly frowned on, and even though the religion seems to worship Alfred E. Neuman they aren't supposed to make jokes. The issue ends with Superman fighting off Bizarro and Scorch, at least briefly, but then he's swallowed by Turtle Jimmy. It's all absurd. |
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| So the start of issue 160 was a bit confusing. I thought maybe it was picking up from a previous issue. Superman is imprisoned, he’s wearing a different costume, and apparently his powers are different. Things only get stranger as things go on. Superman is accused of murdering Lex Luthor, who he doesn’t remember, Lois Lane is apparently Lex Luthor, Bizarro is in the Justice League. It’s obvious pretty quick that the start of tbe story was meant to throw you off balance and confuse you because that’s exactly how Superman is feeling. For a brief few panels Mister Mxyzptlk is spotted trying to get superman’s attention. His presence is conspicuous even in it’s brevity. Looking at the table of contents, it looks like a whole host of different writers and artists handle each issue so it’s going to be interesting to see how consistent the arc ends up feeling. As far as this issue goes, it does a great job of dumping the reader into a world that they don’t understand so you are taking some of the journey with Superman and not just reading about him. As an introduction I think it works well because I naturally want to know just what the heck is happening. That said, Bizzaro’s opposite way of speaking makes things a bit difficult. Not that he is difficult to follow once you get used to it but having to turn off the part of your mind that translates his speech when another character is speaking isn’t always automatic and things suddenly start making even less sense. I also enjoyed McGuiness’ art. It’s clean and stylized and it reminds me a lot of the Superman Animated series. |
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| The parade of weirdness continues in Adventures of Superman 502. Mister Mxyzptlk once again makes a brief appearance before having an anvil dropped on his head. Dispatched in a cartoonishly slapstick manner as he was in the prior issue. So one thing really stuck out to me almost immediately while reading this issue was its liberal use of narration boxes. I wasn’t sure at first why this was and then I remembered the different writers and I realized that the previous issue used very few, if any, narration. Everything was told in the dialogue. It was an interesting difference in writing style and I wonder if it was done intentionally for the story or if Loeb simply rarely uses them. I haven’t read much of Loeb’s work and it’s been years since I’ve read Long Halloween. Doesn’t Loeb do a lot of work with Marvel or DC’s television production? That medium uses very little narration with more of a focus on dialogue like we saw in the last issue. As for this issue, we once again start hearing familiar names in wildly unfamiliar contexts. Auntie Better-Than-We-Are seems to be a version of Granny Goodness, and I had to look it up but Matrix was an alias for Supergirl. The artwork in the issue is entirely different from what we saw previously, feeing more like a straight super hero comic. It really reminded me of some mid-90s Spider-Man books. The main story of the issue is fairly straightforward. This world’s Supergirl (who doesn’t know she’s Supergirl) has visions telling her she must save Superman. Superman has once again escaped from Arkham but this time isn’t immediately pursued. He’s seemingly helped by the villainous Lois Lane who wants to find out why she feels a significant, unexplainable connection to him. She imprisons him herself and has her scientists experiment and torture him. During some seemingly unrelated interlude, Jimmy Olsen is attending a lecture at a University where an alternate version of the Flash and Turtleman (is this an existing character?) appear during a demonstration. Olden is bitten and transforms into a giant turtleman himself. Supergirl escapes the convent and Lois realizes that her secret lab has been discovered (thanks to a giant flashing sign) so she frees Superman kn an attempt to save him. Superman encounters Bizzaro and discover some previously unknown strength that helps him defeat him. Supergirl finds Superman but is immediately stomped on by Olsen who proceeds to eat Superman as Lois watches on her monitors and cries. The story is just full of weird things for no reason, like the dish and the spoon riding a cow, the rain of cream pies, and the giant sign revealing Superman’s location. While they are all superficially silly gags, the fact that they are so out of place lends them some sinister undertones. Beneath the superficial wackiness though is a very grim and hopeless world. We’ve already seen Superman escape Arkham twice and he makes it clear he has done so too many times to count. Superman himself is ragged and exhausted, very different from how we are used to seeing him. The study of science is frowned upon, the “heroes” are reckless villains, and angelic saviors are unceremoniously dispatched. It is a very bleak seemingly unescapable existence and it is clearly having an effect on Superman |
