Newly Minted/Discovered Pedigree Collection14752
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Anyone skeptical about the likeliness of collecting 5000 comic books by 21 years old...in the 1940's? Korean war was 1950-1953 and the brother was 21 when he died there. That's a lot of books to accumulate off newsstands and maintain in attics in pristine condition in a time when comic book storage supplies didn't exist. | ||
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 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| In the past, a original owner of books was bought by a dealer and brought to market. It was the market and us collectors who were the ones that would accept a collection to be deemed pedigree status. That power has been removed from us and now is dictated by third party grading companies. Third party grading companies are meant to be impartial. They are not impartial when it comes to accepting pedigree collections on our behalf. Grade the collection with us and give us the business and we will call it a pedigree. Did that happen to the mile high 2s Then years later it was deemed not a pedigree. If it was not deemed a pedigree to start with would so many have been graded? I'm not saying The Promise collection is not worthy of pedigree status. But is it not up to us the collectors and the market to come to that conclusion instead of just being told. Impartial third party grading companies should not be in the business to artificially create a collectible secondary market. Pedigree labels, character labels ect. They'll go the next step and have signed limited editions and start flogging them off on the home shopping network. Once again I'm not saying this collection is not worthy of pedigree status. But a sketchy back ground story doesn't sound good if it turns into another mile high 2 Just my thoughts on pedigrees in the age of third part grading. |
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 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Considering who "us" includes these days, I'd think there would be a ton of people who think of there collection as a pedigree, and would demand it put on the label. | ||
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia In the 1940s, the print run for comics were in the millions...somebody was buying those books...and regularly. |
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 Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @southerncross lots of food for thought in that post. I have a few Qs for someone who is more knowledgeable than me. Before CGC , there were pedigrees, right? (Or were they just called 'collections' ... like 'the Edgar Church collection') So, was there a panel with the 'authority' to call a collection a 'pedigree'? (Like Overstreet holding a gavel saying something like, "I proclaim this collection to be a pedigree."  Then, CGC comes along and sort of wrestles the gavel from the panel. Now they, and they alone, can declare a collection to be a pedigree? Here's a What If for ya...what if Overstreet (or CBCS for that matter) think a certain collection deserves pedigree status, but CGC doesn't? Let's say a few years down the road, CGC goes out of business. Now who has the power? Maybe Steve can shed some light on the process and who has what authority? |
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 Collector
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CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Gaard The first time I recall seeing a reference to Pedigree collections was in the Photo-Journal Guide to Comics that Gerber published around 1990, referring to things like the Church collection. Long before CGC, obviously. It’s likely the word was used before that, but being pre-Internet, info wasn’t as easy to come by. | ||
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 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| All pedigrees have always been bull shit to me. The grade is the grade no matter where it came from |
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 I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The Mile High II books were determined to be a warehouse find. | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 I'm the opposite, I think old comic books are historical artifacts and I love knowing backstories. I like knowing that Mark Jewelers were sold on military bases, I like dates stamped on covers and even nicely written names sometimes. Pedigrees are pretty cool to me. And this one should be especially cool. But I just can't bring myself to buy into it. It's too good of a story. The numbers are too big. The grades are too good. Sometimes stories like this have a basis of truth but are not entirely truthful. My best conspiracy theory is that there is a true backstory with a core of a couple hundred books that one brother kept as a promise to another. And some major dealer who saw value in that story also saw an opportunity to add several thousand super high-grade books to that story before convincing CGC to turn it into a Pedigree. |
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I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| An 8.5, 9.0 or whatever grade is all that concerns me. I’m not interested in paying an extra premium for some sappy back story. All I care about Is the book and it’s condition and grade. | ||
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 Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like knowing where a book comes from, what its story is...if it has unusual markings or characteristics it is also useful to know what they are or mean. Anyone who owns a book from the Cosmic Aeroplane pedigree for instance will understand. Condition and grade are easy....knowing what you really have is far more important to me | ||
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 Collector
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Sagii private msg quote post Address this user | |
Nice to see a Thread on this side of the pond about the find! |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Haljordanfan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @BigRedOne1944 - You and Watson are my long lost brothers.... | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Does anyone know if there are other super-high grade Pedigrees where writing on the cover was the norm? It just seems so odd that a teenager would both preserve pristine condition and write on the book at the same time. But it was a different era then. | ||
