Is discussing CGC allowed? 14404

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
So you are going to write CBCS and ask them if "they are equally unscrupulous like CGC"? Good luck with that.

No I sent the email in the picture before your post. Their response reveals whether they are, not an answer to the explicit question

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
CGC OWNS their forum, and therefore can do with it whatever they think is in their best interests. You have some kind of "conspiracy theory" going on about their practices, and their ethics. You are undermining their business, so off you go. It's that simple.

It's not a conspiracy, several members in unison admitted that an employee once revealed in an interview that paper age is factored. I trust their members, who have been there over 15 years. If you don't find it unethical that this is not disclosed on the page CGC directs the public to view their grading criteria, then you simply do not grasp what's ethical or not

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
Same will happen here.

What is it that you think will happen here? You mean if the reply I get from CBCS in the email I sent that you bizarrely ignored when asking me what email I was going to send indicates they are being unethical and I point it out I will be banned? Are you a moderator or something, or speaking for others?

4 years ago

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia I also find that when slabbing TAT's ... What're TAT's? Edit: NVM figured it's turnaround times
	4 years ago	Post 27 • IP flag post

I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. 29.71K	29.71K flanders private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Keep in mind CBCS is extremely busy at the moment. If you don't get a response it doesn't mean they're ignoring you, it means they have thousands of other things to do that are far higher priority.
	4 years ago	Post 28 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Thanks I'm in no rush this is just for science
	4 years ago	Post 29 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by adamlui It increases profit because the more inflated the grades the more desirable the grading service causing revenue to increase without the typical increase in expenditures (since it costs nothing to dictate policy to waged employees) I think it's fair to consider grade inflation without accusation. I've always assumed that natural business bias could help the grades of the larger customers who have a relationship with the company and are in daily communication. When I buy a CGC graded book from a dealer that I know is a large submitter, I will inspect it more critically. But until a whistle-blower comes out and says that it was company policy, I have to assume that it's nothing more than a natural bias...if it's there at all.
	4 years ago	Post 30 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I didn't get what you meant by it's fair to consider grade inflation without accusation sorry, you mean it's fair to consider inflated grades were result of bias not policy so don't accuse them? Because several long-term members (15+ years) revealed that a company representative admitted it was the result of policy (to give higher grade to older books) not bias, so it's not an "accusation"
	4 years ago	Post 31 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	An opinion was formed that not revealing this policy publicly was unethical, no accusations were made because long-time members of the site itself agreed that it was policy
	4 years ago	Post 32 • IP flag post

It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors. 2.2K	2.2K chester15 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 9
	@adamlui - CGC tells you almost NOTHING about what determines a grade, and they like it that way, just for the reasons that you bring up. They don't need people nit-picking, dissecting, or analyzing their methods. You pay for a grade, they grade it. If you don't like it, don't believe it's correct, don't like the slab, whatever, too bad. Don't send stuff in, don't buy their finished product, stay away. If you believe a company that is incompetent is inherently unethical, well, that's fine. They can do what they want - it's a free country. This isn't some government agency with oversight where you can complain to your congressman. You're tilting at windmills.
	4 years ago	Post 33 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	They said it was revealed in some interview but no one linked me to it, they have no reason to lie about it they referred to the employee using the same nickname as if he was truly interviewed by the mods or something
	4 years ago	Post 34 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	@adamlui I'm not disagreeing with you, I suspect there is grade inflation that would encourage the most important customers to send very valuable books to CGC. I even believe you that insiders have discussed it in private conversations. But until someone with first-hand information actually goes on public record, it's more rumor and hearsay than anything else. Which doesn't make it untrue, it just makes it unprovable.
	4 years ago	Post 35 • IP flag post

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
@adamlui - CGC tells you almost NOTHING about what determines a grade, and they like it that way, just for the reasons that you bring up.

This is simply untrue. Both of the major comic grading services list pages upon pages of high-level criteria for what determines a grade.

CBCS's can be found here: https://www.cbcscomics.com/comics-grading-scale
CGC's can be found here: https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/grading-scale/

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
They don't need people nit-picking, dissecting, or analyzing their methods.