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I agree. I know about the background of the story, so I wasn't totally put off, but you definitely feel dropped into the middle of something. I assume that when we find out what caused all this, it will be a bit more natural because Superman (and everyone else) will have been dropped into it all of a sudden as well. Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite I recognized the Turtle from the Flash TV show. I don't know how often he's shown up, but there have apparently been a couple of Turtles going all the way back to 1945 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_(comics) |
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| Man of Steel 104. Superman has come out on the other side of Olsen Turtle and isn't at Arkham but at a related facility. Everything is still topsy-turvy, where people in charge are acting bizarrely and people who act rationally are locked up. I don't recognize all the characters we see, but I did pick out Swamp Thing (and I assume this Granny is the proper Granny Goodness?). Superman runs into Henry Irons, usually Steel, and they bond over both knowing basic physics equations. Superman's powers are vaguely returning, as he accidentally uses his heat vision, but it wears him out and Bizarro takes him out pretty easily. He buys time for Henry to get into his armor though, and Steel blasts Bizarro into a building. More importantly, we see Mr. Mxyzptlk again. Someone else has done something careless, and Mxy is about to be hit by a train again but the building falls on it. This buys him enough time to tell Superman that the answers he needs are in JLA Headquarters on the moon. Lois Lane somewhat accidentally gives them the help they need by throwing Superman and Steel into the UFO that Supes was trapped in to start the issue. We have another art and writing team, but the issue definitely feels part of the arc. It isn't quite as over the top as the previous issue but moves things along. |
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| Action 769. This issue starts with Superboy, who seems to feel that something is wrong too. Apparently the Super-people have some kind of resistance to whatever has happened, as we've seen Superman, Supergirl, Steel, and now Superboy all feel that things are wrong. Lois Lane also has a confusing connection to Superman, but so far is still acting in character as a Lex Luthor stand-in by largely using Superman's disruption to increase her power. Superman and Steel make it to the moon, and after a rough fight with whoever Ignition is, Superman meets Mr. Mxyzptlk in a more recognizable form. Mxy returns Superman's memory, and apparently Supes is pretty angry because he goes right to choking Mxy to make him say his name backward. He does, and it does nothing, because we finally get the reveal that Joker is actually in charge of everything going on. I don't have strong meta-feelings about this issue. The art was fine. I'm not sure that Superman's dialogue felt right, but then again he isn't 100% right. And I don't read him enough to really say, anyway. I think the arc overall has been good. It's an interesting story, and we've had to learn what's happening in the world along with Superman. The changes in writing and art teams has created some small inconsistencies but I think they've told the story well overall and the art has had opportunities to do fun things. The Joker is an unusual villain for Superman, so we'll see how the back half pans out. |
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| Man of Steel #104 feels very straightforward compared to the previous issues so far. Superman has “passed through” Jimmy Olsen and is locked up with other logical thinkers, including Hank Irons. Superman takes the fact that he recognizes some of the physics equations that Hank is muttering as proof that there is a rational universe out there meaning that the irrational world they find themselves in is somehow wrong. The two escape from the UFO facility and find Irons’ Steel suit only to be tracked down by Bounty, which Superman dispatches quickly with his eye beams but just like when he used his super strength in the previous issue it leaves him exhausted and vulnerable to Bizarro. Superman buys time for Steel to suit up and knock out Bizarro with the resulting damage actually saving Mr Mxyptlk from being offed by a train. This seems to have broken the pattern we’ve been observing of him being comedically removed before he can accomplish much of anything. this time, he is able to tell Superman and Steel that the answers they are looking for are at the JLA base on the moon. Then he is promptly dispatches with a giant weight. Superman and Steel are then captured by the villainous Lois Lane who tosses them back to i to the UFO facility hoping they will cause more trouble for the current leadership. The night them ends like everyone before with a tortured scream echoing out across all radio frequencies. Again, this chapter is very straightforward compared to the other two issues and it feels just as much a moment of clarity as it is for Mr Mxyptlk. We don’t exactly what’s going on but we now know more than we did and know where to seek answers next. |
