Marvel = Go Woke Go Broke15572
 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xvipah While I accepted the fact long ago that there will be changes to the comics I grew up with in transition to the films, my mistake is that I don't consider the modern storylines being behind them in some way. The Nick Fury Jr. being a good example. For clarification- Was the Jackson-ized Fury in comics explained as being Nick Jr. from the start, or was there a gap that would have made people think as I did? |
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| Post 101 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Scifinator Knee-jerk reaction these days is that you cannot criticize anything dealing with “certain” topics… even if done in an unbiased, reasonable way that doesn’t imply even an iota of bigotry. My wife and I love the new Doom Patrol and have no issues with any of the “updating” and tweaks to source material. It all fits in a very natural way. We also loved the “new” BSG and have the same sentiment you reflect above. <key edit - loved most of BSG until the final season or so… when it started falling apart a bit…> But when you watch a show or movie and can predict who will win every fist fight based on gender/race (for otherwise “equals”) and can predict who will be smarter (or the smartest) and who will be the butt of jokes based on those same lines, it gets old, fast. It is superficial rather than conscientious and honestly is offensive and counterproductive to promoting real progress and real unity. Race and gender in modern media should generally reflect society - and then it should end there. No false narratives of reverse superiority, no forcing of change for the sake of that diversity alone to the exclusion of prior depictions. Like everything else it becomes mindless, corporate and populist drivel when done poorly or forced - and MCU is increasingly heading down (nah, has gone down) that path. I want my (biracial) daughter and son to enjoy a balanced, inclusive world. The approach being taken by some is not helping create that world but instead pushing for more division… Just my opinion. An opinion that some in today’s world would (ironically) automatically dismiss solely because of my race and gender… all in the name of inclusiveness. |
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| Post 102 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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ticktocktyler private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by esaravo Seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it? As long as it didn't get too "Spawn", you know? Both Deadman and Spawn were sort of self pitying after they were dead. Maybe they could have a little of that with Brand but not so over-the-top. Kind of a new millennium "The Fugitive". Or the Spectre! He was bad ass when Aparo did him in Adventure Comics. Can anyone imagine giving The Spectre the film noir treatment? I can. Maybe they are afraid to go too far out on a limb. ("No one knows who those characters are!"  Well, make people aware of them. I wonder if the lack of imagination and weak writing is due to the fantastic illiteracy we see pervading US culture and it's even affected professional writers. Heck, I write as an amateur. I'll punch up a script and turn it in. At least I am familiar with the characters an have a fondness for them. |
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| Post 103 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Siggy Siggy, it was originally two separate but unrelated universes. So “Sam” Fury was the only Nick Fury and did not have the WW 2 history the 616 Fury did. During one of the many Marvel events, they combined the universes and had both Nick Furies (or is it Nicks Fury?) Then a little later due to the Sam Fury popularity in the movies and such they found a way to work him into the 616 universe. I’m about 75 percent sure the original is retired and the new one is just his son. That may have changed since I last read it, though. |
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| Post 104 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Entertainment with no agenda for me might be creating a new version of the female furies, as ruthless, murderous, psychotic killers, that puruse Darkseid's victims similar to intergalactic bounty hunters, and inevitably kill everyone they are sent after. A murderous, highly skilled, all female team of assasins each with their own weaponry style and powers. You could then have them cross over against elements like Lobo, Suicide Squad, Deathstroke, etc. Who needs a crisis if you can quietly kill of everyone you want week to week? | ||
| Post 105 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafiaIf you like.....sure. I will say his comment was not stated as an opinion nor was it ambigous..make of that what you like. Its sort of what I hate about people trying to decide what and how others should enjoy things...I may not sample nor process as others do and like different things. Using labels like "woke" because some people choose a different viewing experience is ultimately demeaning...let those who want to watch this or that do so, and for those that it does not appeal, they can try something else. |
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| Post 106 • IP flag post | ||
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jabberwookie Yikes! Spoiler alert! |
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| Post 107 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Galen130 Excellent foresight. |
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| Post 108 • IP flag post | ||
