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Collector xvipah private msg quote post Address this user
I know CBCS recognizes established pedigrees. They even ask if they are pedigrees when you submit a comic. But I have 2 questions.

1) Do they have a special label, or at least acknowledge it as a pedigree on the label, when you submit a pedigree comic?
2) Do they recognize the authenticity of a pedigree if it's CGC slabbed and called out on their label? Specifically I got another Casper the Friendly Ghost "File Copy" in today and, once again, the inner well is loose in the slab. I'm done sending these back to CGC in the hopes that they get it right this time when they reholder it, but I also don't want to lose the "cool" of it being a pedigree/file copy.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
1) CBCS does not have a special label for pedigrees but the label does acknowledge a pedigree if corroborating documents are provided at the time of submission




2) Yes, CBCS will honor the pedigree status of a CGC pedigree book
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
1) CBCS does not have a special label. They do note the pedigree on the label. I found this one on eBay for a sample. It is a yellow label, but the blue label would be the same.




2) Yes, CBCS honors CGC label designations. It does have to be sent to CBCS in the CGC slab unless you send it to someone certified by CBCS to open it. (Presser, facilitator, etc)
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Collector the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user
You have a Harvey File Copy so I am guessing there is a publishers stamp on the first page or inner front cover which would authenticate it's provenance.
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Collector xvipah private msg quote post Address this user
Sweet that's good to know, thanks, guys! I can literally see this thing shift about 1/8th of an inch if I turn it. And I honestly don't trust CGC to get it right if I send it back to them, so I definitely want to send it in for a reholder here.
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Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Since this topic was brought up, I’m curious as to whether CBCS sees any advantage in going to a gold label for pedigrees as the competition has done. Any additions would probably be considered an unnecessary and/or unwarranted expense, but the gold label has proven very successful for the CGC.

The current CBCS labels and holders are superb just as they are, but in marketing some degree of product consistency ...even between competitors... can be advantageous as well. Just wondering.


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Collector jokioo private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
Since this topic was brought up, I’m curious as to whether CBCS sees any advantage in going to a gold label for pedigrees as the competition has done. Any additions would probably be considered an unnecessary and/or unwarranted expense, but the gold label has proven very successful for the CGC.

The current CBCS labels and holders are superb just as they are, but in marketing some degree of product consistency ...even between competitors... can be advantageous as well. Just wondering.


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I totally agree. Pedigree books tend to be headline-grabbing record sales, so why not incentivize those looking to slab those books with a fancy label? (i.e. Promise Collection)
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Collector Davethebrave private msg quote post Address this user
I assume it (value) depends on the pedigree?

I have one pedigree (JIM95 twin cities) and will admit the colors are crisp and condition looks better than the 8.5 on that big white label (CGC). But I am also pretty sure I didn’t pay more vs non pedigree copies.

I watched and considered bidding on the promise collection since it ticked the right boxes but didnt pull the trigger. Most of the books went for strong prices but were also the highest graded examples - so cannot say the pedigree drove anything…

I do realize a pedigree would not reduce value so only upside, but the upside must be highly variable?
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Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethebrave
I assume it (value) depends on the pedigree?

I have one pedigree (JIM95 twin cities) and will admit the colors are crisp and condition looks better than the 8.5 on that big white label (CGC). But I am also pretty sure I didn’t pay more vs non pedigree copies.

I watched and considered bidding on the promise collection since it ticked the right boxes but didnt pull the trigger. Most of the books went for strong prices but were also the highest graded examples - so cannot say the pedigree drove anything…

I do realize a pedigree would not reduce value so only upside, but the upside must be highly variable?


To a point you're absolutely right, it's about highest graded examples driving strong prices. That said, the values associated with pedigrees depend largely on several factors, the most critical of which is the story behind the books. In collecting generally, this is part of the provenance or full history of the collectible. In comics specifically it's the original owner's story that generates interest.

The other factors are the depth of the collection (number of books collected) and overall condition or eye appeal. All of this is usually tied together by some form of marking found on the book, placed there by the owner, distributor or some kind of store-stamp from where the book was purchased. In some pedigrees there are no discernible markings, but the provenance is well documented and the books ...or at least the key books... have photographic representation for comparison.

