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Comics Modern Age

A possibility for future collectible digital comics?14121

COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user



While this would hardly be the place to get excited for a digital future for comics, I nevertheless thought this NewsHour report was interesting and I couldn’t help but think about the possible applications for a future of digital comics collectibility.

The report is about a sale of a piece of digital art at Christie’s for a whopping $69 Million. The report uses the sale as a jumping off point for discussing NFTs or Non Fungible Tokens, basically a unique digital file stored on a blockchain, the same technology that makes digital currencies like Bitcoin possible.

I’ll admit it is a little over my head but I couldn’t help but envision the technology used to create a limited supply of digital comics which could create a market for digital comics as collectibles.

Again, this isn’t something I’m chomping at the bit for and I doubt anyone here is either but with regular rumors of “So-and-so publisher is going to stop publishing physical comics” it can be interesting to ponder how our grandchildren may be collecting.
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Collector Frontier2Xterra private msg quote post Address this user
Just threw up in my mouth a little.
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Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
I've been tracking this NFT / digital art topic.
Do I think it's nuts? I do.
But I thought encasing comics in plastic 20 years ago was nuts.
I think I still do, until I see the values. Then all of a sudden I don't care about my own opinion

On a side note: I noticed DC is promoting virtual Batman statues.
Do I think that's loony toons?
I do.
But then..... the value.... hmmmm..... I may just have to change my opinion.
Today's nuts is tomorrows $$$$$
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Collector jake private msg quote post Address this user
It's kind of like gamers who spend thousands of dollars on a unique character, item, or vehicle. I have a buddy who bought a one of kind spacecraft for $2,000, so I know it happens. Who am I to judge, that is his thing, what he finds desirable. Now for the collectability of crytocomics, let's look at what makes an analog comic valuable and compare/comment:

- Copies Printed - Since it is NFT, it is one of a kind (mathematically)
- Age - timestamp, which probably figures into its NFT DNA (so the ones created now are the Golden Age)
- Low Issue Number - creator can create limited issues and ensure limitedness with NFT
- Grade - Hmmm, hard to figure out at this time, but maybe looking at the byte level at file completeness and comparing it to its original hash
- Popular Characters - should be the same as analog, right?
- First Appearances - ditto
- Popular Writer/Artist - ditto

This is not a complete list, but enough for discussion...
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Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
I think each NFT has it's own terms of ownership etc too right?? like each subsequent time it changes hands the creator could be entitled to a % based on the contract.

For creators I think this is a great win!
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuffsaid111
Do I think it's nuts? I do.
But I thought encasing comics in plastic 20 years ago was nuts.


Yeah, looking at how much things change over time and how fast things change now (our phones nowadays were the things of science fiction not that long ago) you have to imagine that some things we are used to may be unrecognizable in the coming decades when the hobby is carried on by people who are growing up in a more and more digital world.


@jake All great points. I imagine some elements of collectability may change. I’m not super familiar with file duplication and degradation so who knows if condition/grade will have an analog in a hypothetical crypto-comic market. Additionally, I believe every transaction in a blockchain is tracked so maybe people will desires crypto-comics that simply have not moved in a long time.

As a corollary to your your first point about copies printed, I was not well aware but it does seem like these NFTs could be lost or made inaccessible as reported in this article on lost Bitcoin.


I also wonder if the technology never comes to comics specifically, I can see it making an impact on digital comics artists being able to sell their original digital art in the way original pages are sold now
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Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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I think there is definitely a future in NFTs, but not sure if this is it. Although @dielinfinite’s point about original art is one of the first things that came to mind when I first heard about the technology.
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Collector IronMan private msg quote post Address this user
My initial reaction is much the same as Frontier2Xterra's. But as is usually the situation here others have posted interesting and thought provoking comments. The linked article is interesting.

It doesn't push me in the least to desire to "own" such digital works or creations. Ultimately it seems a dumb idea to own art that only really exists as computer code. But dumb money is still real money and I'm not going to criticize what others want to collect.
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Collector HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user
“Fart Noise”
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Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
I just prefer collecting and owning tangible things.

