Batman: Robin coming out as bisexual was 'missing piece' of story15456
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jesseaweiss Not sure what your point is as obesity and the mental and physical heath issues associated within US society should be reflected in the medium. The idea is to provide a true reflection of our society and is inclusive, right? Story arcs that are well written should cover topics like the risks of developing type 2 diabetes, the risks of high blood pressure, heart disease, and depression being increased for those that are obese could be done. Story arcs about the struggle of loosing weight and eating right could be shown. How about showing heroes eating healthy snacks like carrots and other vegetables? How about showing training, and exercise that heroes continual have to put themselves through to fight crime? All of that is reflective and inclusive of the struggles of attempting to live a healthy lifestyle. Quote: Originally Posted by jesseaweiss Great, then if your number is correct 10% of super heroes should look like the drawing. What is left should be reflected in body types of obese people to make up a total of 42%. BTW, studies have found that NFL players live shorter lifespans than people within general society. Part of the reason for that shorter lifespan is cardiovascular disease. The study published in 2019 found that NFL players had a heart disease death rate that was 2.4 times higher than MLB players. |
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jesseaweiss In high school, I was 185 lbs with <10% body fat. A few years ago, at 210 lbs, my doctor said that I was/am "obese". That's when I learned that it doesn't necessarily mean anything. I'm not as slim as I want to be, but I'm getting there. At 224 lbs right now, I don't look like what some imagine to be "obese". |
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| Post 77 • IP flag post | ||
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jesseaweiss private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus This is my point. The idea that 42% of the country is severely obese is misleading. I'm fairly stocky now that I'm up to like 260, but even at this size "obese" is a stretch. Meanwhile, for me not to be obese I need to be 190 lbs, which is what I weighed when I had 10% body fat. |
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| Post 78 • IP flag post | ||
 would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater Because publishers know no one buys comic books to read what superheroes are eating. Maybe some day they'll realize no one buys comic books to see who they voted for or who they want to have sex with. |
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| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
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jesseaweiss private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Towmater You're constantly throwing out straw man arguments. I never said that comics should reflect the exact percentage of people of all types in all aspects of society. I believe I used the term "more accurately" reflecting, so yes there should be more variety in body type and size, race, gender, sexuality, etc.. but nobody ever claimed it should align exactly. You seem to be making the rather strange argument that unless they have the exact % of every different aspect of humanity, they shouldn't bother trying to be more reflective of society. The NFL study is interesting but there's no indication it's due to being overweight as contrasted with the physical strain on the body of playing professional football, or being that muscular, or steroid use, etc... There was no claim as to why NFL players are more likely to have cardiac disease. To be honest, I'm not really sure how a discussion of comics including stories about a healthy lifestyle and weight issues is really analogous to including characters of varying sexuality (which has been around for at least 30+ years in comics), but I'm completely down with them having them. IMO comic stories have only gotten better by having more the heroes be more "human" compared to the earlier years. I don't think comics, and certainly not super hero movies, would have sustained popularity with more one dimensional characters. IMO it's why Daredevil has remained one of the best written comics for decades running even with different writers over time. |
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| Post 80 • IP flag post | ||
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etapi65 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've always thought Superman should be fat...or at least have no muscle tone. What could he be lifting that would actually allow him to maintain his physique? or is he doing hundreds of thousands of reps? The flash should look "exercise anorexic" (Anorexia athletica); think dawnbreaker depictions. Batman should be cut. Marvel characters (particularly mutants) are mostly powered due to genetics related causes and a case could be made for those physiques regardless of workout regimes. Exploring old characters in new ways is overall healthy for comics. We're talking about characters that are (in some cases) over 80 years old. Even the youngest of many of the mainstream characters date to the early 90s and are closing in on 30 years (Miles Morales excluded, but he's just a re-imagined spider-man). You (collective you...not pointed at anyone) really just want to read the same stories with the same bland or static characters for 30 years? |
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by etapi65 In the comics, Superman was shown to do exercises in some stories (All-Star Superman, even). I simply imagine that he receives so much energy from the sun that he's toning by just being outside. The physical depiction of most characters is quite absurd. Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Thor, etc are some of the very few who I think deserve the super-cut appearance. |