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The Emperor Joker one-shot picks up after Action 769. We finally see Joker, which provides a little explanation for some people we haven't seen: he has Harley by his side, and Lex Luthor as his jester. He put together his version of the JLA, but apparently may not have made Ignition. I'm guessing that will pay off later. Also maybe paying off later is that Luthor is upset with the Joker for having so much power and wasting it on toying with the good guys. Joker eats everyone in China, which is both an absurd interpretation of a phrase ("Chinese food" and monstrous, which I guess makes it on-brand.The good guys start to get together. Superboy finds Supergirl, and Lois rescues Superman, Steel, and Mxy when Ignition shoots their rocket out of the sky (atmosphere, I guess). Mxy reveals that he wanted to give the Joker a small portion of his power as a new way to mess with Superman, but instead Joker got 99.9% of his power. Without Mxy's restraint of wanting to keep the game going, though, Joker has dramatically changed everything. The gang goes to recruit the rest of the 'regular' JLA with updated origin stories. They're all kind of absurd, but the one I like the best is Plastic Man being able to turn himself into credit cards. That's a solid pun. Superman, apparently remembering more all the time, asks about Batman. Joker has the three Robins (at the time, I assume) all dead. He's also affected big Cosmic-level folks like Shazam and Phantom Stranger, and converts Darkseid before Darkseid can try to assert his own need for domination. The whazzup commercial reference is immediately dated. Superman's actions and speech seem on their way to swaying the altered heroes, which Luthor says is basically the nail in the coffin for Joker's plans (such as he might have plans). Joker kills him, which I guess means there won't be any particular payoff for Luthor's role in the story. The issue is fine, and lays out why everything is happening (at least mechanistically). I'm not a big fan of the Joker, and the jokes are hit and miss for me. I wonder how likely it is that the back half of the arc has less Joker, like the beginning did? |
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| Action Comics 769 keeps things moving as Superman and Steel approach the JLA tower and seemingly the answer to why everything has been so insane in the last few issues. I do feel the story has been pretty well paced so far as each issue makes some solid steps forward. Had the story spent an issue or two just languishing in the absurdity of the world I think it might’ve been a bit insufferable. Fortunately the in-your-face “wackiness” seems to fade more in the background in each issue in favor of pushing the overall story forward. Superman definitely isn’t himself and even he notices it himself at one point. It very much seems the stress of being subjected to an unfair, illogical world that has him doubting reality and his own identity has taken its toll. One thing I do kind of regret is not being able to read this with no knowledge of the story. It really must’ve been a trip for a new reader to be thrown into this world with no context to finally get to the big reveal that Joker now has the power to reshape the universe. |
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| So this might be as good a place as any to share the Emperor Joker episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold. It’s very loosely inspired by the comic book arc and it’s been changed to make it a Batman story as opposed to a Superman story. Mr Mxyptlik is replaced by Bat-Mite and as a single 20-minite episode we don’t see the Joker wrecking nearly as much reality-altering havoc but it is still an interesting episode. Also, one of my very first sketch cover commissions was based on Harley Quinn’s flapper appearance in the episode (though fleshed out a little to add a little more recognizable Harley elements to the design). So it’s indirectly an Emperor Joker commission. Though Harley in your court dress is actually a commission I’m planning very soon!  |
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| Superman 161. The Superteam is going after Joker. They're trying to sneak in from underwater instead of making an aerial approach, which makes me wonder what Joker's powers are supposed to be. I haven't read any Mxy stories, so I'm not sure what all he inherited. Doesn't he have some amount of omniscience? Or can he just make things happen on a large scale without keeping track of it all? I guess, given the story, that it seems odd to complain about consistency or things making sense. A couple things did strike me, though. The first one was Superman using his heat vision underwater. It should boil all the way along the beam, right? Not just at the piranhas. The second was when they see the Joker's base and are very put off. It isn't great, but they seem to be overreacting to me. They haven't seen worse things on Apokalips, or some other terrible place? In terms of plot, Lois and Steel break into Joker's throne room, where Joker is willing to listen to what Lois has to say. Superboy and Supergirl are missing after being blasted by Ignition, although Ignition seems to have lost track of Superman. Bizarro shows up but runs off after Superman crushes his "#1" necklace. And Superman finds (what he thinks is) Batman, but he's dead. It makes sense in a general way that they would be counting on Batman to fight the Joker, but it's weird in a Superman-centric story for everyone to completely backseat themselves to Batman. |
