Roy Thomas says Wolverines first appearance is #180 | CBCS Comics

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros
Cameo: Appearance by well known character (shortened def from Merriam-Webster). So, moot here.
First Appearance: Exactly what it says. Hulk 180
First Full Appearance: First starring role in a book. Hulk 181

The people who say otherwise are those who paid a lot of money for 181

Or those that paid less for Hulk 180 and keep hoping that it will someday be worth more than 181. As Lois Greiman said, "False hope is better than no hope at all."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros
Ok next.. Boba Fett

The Empire Strikes back paperback. May 1980. It was so early and Lucas so secretive and worried about leaks that Marvel did not know exactly what Yoda looked like. When Marvel Super Special 16 reprinted the paperback, Yoda was redrawn in the panels he appeared in. Then Marvel Super Special 16 was reprinted in Star Wars issues 39-44/

Logic doesn't matter. A lot more people collect magazine size comics than paperback comics - and a lot more people still collect comic books than collect magazines. So #42 gets the most attention and best prices, even though it's a reprint of a reprint.

Hulk 181 is worth a lot more and will always be worth a lot more because of the classic cover and the interior is page after page of Hulk and Wolverine battling. The story is all about Wolverine. One can own Hulk 180 and legitimately say they own the first appearance of Wolverine. One panel on the last page, largely unexpected (there were a few references in the story that the Canadian government might have to unleash their secret weapon)

Or you could just own both and cover your bets....

4 years ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towmater
Because the hobby made a decision on this a long time ago.

It's part of the shifting sands of time in our hobby and always subject to modest tweaking and reevaluation. The point about which book is the big money book isn't in question. It's not an either/or question, it's whether another technically accurate addition to the history can move the needle slightly in the direction of reappraisal of the earlier book's demand.

Over time #180 will likely increase in value ...not overtaking the primary appearance, but adding the nuance of added interest and increased demand.

As a GA collector I find this interesting because a similar situation exists with the legendary Human Torch/Submariner battle in Marvel Mystery. The first series of battles purportedly starts in issue #8 ending with #10, but has a precursor via set-up in #7 when the Torch is informed that Sub-Mariner is attacking NYC. Obviously the battle doesn't start till #8, but in alluding to it directly in the prior story ...in more than a blurb... it becomes part of the epic story.

Will this ever make MM #7 valued as part of this battle series? Who knows, but it's still great fodder for speculation. My two cents, for whatever that's worth in inflationary times.

would be nice to have a snugger fit. 4.73K	4.73K Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Cameo: Appearance by well known character (shortened def from Merriam-Webster). So, moot here. First Appearance: Exactly what it says. Hulk 180 First Full Appearance: First starring role in a book. Hulk 181 The people who say otherwise are those who paid a lot of money for 181
	4 years ago	Post 26 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	and then once you demonstrate it is the first appearance it becomes a moving goalpost as the argument then gets reshaped to say...first FULL appearance...ugh
	4 years ago	Post 27 • IP flag post

Thank you sir. May I have another? 26.16K	26.16K Siggy private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 9
	Best to just make it an appreciation thread.
	4 years ago	Post 28 • IP flag post

You can't get good wood on the ball every time. 5.42K	5.42K HotKeyComics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	At least we can all agree on the 1st appearance of Venom and HIM.
	4 years ago	Post 30 • IP flag post

would be nice to have a snugger fit. 4.73K	4.73K Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Ok next.. Boba Fett
	4 years ago	Post 31 • IP flag post

I’m Kinda Married To A Celebrity. 18.91K	18.91K 00slim private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I never cared much for cameo appearances.
	4 years ago	Post 32 • IP flag post