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| Post 82 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by jesseaweiss I don’t think I’m making any type of straw man argument. If comics are to be inclusive and reflective of society then obese and grossly obese superheroes should be reflected within them. I’ve even provided story arcs that could be addressed. I did forget to write that it would be good to see Batman advise another hero about the empty calories in soda and the health effects drinking or eating to many sweets can have on a person. You seem to have more of an issue with how the NIH defines what obese is in US society and the change in that definition that occurred. You failed to mention that the change was brought about by studies that linked excess weight to some of the health issues I have highlighted and could be story arcs within comics. I’m not sure why you did that. Lastly, you seem caught up in the numbers relating to the percentage of people within society that are defined as this or that in relation to their BMI. I’d ask why that is an issue to you? The only explanation I can come up with is that 42% is a pretty big swath of society that isn’t being shown in comics as heroes and you have an issue about them being shown that way for some reason or another. I guess you don’t want your comic characters to change as our society has changed over the last 20 or 30 years and be reflective of it. Strange, as you want comics to be more "human". Reflecting the challenges associated with obesity in comics would reflect what almost 1/2 (according to the NIH and CDC) of the US population deals with daily. |
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| Post 83 • IP flag post | ||
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| My two cents... Comic book characters are vessels for whatever a creator would like to do with them. This is the reason that their presence transcends a single medium. WE, the fans, decide what we would like to focus on, and what in our heads, we would like to block out (Batman v. Superman, for me). At the end of the day, we like to think that we fall in love with characters, while in reality all that we grow attached to are interpretations of them. Maybe a bunch of writers have written that character as you had hoped, and that is the character that you perceive– and perhaps others have done a terrible job, introducing developments and changes that you would prefer to ignore. Not to be redundant, but at the end of the day what matters is a good story. As for the bad ones, why be angry about its existence when we, the readers have the power to determine where to shift our focus in this evolving world rife with more comic book-related content than ever. |
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| Post 84 • IP flag post | ||
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Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not going to comment beyond saying we are missing in most media the most incorrectly represented population… unintelligent people. What percentage of comic book primary characters are of average or below average intelligence? Even when partially represented (Hulk when not BB) they are usually if not always offset by the alter ego having genius level+ intellect. When half the population is below median intelligence and when 95%+ of comic characters are -at minimum- above median intelligence, it seems horribly underrepresented. |
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dfoster43 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Sigur_Ros Thank you! |
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| Post 86 • IP flag post | ||
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OGJackster private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Just sayin'...It's out there. Some people just love to pick apart the thoughts of others just for the sake of arguing. "a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception."         |
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| Post 87 • IP flag post | ||
 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
The problem seems to be that the old school "superhero saves the day" storylines are competing with the popular modern day themes of fantasy, sci-fi, horror and more modern day relevant stories. The old school pundits insist that things never change and everything needs to be canon. To them, only the superhero themed comics are even considered. But looking at the top ten most popular current comic book series should help illustrate my point. The current comic book market is not all about comic book heroes anymore. And some of you that complain about story writing, might like to check out some of these titles.   Tldr - superhero comics are trying to be more relevant in today's society. |
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| Post 88 • IP flag post | ||
 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Or superhero books have become so convoluted and shitty that no one wants to invest the time into trying to follow or figure them out any more. | ||
| Post 89 • IP flag post | ||
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Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Just for the heck of it, check out the stories in the first classical superhero themed title. These are from MCS, who really do have the best online store imo.      Also, politics and sex still sells comics books. |
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| Post 90 • IP flag post | ||
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would be nice to have a snugger fit.
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Sigur_Ros private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O And in a lot of cases, it unsells comic books. |
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| Post 91 • IP flag post | ||
 Looking for love in all the wrong places.
