A dilemma. What to do?15441
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comixcited private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CBCS, with one recent exception, has been great to me over the last year. I was in the habit of sending monthly orders and was always pleased with the results. had one or two minor problems with orders that were always dealt with effectively. Unfortunately I had a larger issue come up and dealing with it has been.... less than effective. Some here have already seen an earlier thread that my friend (5 comix from the problem order were his) posted a few months back explaining the situation. To make a long story short(ish), 13 comix were damaged, most likely in shipping. All would have been obvious upon opening the box. These comix were then passed down the line, graded, encapsulated, and sent back to me. I had been under the impression that damage of this nature would be reported to me upon receipt at CBCS so that I could attempt to file a claim with USPS. No contact was made. 4+ months later after many messages sent, and very little word back, I finally got a brush off message that boiled down to: "sorry it took so long. we were investigating. if your comics were damaged it was not with us. it was the post office." No mention of how to move forward. Am I wrong in assuming there would be some sort of standard procedure for compensation under these circumstances? I would very much like to keep sending out orders every month but since this happened I have just been waiting to see how it pans out. It is not panning out well... My dilemma now is: a) Should I continue to message/harass and just hope I get a result? b) Should I just let it go and stop using CBCS and be happy with my raws? |
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 COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I cannot find anywhere in writing saying CBCS will report damage in shipping before proceeding. If they were doing that before I wouldn’t be surprised if that was suspended when they became slammed with orders. That said, they have in their terms saying that if the book was damaged in their possession then they would provide compensation. As they have concluded that the books were damaged in shipping to them and not by them, they do not feel an obligation to provide compensation. So back to your questions, if you were to get some sort of compensation it will be after some teeth-pulling. Whether you should continue submitting books, I would consider the fact that you may not be contacted if the books are received damaged and the terms only provide compensation if the books are damaged in their care when weighing your decision |
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 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It seems to me that your problem lies with whomever you used to ship the books. They would be the source of the damage. If the box shows no outward signs of damage, then how would CBCS know that the books weren't sent that way? Perhaps what CBCS needs to do is add a box to their submission form that one can check that reads," Do not encapsulate if damaged in transit." It could possibly even help with turnaround times. |
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| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I would keep pursuing it and even contact your credit card company to explain the situation to see if there is any advice or coverage they can provide (if paid by cc). If this happened to me, I would stop using CBCS since it doesn't appear they have been able to provide any evidence that the package was damaged by the postal carrier. Quote: Originally Posted by comixcited CBCS determined that the post office damaged your package without providing any evidence that the package was damaged prior to receiving it? They also didn't inform you that your comics were damaged and proceeded to charge you for slabbing them. There doesn't seem to be much if any evidence in CBCS's favor. I haven't read the terms of agreement, but I would think the insurance you selected on your submission form would apply. It's there for a reason, right? |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The insurance is if the books are damaged while in the possession of CBCS and not if the damage occurs en route to CBCS. | ||
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COLLECTOR
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dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders That is an incorrect assumption: Quote: Originally Posted by CBCS Terms & Conditions |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @comixcited Just a question of curiosity. I don't care who you use to grade your books or if you even submit books to be graded. If you stop using CBCS, then I would assume you would start using the cgc. What are you going to do when one of your shipments to the cgc gets damaged in shipping and they fail to call you? | ||
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 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson@DrWatson - They kinda do have that box. That being the Grade Screen (which may generate no additional charges), or even the Press Screen which will generate additional charges. Additionally to all, comics may indeed be damaged in transit while the box may show little, if any, outward signs of damage or rough handling. |
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| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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bennyb86 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders I will add my two cents just on this as without giving too much away this is actually what my job at a bank is. Best advice in these situations is to dispute with a CC as a absolute last resort as if the dispute is decided in the merchants favor they have zero inventive to continue to even entertain a resolution or continue business. Just again adding my two cents from my background. |
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Scifinator This is true. |
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Collector
