Video: 5 Ways CBCS is BETTER Than CGC14594
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mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia You do realize that CGC just hired a whackload of people specifically for receiving, shipping and warehouse right? ANd that they're moving to a 70000sqf building? That will directly affect the turn around times. Sounds exactly like they hired the right kind people. BTW those labels are childs play. Any designer could build one in 5 minutes or less.Not sure why you'd bag on something designed to make the hobby more fun. |
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| Post 126 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @mediaslave I'm not going over to the CGC boards and bagging on anything. I don't even have any antipathy for CGC or their product. I'm not the one who's Preaching and Apostletizing. You've made your choice for your reasons, CBCS customers have made our choice for our reasons. If you're comfortable with your choice then you should not be feeling so compelled to keep coming over here and insisting that CBCS try to be more like CGC. We don't want them to do that, we like how it is here. Is there something about your choice that you need to get off your chest? | ||
| Post 127 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia I am not saying that CBCS should be like CGC. I think CBCS should always be CBCS. I have said, repeatedly and quite clearly, that if CBCS is going to try and compete with CGC (which they currently do not), then they need to stop appearing to be second-rate. I've been quite clear about that opinion and backed it up with examples. And I go to the CGC forum and bag on things they do. Why shouldn't I? IF they do something dumb, they deserve it. I'm the one that posted a photo of a book that came back upside down and called them out on it. Does that sound like kissing ass to you? If you actually read what I'm writing and take time to understand it, you can clearly see what I'm saying is far more impartial than most. You continuously post absurd and easily dismissable statements like pricing at parity that have no footing in the real market, but I don't rage post and fight. I just post examples of why you're incorrect, hoping to show a more realistic side. This is a forum. I have CBCS books. Just because I'm not a rampant fanboy doesn't mean I don't have a right to post replies.  |
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| Post 128 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @mediaslave Fair enough. Honestly, I've seen some of the work you've done and I think you are probably a top-shelf graphic designer. I personally loved the ideas that you presented for new labels for CBCS...that's not why I pushed back against it. I pushed back because I think you underestimate the resources required to make changes. Ideating is the easy (and fun) part, executing is the hard (and risky) part. For starters, a label change would have to go to the Board of Directors or parent company for input and approval. This part alone could throw it into the "why aren't we considering multiple ideas from multiple designers?" category. CBCS is the meat-and-potatoes company...their core advantage is lower prices, shorter TAT's and consistent grading. CGC has the luxury of first-to-market and a 14 year head start in developing customer base. They have more margin for error. They can be the place to go to for frills and exotic side dishes. Isn't it good to have both choices? To also have the affordable Diner that makes great but simple dishes and the higher end restaurant that offers pricier but more interesting options that take longer to prepare? I'm sure that Cheesecake Factory does more business than any show featured on Diners, Drive-ins and Dives...but I would hate to see them all be convinced that they need to become more like Cheesecake Factory. Probably 90% of those beloved restaurants would go broke in the process. | ||
| Post 129 • IP flag post | ||
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mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbayMafia I'm an OK designer. Nowhere near top shelf. And I understand exactly the resources required for something like that. I've built far, FAR more complicated projects than that, and know the requirements for printing etc and rough costs. I also know that if CBCS is going to elevate their image to attempt a challenge with CGC, its gonna cost them. Look at Kia for example. Early 2000s, they were a joke of a car company. But late 2000s, they made some moves that cost them a LOT, but timed it perfectly with the collapse of the auto industry during the housing crash and now they're absolutely crushing it. Definitely making better cars than most of the US brands anyways. But they also shifted their brand identity, raising their prices but still being a solid deal. IMO (and I hope I've been pretty consistent in this) CBCS comes across as a purely functional, second place option to CGC. They don't feel professional or nearly at the level of CGC. They lack any sort of brand identity, they have no story, no visual pride, no sizzle. CGC, for all their faults, do. And people want to partner with a winner. New Balance shoes are perfectly effective and everybit as functional as Nike. Guess who dominates there? And its got nothing to do with time in the market, as some of Nike's competitors have more time in there but fail to threaten Nike at all. Tesla (not a fan of them, but whatever) is kicking the hell out of a lot of auto companies, and they sure as hell aren't worried about Ford and their generational headstart.  CBCS has a path and an opportunity, but I gotta say they keep doing the wrong things at every chance. Again, just my opinion, but what it says to me is that they don't know what to do, don't have a plan, and keep missing the bigger picture. |
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| Post 130 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I am often intrigued when I read general statements ... any general statements about any topic because I sense there are often specifics behind the generalities that aren't being stated for a myriad of potential reasons. General adjectives to describe CBCS such as not as professional; lacks brand identity, no story, no sizzle, does wrong things at every point, no plan, etc... can leave a reader confused or cause another individual to be argumentative (which has already happened in this thread). I like hearing opinions based on facts and I enjoy hearing specifics. So I suppose my question to you is what, specifically, would you do today for the successful future you envision for CBCS; and how would each specific action address each individual failure you see? |
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| Post 131 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like CBCS because Steve Borock let me spend the night in his hotel room once. | ||
| Post 132 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by DrWatson What happens in Vegas.. |
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| Post 133 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 I actually did have a plan for then, but unless they're hiring a marketing director they're not getting it. They do need at least a one year plan of attack though, minimum. It's not a hard thing to implement, but it would take money and determination. It would also involve reversing a lot of the decisions they've made, so not sure how that would go. |
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| Post 134 • IP flag post | ||
 I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like CBCS because I can't get a free hot breakfast with money down on any appliances.... | ||
| Post 135 • IP flag post | ||
 To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die.