I stream movies and TV all the time but those movies that are really important to me - the ones that I really love enough to own - I buy on disc.

For comics, I like owning a book, pulling it out of a box and checking it out, slabbed or raw. I especially like raw books. I like the feel of the book in my hands. I love the slightly acidic smell of the old newsprint as I read through and admire the artwork and get engrossed in the story. That's why I'll never slab most of my collection.

But I also know this is a real thing and that, as more and more entrepreneurs get behind it, the crypto movement in all of its applications will really get legs.

One thing in the article that is stated worries me and always does whenever I hear or read it:




Anytime that I hear or read that something is impossible to do, it seems like someone comes along to prove that's its not impossible. Making a statement like that is almost like issuing a challenge.

But, to each his own.
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Collector Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWeeB1967
Anytime that I hear or read that something is impossible to do, it seems like someone comes along to prove that's its not impossible. Making a statement like that is almost like issuing a challenge.


I gotta agree there.
I'm surprised just a simple screen capture wouldn't work but maybe it's been built in where screen captures can't be done.
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
DC Comics Tells Artists to Stay Out of NFT Business or Else

clickable text
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Collector xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
I know some artists are already doing NFT for original digital art. The "one and only one" aspect makes me think it won't make it to comics themselves (would Marvel/DC/whoever want to sell literally one copy of a comic?), but pages and covers and whatnot, maybe.
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COLLECTOR dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user
@GAC That’s a very interesting development. I wonder how being digital changes the equation for DC. I wonder if they simply see an opportunity to get cut in on the action while physical sales are too difficult to enforce and too engrained into the culture of comics and collecting.

The article on Jose Delgo within @GAC’s article linked to is interesting as well. He has basically sold digital prints either as limited or unlimited editions (though the article confusingly calls them special and open limited respectively). Unfortunately, I think the insane amount money being thrown around might be overshadowing the potential and some of the practical applications in an increasingly digital world.
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Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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Technically, anyone can view, download and archive these pieces. The Non-Fungible Token (NFT) is a type of “Certificate of Authenticity” (COA) if you will, that keeps a record of the “true” owner of the piece using blockchain technology.

Moreover, these pieces are not exactly “one-of-a-kind”, creators can choose to issue thousands of them (think comic books) and often the most valuable are the ones with the lowest/most significant “serial number”.
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Collector xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
I guess it's in trading cards now? I'm still not a fan.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31164860/dapper-labs-creators-nba-top-shot-get-305m-funding
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Forum Mascot Comicninja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
As cool as this would be to see, I'm not sure how i feel about this. I love being able to go to a comic shop and brose through back issues or check out what's new on the shelf. I really love the idea of being able to send in a physical copy of a book to CBCs for grading.( I'm not sending books to cgc) Lastly, I'm over the moon about pick up a copy of a book i love out of my box and holding it in my hand. There are still bookstores across the nation and even the world that sell actual published works and there are still authors who are writing them regardless of wither or not you can listen to it in audio form, kindle etc.

I'm still unsure how the hobby would continue even if all the comics were digitized.
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Forum Mascot Comicninja0215 private msg quote post Address this user
@HeinzDad lol!!
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Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkonk
I guess it's in trading cards now? I'm still not a fan.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31164860/dapper-labs-creators-nba-top-shot-get-305m-funding


Yep. On the Topps website, they started selling Godzilla card packs just today, I think. Regular packs and Ultimate packs. The Regular packs contain real, tangible, cards in the traditional sense. The Ultimate packs are NFT packs that allow collectors to get extremely rare "cards" that aren't available in the Regular packs. So, if I want those rare "cards," I have to go that route.

I know I'm looking like the old-fashioned "get off my lawn" guy here, but I just don't see the attraction. If I like the look of one of those super rare "cards," I'll just screenshot it. Bam! Now I have a copy and it cost me nothing.
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Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm sorry, I misread... both packs are NFT packs. The Ultimate pack just contains more "cards."

With that said, my last paragraph still applies. I just don't see the attraction of collecting a "nothing."
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Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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Check out NBA Top Shot. They are selling “moments” and they are not unique, several “copies” of the same “moment” are being produced.