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| So the Emperor Joker one-shot basically explains what has happened in this world. The Joker conned Mxy out of most of his power and reality has become his playground. I did like that they point out that he hasn’t quite come to grips with the full scope of his power. I guess it just seems something reasonable that you don’t hear a lot in fiction of this sort. I also like that this issue very much feels like a turning point in that it now feels like a Superman story, what with Superman trying to inspire hope into the villainous JLA of this world to rise to the potential of their real-world selves. It doesn’t work entirely but we like Superman for trying and knowing he will try again. The Joker is definitely a peculiar character. I guess I never felt the Joker was meant to be funny; his Jokes, not just here, but for the character in general seems more for his own benefit than ours and the fact that he finds it funny and we don’t speaks to the gulf in difference in our perception of the world. On the idea of his humor being for his benefit, I think that is shown to extend to the character more generally. We kind of understand comic book characters in general as either good guys or bad guys and this book kind of shows that the Joker’s singularity also extends to how he fits into that binary interpretation. He’s in no way a good guy but given the power and opportunity, Joker will kill, torture, and humiliate the bag guys same as he would the good. If there is a binary world view that might be applied I think a more appropriate one would be rationality versus chaotic. Good guys and bad, different as they are, are both rational while the Joker , not so much. |
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| So taking a quick look at the Wikipedia page, Mxyptlk’s powers are described simply as the power to warp reality and that his powers are basically limited by his personality. So I don’t think omniscience is a part of it necessarily and I don’t think he’s necessarily aware of everything he’s created at all times. While looking into Mxzyptlk’s powers I did learn that he and Bat-Mite are from the same 5th dimensional race. I had kind of just assumed they were just similar but unrelated. Since they are the same race, it makes even more sense for the cartoon to have used Bat-Mite when changing the focus to Batman. I do think it makes sense to want to recruit Batman but it the way they explain it does seem like they’re expecting a bit too much from a regular human to stop a cosmic-level threat. Had they just said “let’s find Batman because we need all the help we can get” I think it would’ve felt a little less out of place. I suspect Ignition is more than he seems as well. Not only is he incredibly powerful but as you pointed out, he may not be a product of the Joker’s meddling and he seems to know more about…something that has yet to be revealed. I felt the story got a little choppy in this issue. Like it’s skipping a few scenes in order compress the story to fit. At the end of the Emperor Joker one-shot, I don’t think there was any indication that they were going to approach Joker City. Bizarro kinda just gives up on fighting Superman a little too quickly, it would’ve been nice to just have a scene with Lois disappearing on Steel or something, and Superman just kind of quickly finds Batman in the last two pages. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I pretty much agree. I think his characterization has changed a bit over time (as it would have to, since the character has existed for like 80 years), but this one is certainly the 'agent of chaos' type. There's a good dash of self-importance or narcissism thrown in, too. That probably feeds in to his jokes being mostly for himself. It's interesting (maybe just to me) to think about comparing this Joker to the Dark Knight/Heath Ledger Joker. The movie Joker struck me as not being about chaos so much as the fragile little bit of society holding a bunch of self-interesting, selfish people in line. If you gave people a little push, they would turn on each other immediately. Society would break down, which would lead to chaos, but I didn't get the feeling that chaos itself was the main point. I wonder if that Joker, given 5th dimensional imp powers, would be making it rain pies or any of that stuff. |