 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkseid_of_town - "who are you to decide" Stop it, don't devolve this from discourse to discord. In no way, shape, or form are my comments authoritative nor made on behalf of others or all for that matter. "For you they might need to be entertainment driven but others not so much...hence the moving goalpost" Didn't get that reference at all from your original goalpost comment. I obviously read it that you were suggesting that I changed the meaning of my original posts. "And yes i agree, you are not moving the goal post, society is." Pursuant to my above comment immediately preceding this,...well, I will refrain from commenting. |
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| Post 109 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town And people should not feel like they are walking on eggshells all the time or feel the need to conform all labels to avoid hurting the feelings of others. Restricting how others express - beyond the narrowest boundaries - starts crossing into fascism. There is a lot of hypocrisy in some recent cultural shifts. Setting boundaries on how others can or should speak, and censuring when non conforming. Yet espousing virtues of free expression. Lots of hypocrisy on all sides btw, lest this devolve into something political. |
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| Post 110 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector*
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town What entertaining is that the guy who created it, wrote it, and directed it teams with a giant corporation to make more money off it by turning it into a theme park attraction. |
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| Post 111 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Excellent, so when you explain or expand on a view its "solidifying your view and when I do so its "" Stop it, don't devolve this from discourse to discord." well, I will refrain from commenting. |
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| Post 112 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia I don't think I said anything about not having the discussion or even being surprised about it. It's already been pointed out that we literally had this discussion in another thread last week. My point as to the lack of culture being shown by the existence of the thread is the explicit and implicit bigotry fundamental to it. Most of these changes happened in the comics years, if not decades, ago, and yet there's a strong contingent that acts as if the characters are immutable elements of nature. There has to be at least 10 characters who have been Captain America, both black and white, but man are some folks unhappy with Sam Wilson having the name. If you go the other way and create a new character that isn't a straight white man, it's "woke". The article in the first post for the thread equates men being goofy with men being bad (check the She-Hulk entry). None of the movies have come out so no one knows what the content will be, but simply having women or minorities as leading characters is "woke". A few months ago we had a thread about how a new character was "woke" because of her haircut. The discussion is inane. But here we are having it! |
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| Post 113 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Labels...it always starts with labels. Woke is simply a way of placing everything someone else doesnt like in a big box and tacking a sticky label at one end. | ||
| Post 114 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector*
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk Have you read some of the comments in the Seriously? WTF Marvel? thread? |
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| Post 115 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
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| Post 116 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @xkonk this kind of the key here. There’s a lot of overreaction due to fear of change and everything that changes is viewed as something being taken from someone. It reminds me of all the whining about Captain Marvel. I can’t tell you how many people told me this was the greatest travesty ever to change him from a man to woman. Part of the issue is some the extremist sites went out of their way to create outrage by claiming Marvels Carol Danvers had usurped Shazam. Remember what I said about Merced’s not having “Shit Happens” bumper stickers? Those guys get really rich by stoking outrage when reasonable explanations exist. These guys exploit that fear, cause division and laugh all the way to the bank. My suggestion is when artist draws a female form rather than male or the colorist uses a darker shade on your favorite hero is to read it. Check it out. Keep an open mind and realize that somewhere some kid is becoming a fan of this new character, just like you did. At the end of the day, these are fictional characters. The greatest crime is people profiting off exploiting them and wrecking our society for a few bucks. |
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| Post 117 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Darkseid_of_town Yet it is fine to denounce the mere discussion of anything as “bigotry” or lacking culture, or any of a number of false attributions thrown around. Woke was not really an externally applied label. How one interprets it is based on perspective. In other words, it is both self applied and derogatory, and can even be neutral or descriptive. That doesn’t make it off limits, or at least shouldn’t. The more we shut down discourse or focus on the labels rather than the actual dialogue, the worse things will get. |
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| Post 118 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DavethebraveYour first statement was never made, nor implied....so you are erecting a straw man. Woke is an externally applied label...it was done so for this thread for instance. How one interprets it CAN be based on perspective, but is not always, for instance when used as it was for this thread. It CAN be self applied , or externally. It CAN be neutral and descriptive, but often is not. Noone said it was "off limits" , another straw man. Stop doing that with me, it wont get you far. We absoloutely should focus on the labels when they are part of a package used to limit, and label anyone with a differing view. ...the worse things will get? So let hate take its course? It appears it already is and has for some |
