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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Every other respected collectible grading company (CGC, Beckett, PSA, SGC, VGA) has restricted their tiers, increased their prices, or both. CBCS is the only one I know of that hasn't done so. Maybe it's time for CBCS to restrict the modern tier. At the very least maybe they should limit the Modern tier to books from 1975 to 2000. This will substantially cut down on all the people trying to flip books they bought for $5 and sell for less than $100 (I'm part of this group and don't mind having to narrow down my submissions) and a lot of other crap that could do without grading (I own far too many of these slabs as well).

If it's a modern book from 2001 or later worth submitting, they can still use the other tiers at the higher cost. The current model isn't working. I also hope CBCS doesn't plan on releasing the magazine sized slabs until the issues with all the other grading tiers are resolved. This would create an even bigger headache.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroman
Well in my case I am a CGC elite member and have been for several years. I've got 9 days left on the current membership and have turned off my auto-renew.


I could tell you were one of the exceptions by the fact that you ultimately recognized there is a third option, one that larger volume submitters don't normally use because of the cost.
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CBCS Boomhauer HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroman
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
Almost by definition they are the most impatient, price-resistant, customers who do low volume submissions and didn't buy into the higher tiers of the CGC loyalty program.


Well in my case I am a CGC elite member and have been for several years. I've got 9 days left on the current membership and have turned off my auto-renew. I would normally send in a submission every month or two so the 15% (now 10%) discount was compelling. Haven't sent one in since March so pretty much just feel cheated out of my membership fees for the current year. I may send one final one in before my membership expires but I'm not planning on re-joining until these TATs are down to a more reasonable timeframe. Hopefully that will not be too long, and honestly I will happily convert over to CBCS if they can get their act together before CGC. Unfortunately the comments I'm seeing on this thread are not giving me that warm fuzzy...



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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
@Heinzdad haha reminds of this:

Post 129 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
At the very least maybe they should limit the Modern tier to books from 1975 to 2000. This will substantially cut down on all the people trying to flip books they bought for $5 and sell for less than $100 (I'm part of this group and don't mind having to narrow down my submissions).


@flanders I don't think CBCS needs to be in the business of making value judgements, which books are worthy and which are not. Although I have to admit that when I search "CBCS" on Ebay I'm always surprised by how much of the results volume is recent modern books that I had no idea existed. It's always best to set up a system that causes the market to self-select rather than making arbitrary value judgements.
Post 130 IP   flag post


I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
don't think CBCS needs to be in the business of making value judgements


I think they can cut down on volume, reduce turnaround times, and maintain or even increase their profit by using the same model every other successful grading company has used, including their parent company Beckett, during the insane increase of lockdown submissions, by restructuring or closing tiers.

Introducing a new magazine tier or leaving the tiers as is, doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why Beckett hasn't revised CBCS's tiers, but as I type this, it's clear they've considered it, have access to far more data than the zero data I have, have been running a successful business for decades, and decided that how things are running currently is the best option for CBCS. I'm done rambling for now .
Post 131 IP   flag post
Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
I think they can cut down on volume, reduce turnaround times, and maintain or even increase their profit by using the same model every other successful grading company has used, including their parent company Beckett, during the insane increase of lockdown submissions, by restructuring or closing tiers.


I totally agree, I just think they should avoid making the judgement of determining that some modern books are less worthy than others. I would let the market decide that. Unless they think it's hurting their brand to have such a high ratio of "After-2000" books in their slabs, which is a legitimate consideration. If "CGC" makes people think of Action Comics #1 and "CBCS" makes people think of Detective Comics 1000, that could be a brand perception issue. Not sure if I'm reading it right though.
Post 132 IP   flag post
Collector PhantomStranger271 private msg quote post Address this user
Ok, but how does TAT "estimate" 17 weeks? What factors do they base it on? Is it taking in account how many orders CBCS is processing at the time an order is sent in? What happens if there is an overload of orders? Is that how long to slab one comic?

Or is multiple factors? Or a combination of any I listed? Anything I'm ignoring/forgetting?