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comixcited private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson I do not think I would go anywhere else. CGC not for me and other companies have not caught up yet. @dielinfinite I was assuming I would get contacted because I have read accounts of this happening on the forum. it makes sense, otherwise why even bother buying shipping insurance? @Scifinator Grade screening is great but not always sure fire for catching damage. for example, one of the comics I sent was AVENGERS #43 its a mid grade so it can be tough to pin down an exact grade. had I grade screened I would have put it at 6.5 and hoped for better. when all was said and done it was graded 6.5 WITH the damage. had I grade screened I would have still gotten a surprise (just not the nice 7.0-7.5 surprise I might have gotten WITHOUT damage) |
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @comixcited - sent you a PM | ||
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 Collector
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comixfan59 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Half the books from this instance were mine and I can tell you it is not that simple. Please look at the photos of the damage that our books did not have prior to CBCS and explain to me how no one would notice this and not report it so the client could be notified. The damage is all in the same areas and the same impact which they noted on all the books grading notes with the word as impacted. Not only that but the damage to the Box they were delivered in would be as obvious as Mjolnir striking them along the side of their head.                   |
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| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Is Dracula or Werewolf by Night worthy of lifting Mjolnir?  |
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Collector
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comixcited private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 no... but perhaps someone from the Sandman verse? | ||
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Collector
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comixfan59 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 Bwa! Haw! Haw! You’re funny. Don’t quit your job at the Quickie Mart. |
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 I had no way of knowing that 9.8 graded copies signed by Adam Hughes weren't what you were looking for.
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drchaos private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I usually drop my books off at shows. The carrier has no opportunity to damage them if I am making delivery in person. Call me paranoid but this has always been a strong preference for me. |
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 I showed my wife and she was so happy for me she started to cry.
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Batman66 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @drchaos always the preferred method but the cons have been scarce these days | ||
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If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Double boxing and a press have always alleviated the majority of my problems. | ||
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Collector
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comixcited private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @DrWatson I normally pack well and without issue but if I submit again ill try to do even better. one of the comix got pressed as part of the submission. it helped slightly but not much. | ||
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 Cover, 8 pages before the staples, 8 pages after, back cover.
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MrNotSoNice private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by comixfan59 I see the evidence and I think the damage happened as you say. Not sure what the resolution of this will be, but I am sure going to pack my corners carefully in the future. |
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| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by comixfan59 Yeaaaaa... my Quickie Mart boss says the same thing to me  |
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| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm good with splotches.
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Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by drchaos I'm the same way with my expensive books. - paranoid and tend to drop off/pickup at shows. At one point maybe 3 years ago the paranoia was so bad that I was dropping books off with a presser at a con. Then at a future con he'd deliver the pressed books to me physically at the show. Then I'd drop those books off at CBCS at that same show (maybe even a future show). Coordination became a nightmare especially for signings. I had to relinquish much of my paranoia and now go with Registered Mail - but man o man it was and still is anxiety for me. The registered mail option lightens the load for me - someone on this forum (not sure who) recommended it and it has helped greatly so thank you to whomever that is. |
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| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
 It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This situation is quite disturbing. It is going to make me change the way I submit comics. I'm going to include a full page notice that reads something like this: "The comics packaged for this submission have no visible damage, just corner or edge wear, if that. Should they arrive with any damage (corners crunched, crumpled or folded covers, large bends, etc.), please do not grade them without notifying me first. This will give me an opportunity to contact the carrier regarding a damage claim. Please retain all original packaging. Thank You" This submission is in a very gray area regarding the damage. It may have originally been hard to recognize, or interpret as damage. If the outer box was severely damaged, it should have been refused and sent back to the submitter. Sometimes the outer box can "rebound", the contents pushing the corner or edge back to its original shape. Then it appears as if