WDYM they don't "need" you lost me there. I'm a owner of their products I have the right to analyze my vendors as I so please. Grading is about the customer's needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
You pay for a grade, they grade it. If you don't like it, don't believe it's correct, don't like the slab, whatever, too bad. Don't send stuff in, don't buy their finished product, stay away.

I don't do any of these things, how come you're telling me as someone who doesn't do any of those things what seems to be your limited view of having no recourse when your comics are misgraded (quite unfortunate for you I must say but you have great recourse in actuality, you can re-grade it or even expose a service if something unethical is going on)

@chester15 Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
If you believe a company that is incompetent is inherently unethical, well, that's fine. They can do what they want - it's a free country. This isn't some government agency with oversight where you can complain to your congressman. You're tilting at windmills.

Not sure why you're telling me what's "fine" or not, I don't exactly need your permission for the email I already sent to their CEO hinting at my intentions to make a video on my Verified YT channel and share the bizarre incident with members of the press (contacts acquired from campaigning against my state's governor for mishandling COVID for nearly a year)

4 years ago

I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie. 29.71K	29.71K flanders private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia @adamlui I'm not disagreeing with you, I suspect there is grade inflation that would encourage the most important customers to send very valuable books to CGC. I even believe you that insiders have discussed it in private conversations. But until someone with first-hand information actually goes on public record, it's more rumor and hearsay than anything else. Which doesn't make it untrue, it just makes it unprovable. @adamlui With this in mind, what you should do is move to Florida (assuming you don't already live there) and apply for a job at CGC. Play it cool for several years until you climb the CGC corporate ladder and then you can disclose all of their secrets.
	4 years ago	Post 37 • IP flag post

It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors. 2.2K	2.2K chester15 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	A lot of the grading standards were derived from Overstreet Grading Definitions. Overstreet makes allowances for Golden Age. For example: "9.4 Near Mint, Bindery tears must be less than 1/16" on Silver Age and later books, although on Golden Age books bindery tears of up to 1/4" have been noted." So one employee (maybe ex-employee) made an accusation. Out of how many thousands of employees over the years?
	4 years ago	Post 38 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by chester15 If you believe a company that is incompetent is inherently unethical, well, that's fine. They can do what they want - it's a free country. @chester15 If it were actually established that a 3rd party grader was systemically grading favorably for specific customers...that would lead to some pretty serious issues in both Criminal and Civil courts. That's why I think it's important to avoid allegations without actual evidence.
	4 years ago	Post 39 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia But until someone with first-hand information actually goes on public record, it's more rumor and hearsay than anything else. Which doesn't make it untrue, it just makes it unprovable. It's already on semi-public record. The three members have been with CGC for over a decade, there is 0% chance they made up the fact that an "interview" with the employee revealed CGC increases grades for older books. Why would they lie about it? I don't think you understand, if they knew the ramifications then they would try to keep it a secret, but it's clear that I will be able to find this "interview" when I'm ready to contact the press (I like to spend some time gathering all my screenshots)
	4 years ago	Post 40 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by flanders @adamlui With this in mind, what you should do is move to Florida (assuming you don't already live there) and apply for a job at CGC. Play it cool for several years until you climb the CGC corporate ladder and then you can disclose all of their secrets. It's not a secret I don't need to join CGC an employee already posted about it on the forum, there is no conspiracy occurring if members of its own forum (including those with no gripe with me) are all saying it happened...
	4 years ago	Post 41 • IP flag post

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
For example: "9.4 Near Mint, Bindery tears must be less than 1/16" on Silver Age and later books, although on Golden Age books bindery tears of up to 1/4" have been noted."

Noted means just that, noted..

Quote:

Originally Posted by chester15
So one employee (maybe ex-employee) made an accusation. Out of how many thousands of employees over the years?