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MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user | |
And I like turtles  |
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| Post 136 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @mediaslave for now, why don't you convince them to let you run the CBCS Canada Satellite, since there are still a lot of Canucks complaining about turnaround times. | ||
| Post 137 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| It would be incredible, just a bold, solid, incredible move for CBCS to seek ISO 9000 certification. I have worked in manufacturing, r&d, and quality. It is essential for any company that manufactures a product and would, in my opinion, blow the roof off that crappy monopoly. It's costly and requires dedication and commitment but the benefits that would come with it would be major. |
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| Post 138 • IP flag post | ||
 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 lol..ISO is crap!! just means you document and follow your process...not that the process is good, have a silly process but follow it every time = ISO!!! yeah, yeah..there is a continuous improvement portion but still you can get the certification with a bad but consistent way of doing things!! |
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| Post 139 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics Ummmm... yea... ok |
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| Post 140 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For the record, I work for a Healthcare company. ISO 9000 cert is a requirement and have been in Mfg, Quality, R&D for 35 years. If a process is "not good", it requires management review and thus improvement if not acceptable. I'm certainly not going to go into the myriad of details and information but if you think you can just continue producing a poor product or exhibiting poor customer service then you're not really understanding. I have sat with the FDA every year for our procedures and improvement initiatives and I assure you we'd be shut down if our followed procedures were "bad" year in and year out It does work when management and workers are committed to making it work |
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| Post 141 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 Scratching my head for the last 30 minutes. Trying to figure out if this is serious or satirical. |
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| Post 142 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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mediaslave private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 I was with a company for years that was ISO, and their products sucked and constantly had performance issues. Showed me that in theory ISO should be great, but like anything you can game the system. I seriously doubt any collector would care either. |
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| Post 143 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by mediaslave I would also like to point out that they aren't paying you for all this free advice and feedback you are providing on the forum. I suggest you demand adequate compensation before you continue. |
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| Post 144 • IP flag post | ||
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Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| IDK....I've working in manufacturing on the finance side for almost 20yrs now...ISO seems like a great idea but requires lots of commitment to the process to make it work but in the end ISO is like most other "certifications" they are almost all BS, they take a fee so you can put a sticker saying you are fish friendly, "organic" - by the way many "organic" farming can be even harsher on the environment, or heart healthy or "sustainable" or, or, or.....they take a fee, you self audit, when they audit it's not in their interest to revoke..because they want their fee..so you get a warning, external audits are infrequent or only for a few processes rather than all etc.etc. sorry....very jaded...currently in week 7 of a finance audit from KPMG and mostly it's a joke... |
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| Post 145 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not in Healthcare its no joke. We take it seriously. Again like anything, it requires commitment else most anything can be twisted. If it were my company I'd do it and sell it. And the key is that cbcs and cgc produce a product |
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| Post 146 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Again folks... a system for customer complaints, obtaining KPI'S and metrics on those complaints. Instituting corrective actions for the top X amount of complaints via procedural updates and revisions. Collectors may not care and clearly many don't understand what it really can do when supported, based on the uninformed responses I've seen. It's far easier to give an opinion on a label color |
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| Post 147 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 I'm having a hard time dove-tailing your two ideas together. In one post you said that generalities aren't really helpful and asked for specifics. And I thought that post was spot on. But then you proposed ISO 9000 certification as kind of a general fix for everything? Honestly I don't know enough about it to have an intelligent conversation on the subject. But the way you describe it...it's like a system of doing things that forces you to get it right? It sounds like a computer from a Twilight Zone episode. I'm just having a tough time with the idea that there truly is such a thing and that it would be something small companies could afford? | ||
| Post 148 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbayMafia ISO can be very beneficial to companies that take it seriously; and not viewed as red tape. When it's viewed as red tape, that's when its seen a money making venture as some have alluded to above. But when it's taken positively and it is supported by management and it's workers, it is a major positive for improvement. At a very simplistic high level it means we must have procedures for everything that we do and we stick to those procedures. If I may focus in the specific area of procedures involving customer complaints because that's where we were earlier discussing quality, errors, and accuracy. My vision would be enacting a complaint system whereby a complaint comes in to CBCS; gets logged and tabulated. In my vision, over the course of months, a pareto chart of the top <example> 3 complaints could be looked into for Root Cause. Then corrective actions put into place which may be a procedural change, or additional training for an employee, or perhaps an error in design in the slab/packaging. The point is this is done through metrics and data; not emotionally. And this process of self-improvement never ends. A company must find ways to determine key performance indicators that are important to the company and seek to improve upon them continually. So I see ISO more as a mission/vision rather than a notified body that just comes in and audits and takes money. That's a more literal take. And the example of customer complaints is just one area of many. I used this small example because were discussing CGC vs. CBCS complaints/errors/etc.. As to how much it costs for varying corporate sized to be certified? - I dunno. But something to look into as an investment for the future. |
