Monthly (Comic) Book Club - June - Powers: Who Killed Retro Girl & Roleplay14819
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I saw you ran through the rest of the issues, so I did too. I'll just do some reactions. Issue 4 - it is kind of unexplained how Kutter figured out to talk to the Wolf. Maybe he's sort of a criminal mastermind type, so Kutter thought he would just try it? Or maybe Kutter is more capable than the impression he gives? Either way, still not very smart. Looks like Walker is/was a superhero, which makes a lot of other things in the issues so far make sense. More plausible than him just having been around all these heroes and villains enough that they recognize him as a cop. Issue 5 - Walker's backstory makes perfect sense for what we've seen, but is still mysterious. How does someone just lose their superpowers? Maybe something that gets resolved in the future. The 'open up the tip line' is another classic cop trope. I can't decide if it's messing up the trope to not have a bunch of crank calls and false leads, or if it's nice to just cut to the chase. Issue 6 - I suppose the case does wrap up kind of tidily. I don't know if that's writing without the ending in mind, or maybe it's supposed to reflect how a case would actually play out. Maybe police cases usually catch a valid lead and then things go quickly from there? I don't honestly know. The comic has also been pretty committed to only giving us Walker and Pilgrim's side of the story, so it would be a little out of place (or just a different choice) to cut in with things that other people were up to. Keeping the Law and Order analogy, it's much more L&O and less Law and Order: Criminal Intent. If the detectives had thought of drainers earlier, they probably would have gone down some rabbit holes figuring out who could build such a thing on their own, who was buying appropriate parts, etc. If there was a anti-hero movement with any popularity, they would have been talking to those people already, etc. Which I say only to say that those things could have happened, we just would have seen a different investigation if they had. I was glad to read this again, because the bit with Calista makes the last trade I read (some 40 issues and a different publisher later) make more sense. It's been long enough that I forgot all about it. |
||
| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk I still think they could've introduced some of the concepts earlier without breaking the conceit of a one-sided point of view. The drainers, for example. If they are used to depower villains in jails and prisons then it could've easily been mentioned or seen used at the police station. Heck, Pilgrim is even the one that recalls the name of the device when interviewing the guy at the copy shop. So clearly they should've been aware of them and in retrospect not bringing them up as a possibility seems to either point to writing without an ending on Bendis' part or shoddy policework on Walker and Pilgrim's part. Yes it could've resulted in an entirely different investigation or Bendis could've introduced the drainers and explained why they weren't explored significantly in the investigation. Even a line with the me like Walker asking "What about Drainers, we use them at the station to weaken powers when we bring them in" and the ME replying "I told you I have nothing, one way or the other. I'm just utterly useless and just here to eat up pages." Okay, maybe not that last sentence but these logical gaps shouldn't just be left open because the story is supposed to be a certain way, it's the author's responsibility to cover them. I know I'm heaping a lot of criticism on Bendis on this point but I did enjoy the story for the most part. It's just that on a mystery I think it's important to stick the landing and I don't think that happened here and as I mentioned, it's not the first Bendis mystery with this same out of nowhere ending that doesn't quite hold up against the rest of the buildup. |
||
| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, that's fair. There could've been a "no one has portable dampeners" or something like that. Since I typed it out loud though, I will say that there's a benefit to showing just the one side of things. When you get a scene of someone leaned over a table in a dark room soldering something, you know it's going to be important later even if maybe you don't know what they're making. When you never see that stuff it keeps more mystery and more options open. It does put more weight on making sure the protagonists act reasonably though, and leaves the story open to the kinds of questions you're asking. |
||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wk3 (6/14-6/20): Powers #7-9   |
||
| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Monthly (Comic) Book Club - July - Thunderbolts Red Scare/Infinity  Thunderbolts (2013) #7-18 Wk1 (6/28-7/4): Thunderbolts #7-9 Wk2 (7/5-7/11): Thunderbolts #10-12 Wk3 (7/12-7/18): Thunderbolts #13-15 Wk4 (7/19-7/25): Thunderbolts #16-18 |
||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
For whatever reason, the Image trades skipped #7 and moved on to 8 through 11. I'm guessing because 7 is kind of a stand-alone issue. Instead, #7 is in this trade with the Annual, an activity/coloring book, and I think issues 12-14 going by issue descriptions on MCS. Hopefully it will make more sense when I start reading.  |
||
| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Issue 7 is indeed a stand-alone issue, and basically a meta-commentary. Warren Ellis is Warren Ellis, meeting up with Walker to get a ride-along as background research for some project. It ends kind of unsatisfactorily, but maybe that's an Ellis meta-reference that I don't get. Otherwise it fits in with the series: cop tropes, lots of conversation, some powers show up at the end. I did a little googling and found that Ellis' monologue/diatribe to Walker is pretty much word-for-word taken from things that he's said. I wonder if Bendis put it in there because he agrees (there was nowhere to write comic book stories that anyone would see unless superheroes are involved... like, say, Powers), or as kind of a joke to make Ellis sound pompous, or maybe both. This trade doesn't have an interview or any material from Bendis but the next one does; maybe there's something in the extra material. If you had asked me before we started, I would've said that I didn't care much one way or the other for Oeming's art. But it is growing on me a bit, and I do like the repeated panels where someone's eyes shift or the like. It does come off a pinch lazy, repeating that much, but I like it better than having one panel with little wave-y lines or something to try to indicate movement. Plus, if you take the panel breaks seriously, it adds a little time and tension to the scene. |
||
| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My 8 to 11 trade doesn't have a whole lot in terms of extra material, but there's a short interview with Oeming. It says he was specifically looking for a crime book to do in a Timm/Toth style, and since he had been in touch over the years with Bendis things fell into place. Whenever the interview was done, they had some kind of deal for a movie in place (which obviously fell through, or at least morphed into the Amazon series) and it mentions their plan for the coloring/activity book that's in my other trade. Apparently Oeming did a ride-along, or at least went to a station and talked to people, and he saw that they have these little safety cartoon book things. Maybe that was the impetus for #7. | ||
| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My trade also doesn't have any separation between different issues. I guess they aren't really necessary; it's like binging a show, so who cares where the breaks are? But it was practically difficult since I'm trying to stop at a certain point. Issue 8 starts the next arc, which is focused on the murder of a group of LARPers, roughly speaking. Everything is still very wordy and conversation-based, but I think Bendis does a good job of using it to give the characters personality. I feel like I have a better handle on Walker and Pilgrim, and a few side characters, then I do after reading 7 issues of some big superhero books. There's a lot of shadow in the artwork in general, but I get a little extra something whenever they cover the bottom of Walker's face, like his Diamond mask. I don't think it's always done to remind us of his superhero days, but probably often. The detectives get two leads: Walker talks to one of the victim's girlfriend, and Pilgrim finds a woman dressed like Retro Girl. Issue 9 has the detectives chasing down leads based on the costumes, which are illegal. I don't remember, was that made explicit before? People seem to like Retro Girl quite a bit, and Zora just flew around. This arc's power-related non-sequitur is a guy popping out of another dimension. I like how the computer-graphic style makes him seem extra weird. We learn a bit about the suspect, the Pulp, and we learn that some people have figured out how to give themselves powers in this universe. Pilgrim is not a fan of those people. Going back to the use of shadows, her face in the conversation with Walker about killing them is effective. The only known associate of the Pulp is Johnny Royalle, so he gets pulled into the story again. He tries to dismissively teleport away but leaves his arm behind when Pilgrim grabs it to stop him. That's a heck of a way to end an issue, in my opinion. |
||
| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk Definitely agree with you about the ambiguity regarding the writer’s position. The ending does seem to suggest some sort of commentary was intended as one guy is hesitant to buy Powers despite the glowing recommendation, opting instead to wait foe the movie. It calls back Ellis’ comment about movies being a shared experience but again, it’s hard to tell what Bendis’ position is since the epilogue is an imperfect call-back to Ennis’ statement. One of the two guys obviously read something non-superhero and is recommending it but its not like the other guy was turning it down in favor of a superhero comic. I almost think maybe Bendis just wanted to put Ellis’ speech out there for people who don’t read interviews to see it. It’s also tough to discern if the story was also meant to be a commentary on Ellis as a person. He is written as a bit of a blowhard I do think that the ending was a bit self-aggrandizing on Bendis’ part as you have one guy speaking the world about Powers and it’s mind-blowing ending when I felt the ending to the previous arc and this standalone story were a bit meh. Maybe he was poking fun at his own expense? But maybe I’m just in the minority since you’ll find no shortage of people online saying how great Bendis’ writing has been in the series up to this point but as much as I try, I just haven’t found it satisfying. On the art, I can’t complain too much. Yeah I might find the repeated art a bit much but I really enjoy that Alex Toth style, most likely because Batman: The Animated Series exposed me to it at an early age. |
||
| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I thought Issue 8 had a pretty good setup. I still think it gets distractingly wordy in places but I did like how with the first few pages you’re not sure if maybe you’re seeing a flashback of Walker as a hero in his youth and it’s not really broken until Walker and Pilgrim are called to the first body. I also enjoyed the way they introduced the three additional murders and I liked the arrangement of the panels with Walker’s interview in the center and the silent panels following Pilgrim around the three edges. So I think this issue sets up a good mystery but I don’t think that was really an issue with the first arc. |