I'm tempted to just learn how to do this myself.
Post 133 IP   flag post
Collector Supertom private msg quote post Address this user
@EbayMafia @flanders A simple way to alleviate this is to stop taking submissions once they hit a certain capacity, say 1,000 book, and set up a que system. Submit your books online like you normally would, and once CBCS is caught up, they send you a notification to ship your books. That way even if it's a 7 month wait, 5 of those months the books will still be in your possession. It benefits everyone involved. We don't have to wait around guessing what stage our books are in and blowup their forum with negativity, and CBCS doesn't have to store, sort through, and insure a mountain of boxes. I'd guess air conditioned warehouse space isn't cheap in Texas.

I also personally think the whole fast track system was a bad idea from the start. All books should be graded in the order they're received. If the problem they're having is throughput then why waste time sorting through who paid a little more. It's costing them time, space, and customer loyalty to sit on all these books rather than just moving through orders in a timely and efficient manner. I'm sure their employees are overworked and frustrated too. It just seems like a frustrating business model for all involved. Imagine if a restaurant took an infinite number of reservations and just told you to show up and wait. Then someone shows up and gets a table in 10 mins. You ask why and they tell you, "Oh they paid an extra $10 for their cheesy fries."
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Forum Mascot ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
Still in labels....sigh
Post 135 IP   flag post
Collector Petroman private msg quote post Address this user
Whichever company can solve the excessive TAT problem first stands to be the big winner here. Personally I hope it is CBCS as I think it really benefits the comic book industry on the whole to have two big players in the grading space that are roughly the same size as that type of competition will be best for the consumer. I don't know how much bigger CGC is than CBCS but I've been tracking Ebay sales for several years and can see that the volume of CGC graded book sales are quite a bit higher than CBCS sales, currently around 15-1 (but they used to be well over 20-1). There is also currently a price arbitrage opportunity between the two brands as CBCS books sell at a discount to CGC. I think this discount is narrowing, but have not analyzed the sales enough. In any event, I think CBCS is is caught between a rock and a hard place. Raising rates at this point would likely cause a decrease in submissions. Yes, they likely want this, but they also want to continue to grab market share from CGC. I would love to know the effect that CGC price increases had on submissions to CBCS. My guess is that it caused a significant boost to CBCS submissions (and obviously increased the TATs). Unfortunately, if they cannot keep their existing and new clients happy they run the risk of a decreasing client base. But then again, there aren't many options for those looking to submit books elsewhere. This is certainly a fascinating industry-wide train wreck to watch, although I'm sure most of us wished we weren't on the train.
Post 136 IP   flag post
Collector Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user
I know that CBCS is behind on entering the submission they receive, but does anyone have current information on how long it is taking from a submission being received at CBCS to the status changing form "Submitted" to "Received" and getting an e-mail from CBCS confirming the receipt of the submission?
Post 137 IP   flag post
I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
@Lonestar my submission that was delivered on July 6th was marked as received on August 16th and I received a notification email. So it took 6 weeks and I'm assuming it will take at least that long if not more, for anything submitted from August or later.
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Collector Lonestar private msg quote post Address this user
@flanders Thanks so much for the info.
Post 139 IP   flag post
Collector glow private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
@Lonestar my submission that was delivered on July 6th was marked as received on August 16th and I received a notification email. So it took 6 weeks and I'm assuming it will take at least that long if not more, for anything submitted from August or later.


does the 6 weeks to be marked as received count for all tiers? (i.e. 2 Day Modern too?) Or is this just for Modern/Expanded?
Post 140 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroman
Guess we've all got 2 choices -- 1) send your books in the abyss and hope they will come back within six months to a year, or 2) wait six months to a year and hope the TATs will come down. I don't particularly like either option. I guess the third option is the pay a premium to try to fast track the books and hope you get them back in 2 months or so


The third option is the key, I will be sending in far less books for now and paying a lot more to have them move faster. And maybe that's how grading should be. Maybe we were spoiled, paying so little to get to much FMV added to our books. The new situation is probably more fair, with the grading companies getting a bigger portion of the value if they expedite. Just wish I hadn't got caught in the change-over. When I saw the wave coming and I rushed to get books in at 7 weeks (often skipping the pressing that I had planned) I wish I had been told then that it would really be 20 weeks or more. Wish I had the option of not submitting or of paying extra for expedited services. It would have changed my decisions.
The customers coming over from CGC are not going to be the customers that a long-term healthy business can be built on. Almost by definition they are the most impatient, price-resistant, customers who do low volume submissions and didn't buy into the higher tiers of the CGC loyalty program. People who weren't satisfied there and are not likely to find that satisfaction here. I'm sure there are some exceptions but that's who is likely to defect at the announcement of a price increase. And now they've showed up here with their $80 submissions and "where's my book" threads and made things miserable for the long-term loyal CBCS customers. I saw this coming from a mile a way.