No accusations were made, simply a proud revelation that CGC will give you a higher grade if the book is older, I don't know why this is so complicated to you

4 years ago

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Accusation implies something bad, they're not saying it's bad they're proud of it
	4 years ago	Post 43 • IP flag post

It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors. 2.2K	2.2K chester15 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Wow, this is an expose! (sorry, don't know how to make the accent over the last e) No one cares. And by the way, you were the one who accused me early on that I do not "grasp what is ethical or not". I'll decide what my own ethical standards involve, not you. Bottom line is WE DON'T CARE. About your outrage, nor about your verified Y-Tube channel.
	4 years ago	Post 44 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	But if you don't care why do you keep tagging me I'm so confused
	4 years ago	Post 45 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	And of course you decide your own ethical standards, I simply pointed out after you tagged me as someone who doesn't care you don't grasp them to think it's ethical to not reveal to the public that a grade is higher for older books
	4 years ago	Post 46 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Also how come you speak for everyone with the "WE" either you or someone else did that earlier, too Edit: NVM it was you again lol
	4 years ago	Post 47 • IP flag post

It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors. 2.2K	2.2K chester15 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia Quote: Originally Posted by chester15 If you believe a company that is incompetent is inherently unethical, well, that's fine. They can do what they want - it's a free country. @chester15 If it were actually established that a 3rd party grader was systemically grading favorably for specific customers...that would lead to some pretty serious issues in both Criminal and Civil courts. That's why I think it's important to avoid allegations without actual evidence. I agree that there can be no favoritism, but that is not the point of contention here. CGC must be equally incompetent to all customers. I do believe their recent grading traumas are due to not having enough help. When there are signing bonuses at all levels, that's a clue. About factoring in age of paper, don't know, don't care.
	4 years ago	Post 48 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	BTW my mention of my verified YouTube channel that seems to have upset you was in direct response to you tagging me to tell me to essentially "deal with it." Everyone deals with things in their own ways. I repeat, you may think there's no recourse when bad things happen but not everyone is in the same position as you.
	4 years ago	Post 49 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Also if you don't care then don't offer crass suggestions I didn't even ask for, just to be angered when my reply reveals I actually have more recourse than you thought / are used to yourself
	4 years ago	Post 50 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by adamlui The three members have been with CGC for over a decade, there is 0% chance they made up the fact that an "interview" with the employee revealed CGC increases grades for older books Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought it was about increasing grades for specific clients. As far as grading older books more favorably, yeah I assume that's typical and I'm ok with it as long as it's consistent from one client to the next.
	4 years ago	Post 51 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbayMafia Quote: Originally Posted by adamlui The three members have been with CGC for over a decade, there is 0% chance they made up the fact that an "interview" with the employee revealed CGC increases grades for older books Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought it was about increasing grades for specific clients. As far as grading older books more favorably, yeah I assume that's typical and I'm ok with it as long as it's consistent from one client to the next. Increasing for clients will be a tough thing to prove but doing it to specific-era books without disclosing it publicly is bad for collecting because collectors will look at the page that publicly lists the criteria and not see age factor being mentioned anywhere, then when they resell it lose money due to this deceptive practice if the buyer is more privy to the policy from being a member of a proprietary board from ten years ago
	4 years ago	Post 52 • IP flag post

Collector 44	44 adamlui private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	But the financial incentive is just too great for them to publicly disclose little things like that which increase grade for all customers, knowing no one who likes money would complain
	4 years ago	Post 53 • IP flag post

It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors. 2.2K	2.2K chester15 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by adamlui Quote: Originally Posted by chester15 For example: "9.4 Near Mint, Bindery tears must be less than 1/16" on Silver Age and later books, although on Golden Age books bindery tears of up to 1/4" have been noted." Noted means just that, noted.. Quote: Originally Posted by chester15 So one employee (maybe ex-employee) made an accusation. Out of how many thousands of employees over the years? No accusations were made, simply a proud revelation that CGC will give you a higher grade if the book is older, I don't know why this is so complicated to you "Noted" means found, or observed, in this grade. A different standard for the older book. Why would Overstreet even bring it up if it wasn't meant as an exception? "Both of the major comic grading services list pages upon pages of high-level criteria for what determines a grade." There's like one sentence for each grade on the CGC page you reference, which I had already viewed to make sure it hadn't changed from it's Spartan approach. This isn't complicated. The only one who cares about your "revelation" is you. Most people know that GA books get a bit of a nod in some aspects. I'm sure GA collectors would like to have high grade books, but if 8.0 was the cream of the crop, it doesn't seem too exciting. So maybe it's graded on a bit of a curve. The dollar values will follow the same curve. I have a few GA books. Maybe I'll send those 4.0's in and scoop up a few 7.5 grades while the "getting is good". Before the big revelation hits prime time.
	4 years ago	Post 54 • IP flag post