Pedigrees normally increase the value of books, some pedigrees being more prized than others, consistently hammering in multiples of guide estimated value at auction. These are usually highest graded copies with great eye appeal, but not always. Examples of highly sought after pedigrees with many top grade books selling for multiples of Guide include Edgar Church (Mile High), San Francisco (Tom Riley collection) and based on recent sales, the Promise Collection. There are others, the one thing they all have in common are interesting stories.

The stories can be simple or complex, but the ownership provenance make them even more interesting, like Bill Gaines vaulted EC File copies or the Okajima pedigree containing books collected by a Japanese-American girl while in an internment camp in WWII.

In the last HA Promise Collection books went for phenomenal prices. Part of it was the poignant story behind the books, but it was also the fact that a lot of later GA was represented ('44-'50) where high grade books almost never show up. The collector's taste was also heavy on adventure, superhero and horror books. Even the books that weren't highest graded went for more than their non-pedigree counterparts.

If I were to criticize anything about the presentation of this collection, it would be the CGC's optimistic grading. Many of the books to my eye appeared to be over-graded by about two clicks just based on the structural integrity of the covers (IOW, some books graded 9.8 clearly looked more like 9.4, ...others, 9.2 appeared more like an 8.5, etc.). Loose grading? Overzealous? It's always a judgment call, but when crowning a book the new "king" there'll be comparisons made with other majestic copies and that might raise questions.

Sorry about the length of this, but there was a lot of turf to cover!
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
@CatmanAmerica Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I get the sense that the Pedigrees value may be at it's highest at the initial auction...when there is a lot of publicity and promotion work going into getting the story out and building enthusiasm for a Pedigree. Like the villains in whatever is the next Marvel blockbuster movie. I get the sense that interest level in a specific pedigree can die down over the years as other and new exciting pedigrees are introduced. Making it fairly easy sometimes to pick up Pedigree books on the secondary market years after the initial introductory auctions. Do you think that is somewhat the case?
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Collector CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbayMafia
@CatmanAmerica Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I get the sense that the Pedigrees value may be at it's highest at the initial auction...when there is a lot of publicity and promotion work going into getting the story out and building enthusiasm for a Pedigree. Like the villains in whatever is the next Marvel blockbuster movie. I get the sense that interest level in a specific pedigree can die down over the years as other and new exciting pedigrees are introduced. Making it fairly easy sometimes to pick up Pedigree books on the secondary market years after the initial introductory auctions. Do you think that is somewhat the case?


Depending on the Pedigree's reputation some may lose a bit of their luster over time for a variety of reasons (insufficient books in the collection, grading issues, etc.), but there are a number of blue ribbon pedigrees like Church, San Francisco, Gaines File Copies (EC), etc., that continue increasing in value at an exponential rate.

The new kids on the block are the Promise Collection and the Chinatown Pedigree. My money would be on both of those having legs as they cover periods without a lot of high grade representation and have interesting background stories which attract collectors, the larger Promise Collection especially.
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Secret Moderator MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
Since this topic was brought up, I’m curious as to whether CBCS sees any advantage in going to a gold label for pedigrees as the competition has done. Any additions would probably be considered an unnecessary and/or unwarranted expense, but the gold label has proven very successful for the CGC.


I love the gold labels.

They also set pedigree books apart from special collection labels (like the Nick Cage collection). I suppose the penultimate now, if you're into that thing, would be a pedigree label WITH a collection notation.

I wish CBCS would catch up in the label arena.

I know, many will say labels don't matter. But they matter to me and I doubt I'm alone.
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Collector the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user
The Twin Cities / Gary Dahlberg collection certainly is no slouch - I would place it up there with the Pacific Coast and Curator pedigrees. The JIM95 8.5 is one of the ugly ducklings that all pedigrees seem to have. Heck I have a few 5.0 Mile High books.

Silver age books are plentiful and always available if you have the dough. A good portion of the books in the Promise Collection are just not available in ultra high grade hence the insane prices. It disheartens me to hear they were over-graded though.

With the market peaking the way it is you have to wonder what else will be flushed out of hiding?
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