Man oh' Man.... Well howdy.
Sorry you are so frustrated over there. It does suck we do not live in a perfect world, but I understand the aggravation.
But you say you received the Al Ewing signed books back in July? I sent in 5 books also, but have not received them back yet. Makes no sense, that they would ship out the signed books to some members, and not to all members, unless some members opted for a press (I did not). Oh well...

On another note, sorry to see you go. You could consider coming for a short vacation over here. The warden of the Comic Book Funny Farm recently did a tour of the facilities (wearing an awesome two tone straight jacket of course) and when he stopped by my padded pad (haha) I asked how the new wing expansion was going and he said they are almost finished with another 100 suites (no few of course).
But the accommodations are excellent. Harley visits everyday and on the weekends, the Joker runs the halls in his underwear. It's a site to see....hahahehehoho......
Post 141 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroman
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
Almost by definition they are the most impatient, price-resistant, customers who do low volume submissions and didn't buy into the higher tiers of the CGC loyalty program.


Well in my case I am a CGC elite member and have been for several years. I've got 9 days left on the current membership and have turned off my auto-renew. I would normally send in a submission every month or two so the 15% (now 10%) discount was compelling. Haven't sent one in since March so pretty much just feel cheated out of my membership fees for the current year. I may send one final one in before my membership expires but I'm not planning on re-joining until these TATs are down to a more reasonable timeframe. Hopefully that will not be too long, and honestly I will happily convert over to CBCS if they can get their act together before CGC. Unfortunately the comments I'm seeing on this thread are not giving me that warm fuzzy...


Kitties are warm and fuzzy...lol...
woops, hey, no.. I don't want to go back to my padded pad.. dang it.... gotta go..
Post 142 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
Every other respected collectible grading company (CGC, Beckett, PSA, SGC, VGA) has restricted their tiers, increased their prices, or both. CBCS is the only one I know of that hasn't done so. Maybe it's time for CBCS to restrict the modern tier. At the very least maybe they should limit the Modern tier to books from 1975 to 2000. This will substantially cut down on all the people trying to flip books they bought for $5 and sell for less than $100 (I'm part of this group and don't mind having to narrow down my submissions) and a lot of other crap that could do without grading (I own far too many of these slabs as well).

If it's a modern book from 2001 or later worth submitting, they can still use the other tiers at the higher cost. The current model isn't working. I also hope CBCS doesn't plan on releasing the magazine sized slabs until the issues with all the other grading tiers are resolved. This would create an even bigger headache.

The current model works just fine. She walks down the runway, turns to the left, turns to the right, and then back up the runway. What else do want from the gal....
Post 143 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
@HeinzDad Nice....
Post 144 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanders
At the very least maybe they should limit the Modern tier to books from 1975 to 2000. This will substantially cut down on all the people trying to flip books they bought for $5 and sell for less than $100 (I'm part of this group and don't mind having to narrow down my submissions).


@flanders I don't think CBCS needs to be in the business of making value judgements, which books are worthy and which are not. Although I have to admit that when I search "CBCS" on Ebay I'm always surprised by how much of the results volume is recent modern books that I had no idea existed. It's always best to set up a system that causes the market to self-select rather than making arbitrary value judgements.

That's right, no hand cuffs on my books...just wish they would take them off me....
Post 145 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supertom
@EbayMafia @flanders A simple way to alleviate this is to stop taking submissions once they hit a certain capacity, say 1,000 book, and set up a que system. Submit your books online like you normally would, and once CBCS is caught up, they send you a notification to ship your books. That way even if it's a 7 month wait, 5 of those months the books will still be in your possession. It benefits everyone involved. We don't have to wait around guessing what stage our books are in and blowup their forum with negativity, and CBCS doesn't have to store, sort through, and insure a mountain of boxes. I'd guess air conditioned warehouse space isn't cheap in Texas.