Collector 25.63K	25.63K poka private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	@IronMan time will tell - it is interesting to note that a 9.8 180 has increased 600% in value for the past 3 years whereas 181 “only” increased 250% in the same period.
	4 years ago	Post 34 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by poka @IronMan time will tell - it is interesting to note that a 9.8 180 has increased 600% in value for the past 3 years whereas 181 “only” increased 250% in the same period. @poka To your point, maybe the more important debate is what should the price ratio be? A while back I did some analysis and if I remember correctly the Hulk 180 consistently ran at about 20% of the #181 price, in mid-grades 7.0-8.0ish. I always thought that was low, and it appears that the gap has closed to something like 30% this year.
	4 years ago	Post 35 • IP flag post

past performance is no guarantee of future actions. 31.66K	31.66K KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 12
	Quote: Originally Posted by Siggy Best to just make it an appreciation thread. Ooooooo appreciation thread!.....I was in line at like 5 am for this puppy! organizers let me in so I would be front of line (even ahead of the dirty rotten vendors who always jump in line first!!)
	4 years ago	Post 36 • IP flag post

Collector 938	938 KYDU private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	I got this from him (there’s more to it but I don’t have a complete scan), it’s 11 X 17. It was great to speak with him for as long as I wanted. He was great and I wound up speaking with him via email and phone again. Believe it or not I had discussed getting 181 recreated with him. He wanted to do it and I was trying to get the money together but he passed away unexpectedly. I was shocked. Apparently the art to the whole issue was lost in a fire at Len Wein’s house. So we were going to recreate it for my “collection”. He did the splash first but that’s as far as we got. I’ve probably talked too much but great very down to earth guy.
	4 years ago	Post 39 • IP flag post

Collector 980	980 BrashSmurf private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	i agree and own neither book and probably never will its why i got Spawn 119 and Spawn 174. i wanted first appearance and first full
	4 years ago	Post 41 • IP flag post

Maybe they just like me better. Nah, that's not it. 709	709 BPaxson002 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	shit. Guess I should have picked up all those 180s for like 5 bucks mint back in the 80s.
	4 years ago	Post 42 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.21K	80.21K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by poka Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia Quote: Originally Posted by poka @IronMan time will tell - it is interesting to note that a 9.8 180 has increased 600% in value for the past 3 years whereas 181 “only” increased 250% in the same period. @poka To your point, maybe the more important debate is what should the price ratio be? A while back I did some analysis and if I remember correctly the Hulk 180 consistently ran at about 20% of the #181 price, in mid-grades 7.0-8.0ish. I always thought that was low, and it appears that the gap has closed to something like 30% this year. It is 45% now for 9.8 As I stated earlier, the dispute was never 1st appearance...it was always which should be the money book or why isn't 180 closing the value gap to 181.
	4 years ago	Post 43 • IP flag post

Collector* 10.54K	10.54K Towmater private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Because the hobby made a decision on this a long time ago.
	4 years ago	Post 44 • IP flag post

Collector 7.68K	7.68K Helric1 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	My favorite quote from the article maybe - "What you should really do if you were a real collector, you got to get both of them."
	4 years ago	Post 46 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus 31.46K	31.46K CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Quote: Originally Posted by Towmater Because the hobby made a decision on this a long time ago. It's part of the shifting sands of time in our hobby and always subject to modest tweaking and reevaluation. The point about which book is the big money book isn't in question. It's not an either/or question, it's whether another technically accurate addition to the history can move the needle slightly in the direction of reappraisal of the earlier book's demand. Over time #180 will likely increase in value ...not overtaking the primary appearance, but adding the nuance of added interest and increased demand. As a GA collector I find this interesting because a similar situation exists with the legendary Human Torch/Submariner battle in Marvel Mystery. The first series of battles purportedly starts in issue #8 ending with #10, but has a precursor via set-up in #7 when the Torch is informed that Sub-Mariner is attacking NYC. Obviously the battle doesn't start till #8, but in alluding to it directly in the prior story ...in more than a blurb... it becomes part of the epic story. Will this ever make MM #7 valued as part of this battle series? Who knows, but it's still great fodder for speculation. My two cents, for whatever that's worth in inflationary times. .
	4 years ago	Post 47 • IP flag post

Roy Thomas says Wolverines first appearance is #18016093