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| Adventures 583 starts pretty grimly considering the story so far. Superman takes Batman off the wall and buries him, but then Batman rises from the grave. Kind of dark! Joker killing Steel is also sudden but played more for laughs (or at least absurdity). Superman returns to help Batman defeat his daily dose of evil clowns, and briefly see the proper Gotham. Supergirl and Superboy are in hell but avoid Satanus' temptation, joining Bats and Supes. Joker starts a battle royale with his Justice League and the 'real' Justice League, but the main squad transport themselves into Joker's soul. Lois turns on Superman, ruining his faith, which gives the Joker the chance to destroy the universe and reshape it with the team as super-pets. I guess it makes sense that things will get abstract when you're talking about universe-warping stories, but this one was a bit odd for me. It feels like we're spinning wheels a bit instead of wrapping up the story. |
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| Man of Steel 105. Joker changes course on the super-pets pretty quickly, and instead decides to break Superman's spirit while broadcasting it as a threat/propaganda to everyone else. When he tries to help someone or defy the Joker, people die. He accidentally kills Lois, but the fact that she expected him to help her is enough to solidify his will and belief in a different world. The broadcast of his belief is enough to wake up the rest of the JLA, who prepare to attack the Joker. This issue feels a little less like wheel-spinning, but it isn't really different from what we had a few issues earlier where Superman's belief is strong enough to bring others along with him. I think I'm experiencing diminishing returns with the extra time spent in this universe, and it could have wrapped up a few issues earlier without missing too much. |
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| Action 770. I guess they did storm Joker City, because we start with the JLA defeated and Superman despondent. Joker has explicitly moved up the timetable for his plan; he's going to kill everyone before his mucking around with the universe kills them anyway. Some of the non-believers in the Joker's camp (Luthor, Ignition, Riddler) finally come together. It doesn't look like it will be enough, even when Joker is obliviated and Superman flies through his head. Mxy tells Superman to try to figure out the rules, and he realizes that Joker has to have Batman. Joker's inability to eliminate Batman from the universe lets Superman ignore the Joker's powers, and that somehow fixes things. At least mostly; Batman is going to die from the sheer mental toll of everything that happened, until the Spectre takes his memories and puts them in Superman. Superman takes a little time to hang out with Lois and go with Batman to visit Joker, but he seems to handle everything ok. I like the general idea of this story, but I'm not a big fan of the execution. I think it ran a few issues longer than it needed to, and I'm not sure I like the resolution either. The idea of Joker needing to be defeated by some rule makes sense, as that's basically how Mxy works, but saying that because he can't do one thing that he can't do anything doesn't sit right with me. It also makes sense that Batman would be the key, since the bad guy is the Joker, but it's weird to put it in a Superman story. They basically said Batman is the most important guy in the universe! It seems like a bad fit. I also feel like they left some loose ends, even with all the space to tell the story. Why did so many people feel that things were wrong? Superman makes sense, with his strong will and beliefs, but Lois, Luthor, and others all saw through Joker's changes to varying degrees even before Superman gave them something to believe in. It felt like people's belief in Superman or another reality was going to be key, and nothing came of it. And who was Ignition? It felt like that was going to be a key reveal and then nothing came of it. That said, the story did give opportunities to hit some Superman main points. His ability to inspire, his commitment to doing the right thing, his loyalty and belief in others, all come up several times. Nothing really comes of them, as the JLA barely come together and are defeated off-panel and Lois dies in the end, but they're there. I think this would have been better off as a Batman story, even with Superman as the 'main character', running through various Batman series. It makes sense that Joker would keep Batman around and torture him, so he can be out of action for most of the story, but you would have more of the Batman universe of characters involved and it is more thematically in line to have Batman be the crux of the story. Make it maybe 5 or 6 issues instead of 9 and I think it's a winner. |
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| I watched the Brave and Bold cartoon you linked to. It isn't what I was suggesting in the previous post exactly (the musical bit was odd, but I guess you're allowed some odd with the Joker) but I think it works a lot better. | ||