I also personally think the whole fast track system was a bad idea from the start. All books should be graded in the order they're received. If the problem they're having is throughput then why waste time sorting through who paid a little more. It's costing them time, space, and customer loyalty to sit on all these books rather than just moving through orders in a timely and efficient manner. I'm sure their employees are overworked and frustrated too. It just seems like a frustrating business model for all involved. Imagine if a restaurant took an infinite number of reservations and just told you to show up and wait. Then someone shows up and gets a table in 10 mins. You ask why and they tell you, "Oh they paid an extra $10 for their cheesy fries."

A fantastic fantasy idea you have. Or they could increase their staff like other companies do when the work load increases. I have been self employed over 30 years, when I have more work than I can handle, I hired more workers or turned down the work. My customers would laugh at a 22 + week waiting time.
But I digress, I just keep sending my books in. It gives me more room in my padded pad. hahahehehoho...
Post 146 IP   flag post
Collector Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroman
Whichever company can solve the excessive TAT problem first stands to be the big winner here. Personally I hope it is CBCS as I think it really benefits the comic book industry on the whole to have two big players in the grading space that are roughly the same size as that type of competition will be best for the consumer. I don't know how much bigger CGC is than CBCS but I've been tracking Ebay sales for several years and can see that the volume of CGC graded book sales are quite a bit higher than CBCS sales, currently around 15-1 (but they used to be well over 20-1). There is also currently a price arbitrage opportunity between the two brands as CBCS books sell at a discount to CGC. I think this discount is narrowing, but have not analyzed the sales enough. In any event, I think CBCS is is caught between a rock and a hard place. Raising rates at this point would likely cause a decrease in submissions. Yes, they likely want this, but they also want to continue to grab market share from CGC. I would love to know the effect that CGC price increases had on submissions to CBCS. My guess is that it caused a significant boost to CBCS submissions (and obviously increased the TATs). Unfortunately, if they cannot keep their existing and new clients happy they run the risk of a decreasing client base. But then again, there aren't many options for those looking to submit books elsewhere. This is certainly a fascinating industry-wide train wreck to watch, although I'm sure most of us wished we weren't on the train.

choo-choo....
Post 147 IP   flag post
Collector Petroman private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearmint67
My customers would laugh at a 22 week waiting time.

Agreed, not many businesses would get away with this. And the really scary thing that many don't consider is whether or not these companies are actually insured for the insanely large and valuable backlog of books that are sitting in their warehouses. Based on current prices of graded books and the huge backlogs, each company is sitting on tens or more likely hundreds of millions of $$$ worth of books (mags, cards, etc.) that have been entrusted to them by their clients for grading. If a flood or fire were to wipe out a warehouse I'd guess that the company would never be able to pay out and would likely just file for bankruptcy. To me, this is probably the most compelling reason to *not* submit any more books to either grading company until they can guarantee a timely turn around time. I know I always sweat it a bit when my valuable books are in transit to/from CGC, now there is the added stress of an extra long stay at their facility for grading.

I hope your pad is very well padded indeed as you ponder the risk involved in sending your books into the abyss.
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Collector Petroman private msg quote post Address this user
Does anyone have experience with the 2-Day Modern tier? The website says the turn around time is currently 1 week. Is that at all accurate? I see people posting that it takes 6 weeks for them to even open the boxes they receive, so 1 week TAT doesn't really sound possible unless they know which boxes contain expedited books. I know CGC says to mark the boxes either EX or WT for their two "fastest" tiers, is there something similar for CBCS?
Post 149 IP   flag post
Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC? Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroman
Whichever company can solve the excessive TAT problem first stands to be the big winner here.


@Petroman - My concern/problem with 1st to solve TAT is that cgc has proven in the past to play loose with grading. Before the pandemic, they were outed for “grading” far to many books onsite at cons than the had manpower to grade. We have way too many 9.8 cgc grades that are clearly 9.4 or maybe 9.6 at best already roaming around.

This year cgc has boasted substantial numbers of new hires in the grading department. Obviously most of these are not experienced graders. And just leads to more suspicion as to grade accuracy.