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| Post 119 • IP flag post | ||
 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| don't really care what they do to the old characters...the old stories are still there and really who is reading modern spandex anyway. Also...really....many of the old stories are better and cheaper to buy..will gladly spend $10 to $20 per book for Spidey death of Jean De Wolf story than any $$ on some crazy ratio variant currently reading Ascender/Descender Serial Alien Oblivion Song Out of Body Fight Girls!! Stillwater Nice House on the Lake Immoral Hulk - a non traditional spandex...we'll see if I continue reading after the current creative team leaves....hmmmm.....Immoral..was that a typo??? |
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| Post 120 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I believe Immortal hulk ends or ended with issue 50 anyways | ||
| Post 121 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics Reading couple of those on my side as well. Oblivion Song and Descender… good choices |
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| Post 122 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In any event, hopefully in a likeminded community like this one (comic books) we can freely discuss and debate in a civil manner. This includes keeping it as apolitical as possible and also avoiding lumping people into categories themselves. This is where I will agree that labels can become dangerous (both directions) as it creates too much of an “us vs them” mentality. The same reason I think some of the recent approaches to “exclusive inclusivity” has been overall damaging both to creating good stories AND positive societal goals. |
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| Post 123 • IP flag post | ||
 How do I know this? Because I've done it myself.
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lawguy1977 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Totally agree about a healthy discourse on here, and people definitely are entitled to express their own opinions. However, personally, I feel there is a balance. Not saying this applies to anyone here whatsoever, but think of folks back in the 50s and 60s saying that their "opinions/beliefs" about segregation was just part of a healthy discourse and that everyone should just "agree to disagree." When someone's opinion starts affecting the liberties of others, THAT'S when fascism starts. Like I said, I'm not saying any of that is happening in this thread, but it might be easy for some folks to misinterpret what is being posted on a forum. Also, I totally agree that character and story comes first. I don't care about any agenda or message. If it's not done within a competent, well done story, than it's going to fail. And I think there's plenty of examples of that in Hollywood we can all point out. Finally, the only question I have is what was the agenda behind Captain Marvel? I only saw it once. Thought it was fine, didn't hate it, didn't think it was the best of the MCU movies. Really the only things that stick out in my memory was her crashing into a Blockbuster and the cat eating people, which I thought was hilarious. I just don't recall any sort of agenda or message, so I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on that. |
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| Post 124 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk I think there's a fairness to your perspective, some people are resistant to change from the status quo that has suited them for so long. But I think there's an extended view that @DavetheBrave gets to in his post. It's when the changes are so often and so consistent that they become predictable. The resistance to this level of frequent and predictable change should not be lumped together with general resistance to any change. |
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| Post 125 • IP flag post | ||
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @lawguy1977 - if you are asking me, my issue as mentioned was that the movie was poorly written and didn't develop the character. Just seemed rushed to girl power mode. Kinda felt the same about Captain Marvel as I did Batman/Superman & Justice League movies...each felt like they should have been 2-3 movie releases to properly develop. |
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| Post 127 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think public discussions like this about societal change has a positive effect overall. I think that hearing peoples perspective helps to modify, or shave the rough edges off of unrefined initial positions. I believe it can have a moderating effect and introduce people to perspectives they hadn't considered before. I think when people just stay in their own heads or find an echo chamber...that's when positions get more extreme and more solidified. | ||
| Post 128 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| They signed Brie Larson to a 5 or 7 movie deal if I remember right, seems like they would have plenty of time to delve into the character and her motivations as they move forward...not sure why they would have to tell you everything the first movie out the gate, especially if they branch off and do the Rogue thing with her, or perhaps tell how she becomes Binary. | ||
| Post 129 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafiaSolid take here...once you get that open forum and ability to discuss the next step is to remove the hate speech and labels....cause if you cannot grow past that point, you will never resolve anything |
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| Post 130 • IP flag post | ||
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