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| I think I took it more as Batman being the most important thing in the Joker’s Universe and not so much that the fact that he can’t do that one thing means he can’t do anything (though that’s what Superman said to get it into his head). As Superman said, it’s the white elephant thing and suddenly that’s all he can think about. Joker get’s so fixated on trying to erase Batman but in being unable to do so makes Batman grow that much bigger and take up more space in the Joker’s mind until it all just collapsed. It made me think of like a computer on an infinite loop, adding more to it’s memory each loop until it can’t support it anymore and it just crashes. Overall, I enjoyed the story. It does several things very right but it isn’t a perfect execution. I agree the pacing can be a bit of a problem. It does seem to spend a lot of time on things that are not followed through sufficiently. The JLA is probably the biggest embodiment of this. The story spends pages with their new origns and Superman trying to instill hope to get them to remember who they are. At the 11th hour they become who we remember them to be only to be defeated off-page? The Joker recreates the universe and turns the heroes into pets leaving us on a cliffhanger only for him to change his mind a few pages into the next issue. I feel like if they trimmed some of the fluff and given the more intriguing elements more time it could definitely have filled those nine issues well. Ignition was also a hanging thread that bugged me. He’s this incredibly powerful adversary, it is brought up a couple of times that his origin is a mystery, even to the Joker, and he plays a large role in the story but we never get any answers about him. More certainly could have been done to tie him into the fabric of the story better. I do understand how making it a Batman story would make obvious sense but I think the outside perspective is better for the overall story. It worked on Batman Brave and the Bold but that was highly condensed and it fell back on the “Batman has the strong will” trope to cow the god-like Joker fairly easily. I think it was more interesting to see Batman defeated and broken and the Joker defeated not so much by Batman or Superman but by his own obsession with Batman. One thing I really liked about the story was that it nailed the bleak absurdity, almost too well. It really made the universe itself feel hostile to rationality, often riding both sides of helping set the tone and dragging the storytelling down a little. This leads a little into the other thing I really liked and that is the way it portrayed the conflict against a god-like entity. Again it felt incredibly overwhelming and hopeless as such an obstacle should feel. Part of that was because it made the conflict less about the physical, which I think trivializes the idea of “god-like power” a little bit. Compared to say The Infinity Gauntlet where Thanos is supposed to have mastery over Power, Soul, Reality, Time, Reality, and Space but the conflict is reduced to stealing a glove. Or to look at the MCU where Thanos tells Thor he “should’ve gone for the head.” Well Superman punched through the Joker’s head but it did little to stop him. It basically ended up being the Joker himself that defeated the Joker in this story. I also agree that the story does well at showing what Superman is best as and this being an inspiration. Not digesting much Superman in recent years outside of the DCEU it can be easy to forget that that’s what really sets Superman apart, not just being so powerful that he makes the rest of the Justice League superfluous. |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Having the Joker defeat himself is a good way of describing the finale, and is a bit more satisfactory of a way to wrap things up. Joker's powers are inherent to him at this point; like you said, it isn't the infinity gauntlet where someone can just yank off the glove and the power goes away. It still leaves me feeling a little underdeveloped though. Maybe I'm thinking too mechanistically, but shouldn't there be some particular thing that has to happen, or some magic spell, to transfer the powers back to Mxyzptlk? There was this talk of rules, and when Superman battles Mxy there are rules to sending him back, but here Joker has a crisis of faith and that suddenly does the trick? Your take makes it a bit better for me but it still doesn't quite hit the landing. |
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| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
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COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That’s fair. I thought it felt kind of like a fade to white/some time later kind of thing so it worked for me but I can understand how it can feel like there is a missing scene. I kind of feel that way about how Joker got his powers in the first place. Mxy explains that he decided to mess around with the Joker by giving him a bit of his power but somehow ends up giving him 99% without any real explanation as to how it happened. Seems like a pretty big “oh well” | ||
| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, that seemed like quite a mistake too. Like if Superman went to shake someone's hand and whoops! completely crushed it. | ||
| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
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