little or no damage occurred. There would be no immediate reaction to send the box back. So the box gets accepted. Upon opening and doing the intake for the comics, if I saw repeated corner damage, or damage to an inner packing container, I'd bring that up to a manager. It's likely that someone didn't submit a whole pile of corner-damaged books to be graded. At least you would logically think that the submitter would send them to pressing first, if you had such a pile of corner-damaged books. The submitter should be notified and let them decide how to proceed based on available options at CBCS. Also the submitter would know of the damage to be able to start a claim with the carrier who delivered the box to CBCS. If the damage is ignored or not "discovered", a lot of time and money is going to be spent grading comics that should not be graded. But the grading company has no vested interest to intervene, and diverting the submission will in fact cost them sales. A bit of a conflict of interests, it seems. I sent a 50 comic order to the "other guys". The package arrived very damaged and was refused, but I never received notice of that. If not for tracking updates from FedEx, I would not even have known it was coming back. While it was en-route, I inquired with customer service, who had no knowledge of the package. As far as they know, if it arrived damaged, it would have just gotten sent back, and there is no record kept of that. That's the response I got. To them, it's just a package that never got to them. It was not opened there, just immediately refused. They had no idea what was in the box they just refused, no system in place to photograph the package and label to notify the sender, just sent it back. A $5000 box of comics running wild. It came back to me a week later, very destroyed. Fortunately, I had over-packed it, like a double-hulled tanker (outer box, padding, inner boxes, more padding, heavily bubble-wrapped books in bags and boards), and it seemed like no damage made it through to the inner boxes. I opened the boxes, looked through the books. I checked all the corners, and was happy that none were damaged, so no insurance claim with the carrier or my own insurance. Just need to resubmit it. A couple of weeks later when we went to resubmit it, we found that the corners were fine, but 10 of the comics had been scrunched, a "pleat" now running diagonally on each front cover for 3-4", all the same. Very subtle, but definite damage. Wish we had picked that up to put a claim in, too late now. Pressing did not remove it, just made it less visible. And of course they were the heavy hitters for value in the lot, couldn't wreck the more common issues instead. Lost quite a bit of grading value through that incident. Plus lost time in the grading process, re-shipping fees, repacking the shipment, mental distress not knowing what that box was going to look like until it got back, if it got back. I don't know if there is a solution for this. When so many comics are submitted via shipping carriers, there should be some policy in place to help the customer get the problem straightened out, even just as a courtesy to the customer. Maybe someone has a suggestion that could alleviate this dilemma. |
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| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by chester15 Or you all could just do what I do and ship by Registered mail. This won't happen to my shipments. |
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 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia Thread winner… |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia You're still assuming packages are never dropped by CBCS once in their possession. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders I've never seen CBCS employees handle packages. But I've seen Postal employees and delivery drivers handle packages. CBCS employees know what is in the packages and they know the consequences of dropping them. I'm going to guess that 95% of the issues are before the package reaches the facility. |
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia It's not impossible to damage a Registered Mail package, probably less likely, but I bet it has occurred. I know.... it never happened to you yet. It didn't happen to me, either, until it happened to me. |
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| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by flanders A very valid point. Or a stack of comics ready to be graded could "take a tumble" off a desk, all hitting the same corner on the concrete floor. Let's not tell anyone about that snafu, just put them back and continue on. Not saying that happened, but not impossible. There could be a lot of finger-pointing in these situations. Maybe the initial carrier damaged them, and no one noticed. Submitter has no recourse with the shipper now, especially given the looooong time from acceptance to graded and back into the submitter's hands. Maybe something happened to them before the shipper even got the box. Are there photos of each comic as they allegedly looked just before going into the shipping box, with nice corners??? Should CBCS have caught the possibility that someone would NOT be grading a pile of comics with crunched corners? Probably, but not an obligation, it seems. It would be good for business to be so attentive, though. No one wants what happened here to also happen to them, but I see no roadblock to future occurrences. Maybe it should be a "rule" that if they are accepted that way, the submitter losing the ability to chase the shipper for a remedy, the grading company accepts the problem by default. In this case, CBCS is pointing at the original shipper as the culprit. It aided and abetted by driving the getaway car, suppressing evidence (the damaged comics cloistered for months), and offered an alternative theory of the crime. The shipper could say the package was accepted, opened, and who knows what happened after that. The submitter is caught with no one admitting culpability, with damaged goods, and an invoice for grading damaged comics on top of it. It's a perfect Law and Order story line. Too bad that series ended. |
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