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| Post 149 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111 It's probably great for companies that have large contracts with Governments or very large corporations. And now that I think it through, I'm guessing that's what ISO 9000 is really for. It's an assurance to Government Agencies and Large Corporations who write huge contracts and are heavily dependent on their suppliers. An assurance that those suppliers are not going to fail them or embarrass them in some catastrophic way. But I think putting shackles like this on a small boot-strapping company with zero guaranteed contracts would drown them rather quickly. |
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| Post 150 • IP flag post | ||
 It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ISO 9000 is a systems management program. It was developed to have consistency of performance and results within any particular industry. If you ordered parts from an ISO certified company, there was intrinsic confidence that the company was following internationally accepted procedures, using quality materials, demonstrating competency in all areas including production time. Once established, this certification became the "entry ticket" if you wanted to be a supplier to certain government agencies, or to supply other corporations. No certification, no business for you. But this is usually a business to business concept. The average consumer has no such requirement or expectation, and it would mean nothing to most. Also, it is to keep you on par with all the other members of your manufacturing or service industry. In this case, that would be a total of 3. That's how many grading and encapsulation companies are out there. It's a niche market, not a globalized industry. There is no need for such a formal certification. There is a need to follow the concepts of management systems like ISO 9000. And there are several good ones, implemented by auto companies, tech companies, machine shops, restaurants, etc. Many are proprietary, and some successful programs are in place because the company has excellent, trained management and substantial resources to implement the plan. I'm sure CBCS is aware of its shortcomings. I don't doubt that they are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. They can see the same issues that we see, even more clearly. I suspect there are improvements that we are unaware of. Sometimes it's a matter of how far you have come as opposed to where you are. It's still a young company experiencing growing pains. The same is true for the company across the street. The entire business is being invented as they go. We are all in a hurry for perfection, but it takes time to react, especially if unexpected events change your original plans. But good management can prevail and show extraordinary results. I hope to see some of those improvements in the near future. |
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| Post 151 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by chester15 @chester15 That's what I'm realizing as it gets explained, ISO 9000 a key part of globalization. I'm assuming the ISO 9000 certification by the suppliers means that GM or Ford could buy brake pads from India or China without incurring liability in the case of a failure. Whereas sourcing from a non-certified company (even domestically) might open them up to lawsuits and accusations of cutting costs at the risk of consumer safety. |
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| Post 152 • IP flag post | ||
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It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yes, that is likely the big feature, and just getting everyone on the same page. As @Nuffsaid111 points out, the processes involved, if properly implemented, can draw attention to roadblocks, failures, and even opportunities. There are alternative programs of varying complexities that try to achieve similar results, on a smaller scale. There were some good management systems in place throughout the world before ISO became the standard. Basically ISO organized all the best features and documented what they should be for best processes to be in place. |
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| Post 153 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There's a saying in business that it comes down to 3 things...Quality, Price and Speed. You can have 2 but you can't have all 3. Well, when compared to the industry standard of CGC, CBCS is actually that rare company that is currently providing all 3. We can argue the aesthetics of the label but I don't hear anyone saying that their overall product quality is lower than the competition. The price is demonstrably lower than the competition. The speed is demonstrably quicker than the competition. The only thing that keeps them from currenlty being the industry standard is a 14 year head start by their only competitor. If they don't get distracted from those 3 key things, I have no doubt that CBCS will gain significant ground...and Time is the necessary ingredient for that to happen. | ||
| Post 154 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbayMafia @chester15 Great discussion guys. Appreciated when an individual attempts to put forward a specific new idea simply to generate thoughtful discussion of respondents for the pros and cons of said specific(s). Too often on this forum I see folks immediately toss aside potential ideas on a topic as stupid, dumb, silly, or "no one cares"; and that is very unfortunate, short sighted, and does not foster an individual to post innovative ideas.  And who knows - Establishment of a packaging procedure per ISO, and training packaging employees may even prevent something like this picture from happening again as clearly this CGC employee was not trained properly and/or did not read the procedure for not mixing comics and magazines in the same box.  |
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| Post 155 • IP flag post | ||
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