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robo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thou protest too much. We all sound like we're in denial, that we're all - old, fat, and gay. Were we always like this? I few can sell it as being a 'bear.' Alas most of us aren't that hairy - 'nuff said. | ||
| Post 92 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| IMO superheroing is/has always been a super physical endeavor. There are so few obese superheroes (except the Blob and a couple others I'm sure) for the same reason there are no (or very very few) obese pro soccer players. | ||
| Post 93 • IP flag post | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm waiting for the comic panel that depicts Wonder Girl and Wonder Woman sharing a double headed dong while Steve Trevor looks on, fully clothed and seated, with lust in his eyes. I mean sex sells, right? For me, that really would be a missing part of the story. | ||
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dfoster43 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson  Ahem. Well, Harvey Kurtzman and Bill Elder, two venerable legends in the above-ground comic industry DID put out "Little Annie Fanny" ... so ... stuff happens. |
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O "The Nice House on the Lake" might be the worst title I've ever seen. LOL. |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Jesse_O Thanks for providing reinforcement to what I've been posting about. Comics can and have taken on many subjects. As I've thought about and written about obesity in this thread I'm surprised that creators haven't taken on that challenge. The last time that I saw a superhero who was out of shape in popular culture was in was in Spider-man Into the Multiverse. When Peter B Parker shows up Miles and Olivia Octavious negatively comment about how they first see him in his costume. Not really a good look noting what gets revealed about Peter's life in his dimension and the depression he is battling. It gets brushed aside in the movie. I don't think anyone gave much thought to those scenes. Sometimes the stories run as short period of time due to lack of interest and sometimes they carry on for extended periods of time. Books like the Walking Dead and the X-Men have taken on arcs about humanity and subsets within the human race. They have challenged readers. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. No one is forced to read this book or that book. |
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| Post 97 • IP flag post | ||
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater you're welcome. I think that your point about comics taking on many topics and my point of superhero comics trying to be more relevant in today's society are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I think the points reinforce each other. Superhero comics are trying to become more relevant by taking on more topics like sexual orientation. I don't agree that superhero comics need to be totally reflective of society, we are dealing with fictional stories here. There are over a half million homeless people in America. And while featuring a homeless person, like in United States of Captain America #1, is a good thing to do, the issue of homelessness was not directly addressed (that I can recall anyway). And if obese characters are what you are into, I suggest reading Spawn. There is Violator (the Clown) and Detective Sam. There are probably more, but those are two off the top of my head. |
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| Post 98 • IP flag post | ||
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Valiant has an obese superhero.  |
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| Post 99 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O The characters that come to mind for me that are overweight/obese seem to be bad guys. Ever notice that? Kingpin, Violator, the Blob, Penguin, and Doc Octopus to name a few. Those are big names that are all main characters in their selective universes and they are all villains. I can't say that I'm "into" obese characters. I'm using the obesity as an excellent example of a topic that I think creators should do stories on, develop characters around, and address by the industry. While some might scoff at the notion of Batman eating carrots as a snack in panels of comics or call it "trolling" (laughable and noting the parties involved with that view and past interactions - it would be par for the course). I would simply point out that consumer product companies pay a lot of money to have their product placed in scenes in movies. For them to do that, and continue to do that, they are seeing a return on their investment. If they weren't it wouldn't be taking place. So, positively reinforcing the ideas of healthy eating and a healthy lifestyle might be a wise choice for creators to make if they tackled the subject matter. The challenges and costs to our society is going to be monstrous in next the several decades. It is a subject that truly effects or will effect everyone in the US. While it currently isn't a front burner topic for many - tough choices will have to be made surrounding obesity in the future. |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater all very good points. I'm sure obesity will one day be a topic covered by comics. In my opinion, comics are more "art imitating life" oriented. When obesity becomes the new hot topic, that is when comics will address it. And by "comics", I'm talking DC, Marvel and Image. There are so many indie publishers now that it's near impossible to know what topics they all are covering. | ||
| Post 101 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O @Jesse_O Just fyi, I think that list is not based on sales popularity. Looks like it is ranked based on a small number of reviews. Not to undermine the point, but I would be shocked if some of those titles have replaced X-men. |
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia That's a fair point. What I posted was more like Yelp reviews of a restaurant. So, here is data on the top 50 comics, by units sold, in 100 shops for May, 2021. I think it still serves the point to show that genres other than superhero stories have some serious competition right now.   |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Davethebrave But people with below average IQ's don't typically play major roles in society (although some say different). So maybe they could be the sidekicks. Sub-mariner could have a sidekick named Sub-100. |
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Which they need, because talent has been spread thin for years, and DC and Marvel in particular need to consolidate titles/talent and cut the fat. Been saying this for years. |
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