||
| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I thought the end of issue 9 was pretty funny. I guess Johnny must not have very fine control of his teleportation or else he would’ve stopped/reversed it when Pilgrim grabbed him instead of just looking scared and letting it happen. But no, the costumes being illegal wasn’t brought up before and the story kind of lampshades the question about what constitutes an illegal costume in this world because it does seem kind of flimsy on the surface. And the guy’s shop is called “Masks & Mettle Costume Emporium” so I really wonder what kind of costumes he can legally sell and which are illegal. The issue is mostly detective footwork but with a bit of an exposition dump regarding what little there is known about the Pulp. Seeing Johnny Royale made me realize that we haven’t seen Kutter in a while. You’d think the scumball would be all over this one. I also wonder if the lawsuit will get resolved eventually or if it’s just going to hang there over the course of the series, though I wouldn’t be surprised if he adds another one after the ending of this issue |
||
| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite It could be a "why not both?" situation. Maybe Bendis is making a little fun of Ellis, but also making fun of himself and/or writers in general. I think you have to have at least a little pretentiousness to sit down and write a book (comic or otherwise) with the goal of having other people read it. |
||
| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite It does seem flimsy but also reminds me of plenty of real-life situations. The debates we've had in the forum about media mail or taxes is not all that far off from some superhero vs. Halloween costume conversation that you could easily plug in here. |
||
| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite It did raise some "how does it work?" questions for me, too, but I put them away because a) we will hopefully find out next issue or b) we won't, and it'll be kind of unsatisfying. Mostly I was curious if it's an actual power of his or a technology; you wouldn't think a biological ability would leave his own arm behind. |
||
| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| So a little prediction/what I would do: It was previously shown to have been a surprise that Johnny had teleportation powers. Given that we just got two pages of exposition on the Pulp and more broadly powers that got their abilities artificially (I believe they’re call microbes but I’m at work so I’m writing this from memory), it would make sense to solidify Johnny’s link to that and reveal that he got his powers artificially. He’s gonna, understandably rage, after losing his arm. He might threaten criminal charges but maybe partaking in underground powers-granting procedures might not be above board so in exchange for not getting charged (and maybe medical bills) he’ll reveal who did his procedure and not bring charges. The doctor might lead to or secretly be the Pulp himself. We’ll see where it goes. Quote: Originally Posted by xkonk I’ve learned that Ellis, the character, appears again down the line so I imagine Ellis wasn’t offended the first time around. Maybe he just thought it was cool to be in a comic and get his words spread out further. I also thought it was interesting how Powers included the tirade against super hero comics and only a few years later we’d start seeing an explosion of indie-non-superhero books like Walking Dead and nowadays it seems like every month you’re hearing about some new hot indie book or another like Briggs Land, Southern Bastards, Ice Cream Man, etc |
||
| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Another thought about the Ellis bit I had, related to your last part, was that maybe Bendis couldn't get anyone to pick up the book unless superheroes were involved. I would believe that could've been true at the time. | ||
| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wk4 (6/21-6/27): Powers #10-11  |
||
| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Issues 10 and 11 went pretty quickly, probably because my trade doesn't put a break in there and because there's a bit more action in it than in the other issues. The series continues to be what it is. I like Oeming's work. Even with the pretty cartoon-y style he does a good job of conveying emotion. He still does the Walker/Diamond shadow thing, but when Walker talks to Nick Roberts it looks more like the symbol on his chest instead of the mask. I think the arc wraps up nicely while setting up a next one. It turns out that the kids hired the Pulp to spice up their LARPing, but didn't realize that apparently he's crazy enough that he just hunted them for sport (or didn't understand that it was a game at all). And Johnny Royalle was apparently murdered in the hospital. Given their earlier discussion, Pilgrim could actually be a suspect. But, with how pleased he seems and the face he made when Pilgrim was suspended, maybe Kutter had something to do with it? I think the arc also did a good job of adding to the leads' characterizations. Pilgrim's looks and sarcasm give a "who cares" kind of vibe, but she cares about closing cases and doesn't like the office politics getting in her way. She also slots into the 'tough cop' mold with her opinion on people who give themselves powers and the rampant ass-kicking. Walker, despite seeming like the more easy-going of the two and having seen everything before, was distraught over kids dressing up like superheroes and getting killed for no reason. They weren't actually fighting crime but they were risking their lives. I enjoyed getting back into the series. I might have to break out my other trades again and give them a run. |
