Signature Fraud?15502
 Collector
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xvipah private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If CBCS/Beckett verifies 1000 sigs a year (no idea, just a number). And now we know 1 was fake. I'll take those odds every time. Even if we increase it 5 or even 10-fold, I'll still take those odds. Humans are imperfect animals. | ||
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 Collector
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Supermole private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My question was not abouting disputing signature authentication. It is about this guy flaunting that HE did it and video taped himself doing it. | ||
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson not to mention Dynamic Forces |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Scorpion private msg quote post Address this user | |
| after watching this, makes me wounder how many sings verifiers book are out there, that are fake signature by CBCS. | ||
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Scorpion Not as many as by the dishonest cgc "witnesses." However, I still like all of the ones in my collection. |
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Collector
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manouro private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I bought my first signed comic book by Jim Lee the other day and I'm not sure if it's his real signature anyway it wasn't a big investment but what I'm sure now I won't buy any comics already signed because at the end of the day this comic that I bought it's nice but I don't have a real connection to it. I have 2 comics signed by Stan lee in front of me and meeting him was amazing. Rip Mr Lee. I met also Frank Miller so nice this is amazing memories. I know it's not easy to meet them especially when you are outside US but I do prefer to meet them in person. I hope I will meet Jim Lee in person one day and Todd McFarlane also. |
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 " . "
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by manouro Now imagine all those folks out there that had Stan sign books before it was a pure money machine (when Marvel was bankrupt / going bankrupt) and all those signed books that were passed from parents to kids. Now imagine they are all considered illegitimate by the new crowd because “gasp!” there is some small chance they are fake. Or truly amazing signatures like Kirby or Ditko that were signed in those earlier eras… All because some third or fourth tier signature may have slipped through the cracks on a low-priced book that only a fool would risk jail time to forge… |
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Now let’s see if I can find some cheap Kirby sigs verified by CBCS in ebay… Hmm, so far just found one that references the sig but was found to be unverifiable by BAS… ugh… will keep up the search, I guess… Shocked because there should be tons of verified Kirby sigs given a) tons and tons and tons of incentive (given it is actually rare and highly sought after) and b) literally many decades of practice! Wow… sooo confused… LOL |
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 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Scorpion Yoleventyfive...plus or minus. |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia I heard it was closer to eleventeen. |
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| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave Studying Kirbys signing habbits would likely give you some insight, he was known to use as many as four ghost signers. I have read before that at conventions Jack and roz would have fans leave books a the table to be signed and when a quiet moment was there, Roz would slip away to the hotel room, sign all the books and return them to the table.....In his later years, it is well known that most of what Kirby supposedly signed was done by Roz, including the entire batch of Dynamic forces books supposedly sold and guaranteed as his signature. ........I myself have at least two samples of books roz signed his name to, and another signed by the king himself....    the first two examples were run through BAS quick check and failed to verify...meaning they are likely done by Roz..... The actual signature, on the Hulk 1, was quick verified as good through BAS......but this is why you wont be able to use kirby as much of an analogy..... just too many underlying factors that tend to make things complicated sad to say even the Roz signatures were expensive and cost me quite a pile, cause despite the fact they were not verified many people bid and drove them up.... if you do find any cheap verified Kirby signatures please let us all know...we are anxiously awaiting your call!  |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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sckao private msg quote post Address this user | |
A friend of mine had this signed in the 1970s/80s by Jack Kirby so we'll see if it passes. (I'm slabbing some books for him as a gift.) If you look at the k on the Jack and the y on the Kirby, you can actually see how Roz signed it differently from Jack. |
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Since his name was jacob Kurtzberg, to me it seems like he gave the letters that abbreviated both names the most love since they were his real initials | ||
| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Live right now...discussing that video. |
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| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC watched it for a few minutes. It would be more alarming if a signature that added significant value to an already higher dollar book was forged. He forged a signature on a dollar bin book that isn't even worth the price of the VSP plus the grading cost. I think that's why it likely passed, no one at Beckett would think anyone would forge that signature on that book. The main thing I've taken from this, is if you want to forge signatures of creators that add less value to a book than the cost to a submitter, there's an opportunity there. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @flanders IMO the forger didn't plant any flags anywhere...forgeries have been happening forever. I still trust CBCSs VSP program completely. I wonder if that guy will face any repercussions from CBCS. |
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @GAC I definitely trust the program, but I've always been skeptical of slabs where the signature is worth substantially more than the book being graded, even on CGC slabs. I don't understand why anyone paid this much for these: clickable text clickable text |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @flanders Agreed! That does seem crazy but there are alot of people out there with more money than brains. Those two listings do seem extreme though. I'd love to know these buyers thought process. | ||
| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Dawnstar private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Supermole How else was he supposed to do it? Write an essay? He was already getting dismissed as a fraud in the og reddit thread before the youtube link was provided. IMO, while I find the video interesting and even a little humorous, I don't think it'll really damage the VSP reputation nor do I want it to. Now if the vid was of a silver age sig, then I'd be worried. |
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 Collector
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Belarak private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Dawnstar |
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I fall back on human nature. It's widely accepted that something like 10 to 20% of all museum pieces are fakes - that's entire paintings or artifacts - not just an easily forged signature. if there is the chance for a monetary pay off then people will try and go after that money! Anyone here heard of autopens?? This guy practiced and practiced freehand - which is one way - there are other ways - trace the signature over and over rather than freehand until you have it perfected or go with technology (autopens) There are ways to detect autopen signatures...but...you can change up the template i.e. get yourself 10 or 20 examples of real signatures - then use the autopen to change up the signature so you don't send in a bunch of identical ones - just saying - in the end if $$ is involved someone will try to game the system - on the other end there is a human or human programmed machine trying to verify - things will get through. the CBCS program is basically just saying that on the probabilities the signature they are seeing is likely real - about as good a statement you can get |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KatKomics great points..all of them! I never once considered CBCSs VSP to be a 100% a guarantee... never...but I believe their accuracy is good enough for me. | ||
| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders I would certainly hope anyone advertising signature verification is actually verifying signatures and not just passing them based on "why would anyone forge that?!?" I am sure BAS is not doing that. As for the video, it sure is a black-eye on CBCS but it will fade. I'm sure these instances are a very small percentage of the thousands of books that come through the verification service. |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If the cgc can survive grading hundreds of micro trimmed books as unrestored, then I'm sure CBCS can weather a signature verification issue that can't really be substantiated. I mean would you really take the word of someone whose main objective is undetectable signature fraud? | ||
| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros I don't see it as a black eye - it was bound to happen -probably has happened a bunch -this is just the first guy to post a video. I know if I had a forgery pass I wouldn't tell anyone - I would sell it for top $$!!!! This happens all the time in the art/antiquities world no surprise in the collectibles world either. VSP isn't meant to be 100% infallible - just statement on the likely hood that the signature is real - anything and everything can be faked. this was from 2012 - imagine how much better the teck is now!! |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Egg schmegg. We had fake sheep back in the 90s. | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson Dolly? She was real!!!! lol!! |
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 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson and @GAC - Clones make for some good storylines. | ||
| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| They cloned upwards of thirteen sheep. Talk about fraud. Holy sheep shit, Batman. | ||
| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by esaravo They do!!! Marvels been hearing that horse for awhile now! lol! |
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