CBCS is obviously hiring, but @sborock has gone on record as to their standards not allowing for a throwing if inexperienced graders at the graders stations and, I for one applaud that. I would rather wait months for an accurately graded comic that get a false high grade in weeks.
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. flanders private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by glow
is this just for Modern/Expanded?


This was for my modern order.
Post 151 IP   flag post
Maybe they just like me better. Nah, that's not it. BPaxson002 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearmint67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supertom
@EbayMafia @flanders A simple way to alleviate this is to stop taking submissions once they hit a certain capacity, say 1,000 book, and set up a que system. Submit your books online like you normally would, and once CBCS is caught up, they send you a notification to ship your books. That way even if it's a 7 month wait, 5 of those months the books will still be in your possession. It benefits everyone involved. We don't have to wait around guessing what stage our books are in and blowup their forum with negativity, and CBCS doesn't have to store, sort through, and insure a mountain of boxes. I'd guess air conditioned warehouse space isn't cheap in Texas.

I also personally think the whole fast track system was a bad idea from the start. All books should be graded in the order they're received. If the problem they're having is throughput then why waste time sorting through who paid a little more. It's costing them time, space, and customer loyalty to sit on all these books rather than just moving through orders in a timely and efficient manner. I'm sure their employees are overworked and frustrated too. It just seems like a frustrating business model for all involved. Imagine if a restaurant took an infinite number of reservations and just told you to show up and wait. Then someone shows up and gets a table in 10 mins. You ask why and they tell you, "Oh they paid an extra $10 for their cheesy fries."

A fantastic fantasy idea you have. Or they could increase their staff like other companies do when the work load increases. I have been self employed over 30 years, when I have more work than I can handle, I hired more workers or turned down the work. My customers would laugh at a 22 + week waiting time.
But I digress, I just keep sending my books in. It gives me more room in my padded pad. hahahehehoho...


Simply doing a warm body hire is not always the best solution. Hiring, even in the best of times, is difficult if you are not hiring the right people, for the right positions and then provide the correct training.

I worked for 15 years in production much like what CBCS/CGC is going through. We had much the same problem with bottle necks of the workflow, until until I did a systemic change on how the mail was sorted. I would love to know how the processing here works, but I suspect that would fall under "trade secrets".
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
Just catching up on this thread today. Somebody done lost they damn mind.
Post 153 IP   flag post
Collector Petroman private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scifinator
This year cgc has boasted substantial numbers of new hires in the grading department. Obviously most of these are not experienced graders. And just leads to more suspicion as to grade accuracy.

Yes, agreed they have a ton of new graders. My limited experience with these new graders is that they are actually giving lower grades, with little to no reason why they give the grade. I'd welcome more feedback on this from others who may have seen disparity between current grades and say a year or two ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scifinator

CBCS is obviously hiring, but @sborock has gone on record as to their standards not allowing for a throwing if inexperienced graders at the graders stations and, I for one applaud that. I would rather wait months for an accurately graded comic that get a false high grade in weeks.

In principle I agree with you, but lets be honest here. We all want our books to get as high a grade as possible. There is a HUGE difference in prices between a modern book that is 9.4, 9.6 or 9.8. Between 9.4 and 9.8 the price difference can easily be a factor of 10. For anyone looking to monetize their collections or even do the short term buy/hold/sell the higher the grade the better. I'm not saying this is right, but I also admit I've been hugely frustrated getting a 9.6 back on a book that has zero visible defects and gets no grader notes back. Sheesh, did they find a wrinkle on an interior page or something? Who cares? When you look at a comic book vs. a baseball card, stamp, coin etc. there are just so many points of potential flaw that the entire grading process seems far more subjective to me.
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC? Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petroman
but I also admit I've been hugely frustrated getting a 9.6 back on a book that has zero visible defects and gets no grader notes back. Sheesh, did they find a wrinkle on an interior page or something?
@Petroman - That is a benefit of CBCS offering free graders notes on all submissions. Besides my comfort in knowing that the grade is more likely to be accurate than one from cgc, if I am buying a graded book to fill a hole or upgrade, I will typically buy a CBCS as I can view the notes, for FREE, of why it’s a 9.6 or below.
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