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Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There's the Lamont Larson books. Those were the first and last name of the boy that was getting his comics from the newstand. The newstand people wrote his name on the front of the books to keep under the counter for him to buy when he came into the newstand. Winnipeg have Dennis and a last name signed in pen  Later white mountain copies have the year date written with biro on the cover  |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BigRedOne1944 I like pedigrees. I like non-pedigrees. I like comic books. I pay what most would consider stupid money from them. But hey, I don't drink nor smoke and at least I can get a little money out of my vice if I decide to give it up. |
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Collector
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafiaThe Cosmic Aeroplane collection is known for writing on nearly every page of the books. but not the covers so much |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Haljordanfan Opinionated old farts? |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
 The Fifth Golden Girl
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sborock private msg quote post Address this user | |
| WOW! A lot to read through! If you have not seen a Church copy (small writing on cover), a Reilly copy (stamp on back cover), White Mountains (arrival date in pen)these would blow your mind. There are other peds I have not mentioned. Some pedigree's, IMHO, are worth paying multiples for. Some are not. Buy the book, not the pedigree LOL! |
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The Fifth Golden Girl
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sborock private msg quote post Address this user | |
@DrWatson You're not that old.  |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Gaard This is a quote on CGC's site talking about the Rocky Mountain pedigree... "The Spider-Man, Fantastic Four and X-men runs were first auctioned without pedigree, but due to high collector interest the decision was made by CGC to classify the collection as a pedigree." I assume this means CGC has the authority to declare a collection to be a pedigree? Does CBCS have that same authority? Is there an example of CGC declaring a collection to be a pedigree, but CBCS does not? Or is it - as long as someone decides that a collection to be a pedigree, everyone must follow suit? So, if you ask anyone (Overstreet, CGC, CBCS, etc.) how many pedigrees there are, they will all have the same answer. |
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Anyone can declare a collection a pedigree. Everyone else can or can not follow suit. There are pedigrees that neither recognize, but still have some very nice books. The Golden State books and the Slobodian books come to mind. I'm sure you would get as many different answers as the number of people you'd ask. The most correct answer would probably be found under the biggest pile of money. A pedigree collection used to be a way addressing an unusually high grade and well preserved books. Now, I think it's more of an advertising tactic with the most blatant example being the new Promise Collection. |
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Why just the women? I like bears.
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Gaard private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks dude. I'm not a pedigree guy at all, but I find this whole 'who decides?' thing both confusing and interesting. | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The collecting community established pedigrees before the cgc came along. I suppose they still can, but it is much more commercially motivated now. | ||
| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC and CBCS make their own labels so at the end of the day they decide what they consider a pedigree. Justifying it to everyone else is a different story. And vice versa; presumably it takes some effort to convince CGC/CBCS that something should be labeled in a special way. | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Effort = Money | ||
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 I’m not an ant. I’m a rootin tootin Hornet!
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Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I had a pedigree Cgc book I opened it lol | ||
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I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There's nothing wrong with cracking out a book. I would keep the label to preserve the pedigree if it didn't come with a certificate. | ||
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I’m not an ant. I’m a rootin tootin Hornet!
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Zombie_Head private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson I kept the label but it’s probably worthless now since it’s been opened. |
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 Collector
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Triplecdad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| “Effort = money” quoth Dr. Watson Truer words are never spoken. Jerry Spence, a famous attorney said, “People are only as honest as they can afford to be.” I strongly suspect that is true regarding the alleged “Promise” books. That advice certainly holds true with the CGC book owners bashing CBCS. I have yet to see anyone anywhere state that CBCS is more lax in its grading. Indeed the opposite is true. The internet is replete with examples of CGC errors, while (with some exceptions of course) CBCS grading is recognized as solid and even stricter by the vast majority of those commenting. What does this mean? Well if you own CGC books but the other company has a better record of strict grading that undermines the value of your CGC label. Hence the constant posturing that CGC is somehow “better” when the evidence is otherwise. When I sent in books to be graded I had to choose which company and after researching both chose the one with the best overall reputation. I guess my point is that Mr. Spence’s advice has never proven false. We may never know the truth about the Promise pedigree because of the money involved. |
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