||
| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The last two issues did go by pretty quickly but I didn’t find it it to be all that satisfying of an ending. This is the second time in as many arcs where the cops just kinda stumble on the bad guy instead of actually outsmarting or getting ahead of them. In the first arc the guy wasn’t home when they raided his place and end up finding him tagging a wall a block away from the police station. In this arc, Walker is out of leads, nothing to follow up on, but luckily another role player still stupid enough to be wearing his costume out in public is following Walker and happens to get killed while Walker is still nearby. I’m not sure how I was supposed to feel, if anything, about the revelation that the kids hired the Pulp. I’m not even sure if they knew who they were hiring as it’s just described as “he knows a guy who knows a guy.” I also think it kind of avoids the actual interesting question. The whole arc is this big thing about nobody knows anything about the Pulp and the police, even an ex Power, have no ideas at all, so who are these guys that know the Pulp and can hire him for a $500 job? I’m of two sides on the Johnny Royale thing. I guess I’m not sympathizing too much with Pilgrim here. I mean, accident or not, she partly responsible for a guy losing his arm. That doesn’t seem like bureaucratic red tape to me, that’s like, royally screwing the pooch. The idea of Johnny being murdered and the obvious suspect being Pilgrim is interesting but at this point I’m not sure it would pay off in a satisfying way. Heck, even Johnny Royale’s death happens off-screen sit doesn’t land with any sort of significance, except that the reader may think Pilgrim is involved but if anyone in the story suspects the same thing it certainly wasn’t shown. So I guess, in conclusion, these two arcs haven’t done much to change my opinion on Bendis’ writing. I think there is a decent world to be found where I can see potential for interesting stories but I don’t know if it’s supposed to be mundane realism or if Bendis focuses too much on build-up without working into a satisfying payoff but I just do not enjoy Bendis’ mysteries or much of his other work for that matter. Bendis gets a lot of praise so maybe I just don’t “get him” in the way some people don’t like Moore or Miller. And for such a well-respected writer, he doesn’t seem to know how to spell the word “counsel.” I agree that the art is great. It’s stylized nature never really had to prove itself to me. I just wish it could be put to serve a more satisfying story |
||
| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Starting Monday, New Month (kinda), New Reading, New Thread! Thunderbolts (2013) #7-18 (aka vol 2: Red Scare and vol 3: Infinity) Wk1 (6/28-7/4): Thinderbolts (2013) #7-9    |
||
| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| On the general idea of police stories, I'm about halfway through the first season of Broadchurch on Netflix. It was originally on BBC America, has been out for a few years. It's about the police in a small town (Broadchurch) investigating the murder of a young boy. It isn't the same as Powers, in that there are no superheroes and also it's not focused entirely on the police, but the policework in general strikes me as similar. They collect evidence and interview people. The murderer isn't immediately obvious so they're basically waiting for a break. They're still doing stuff but mostly eliminating suspects more than tracking down one guilty person. I don't know if it's true or not, but TV leads me to believe that if a murder (maybe any case?) isn't solved in about two days, it has very little chance of being solved at all. If true, it makes me think that solving a murder is either roughly obvious as soon as you talk to the right person or find the right thing, or dumb luck like seeing the guy spraypaint a confession on your way to lunch. |
||
| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have no problem with the interviewing/evidence collecting part of police stories. When done well I find it interesting. My issue is that Bendis’ writing doesn’t make the process interesting and the fact that two arcs in a row had the culprit practically falling into the police’s lap comes across as repetitive and lazy. If you think about it, both perpetrators would’ve been arrested had the police done nothing before the last couple of issues. The first guy for spray painting near a police station. They might not have had much background on him yet but he seemed eager to tell his story, regardless. And the Pulp killed a guy in view of the police. I just don’t think claiming to be “realistic” is an excuse for an unsatisfying story. It’s the writer’s job to inject that into the story while maintaining the veneer of realism. Otherwise, why am I reading this and not some random police report? I honestly do want to see what becomes of the Johnny Royale case but at this point I don’t feel Bendis’ writing is going to result in something I find satisfying. |
||
| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That's fair. If someone doesn't enjoy a story, they don't enjoy a story. As much as I like a Sherlock Holmes or Agatha Christie story, my guess is that dumb luck and sheer obviousness solves equal numbers of real cases was my main point. Telling a story that way does put a lot of weight on enjoying the process though. | ||
| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
This topic is archived. Start new topic?