Some LeBron James “moments” are selling for $250,000.

https://nbatopshot.com/listings/p2p/a494c64e-9e93-418c-8934-f331ee47a39b+768166e3-f4bb-4395-9b48-4c545aebc95c?
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Collector DWeeB1967 private msg quote post Address this user
@CaptainCanuck I just don't get it.
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Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
@DWeeB1967

Same.
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Collector the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user

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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user
I think NFT's are not only cool as hell, but also the future of collecting. These are going to be huge.

When I first read about the NBA "moments," I thought people were nuts. Then I saw the Beeble artwork sell at Christie's for $169 million (and change) and that stopped me cold. What the actual F?? With that wake-up call I really started thinking hard about this stuff, trying to wrap my head around it.

And I'm still trying. But I get it now. Much more than I did at first blush.

Collecting things has ALWAYS been irrational. We're just used to it. Hey, this 150 year old Mark Twain book that's falling apart and has some guy's signature on the first page is worth $50,000? And the brand new one, with great production values and white pages published last week is worth ... 10 bucks? Well, that seems odd. You really prefer the old one? Okay, weirdo.

Think about it. Action Comics #1 is not about the art, or the story, or even the access. Anyone can get a copy, can read it online or buy a reprint. And the art and story aren't even that good. Not compared to modern artists, who are head-and-shoulders better.

Collecting comics just isn't about ANY of that. It's the thing itself. The uniqueness. The rarity. That's why a regular edition of a comic is worth $4.99 but the 1:100 cover is worth $100 or $200 (or $20 if it's Marvel), and the super-hard-to-find store variant limited to just 500 and with awesome art is worth ... well, you get the picture.

Physical collectibles have always been about the rarity and uniqueness and nostalgia and love of the artist or writer or creator and place in history. It's all those things and more. It is NOT about being able to read the story or look at the art. Because you can get better, newer versions elsewhere. Cleaner versions of the same art, the same story. Digital versions that you can read anywhere and can't be lost. Paper versions that you can lend and borrow if you want.

And now, because of blockchain and NFT's, virtual images (or text, music, video, etc.) can be JUST as unique. This never existed before. It's a brand-new asset class.

And I think they're cool as hell. I can't wait to see where this goes.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
@Tedsaid I use the simplified term "historical artifacts" to summarize what you are saying about collectibles. It's not perfect but I think it captures much of the details behind the value.
I tried to get an understanding of the Blockchain and it boggled my mind. Correct me if I'm wrong but what I did takeaway is that the Blockchain is necessary to secure the ownership authenticity of NFT's (Non Fungible Tokens) and there is a huge energy consumption required to maintain the Blockchain? That part seems odd to me, that we would use an increasing portion of the worlds energy supply to maintain authenticity of ownership on intangible items. Odd in a Sci-Fi "future society of decadence" kind of way. I do love the idea of rich people putting Hundreds of Millions of dollars back into the economy and taking nothing of material value in return, just electronic artifacts. The same way that I've always loved the idea that a $50 million painting in a rich persons home took nothing material away from the earths resources (unlike building a yacht or mansion). But if there is an ongoing resource cost associated with NTF's, that would kind of negate the idea that they are taking nothing from society in return.
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Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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Wait for the variant NFTs. An artist’s piece sells for 100k, then he adds a “yellow dot” to the corner and that one sells for $150k. Everyone anticipates the next variant and a bidding war ensues for the new “blue dot” variant.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
These are images of Bitcoin Mining Farms. From what I understand they require massive amounts of electricity and they earn Bitcoin by providing the backbone to the Blockchain?

https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin+mining+farm&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=657&ei=71xlYMjIHtev0PEP4--LqAk&oq=bitcoin+mining&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgCMgUIABCxAzIFCAAQsQMyBQgAELEDMgUIABCxAzICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADoICAAQsQMQgwE6BAgAEB46BggAEAoQGFDyBFixH2DuNGgBcAB4AIABjQGIAYIKkgEEMTMuMpgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img

When you think of all of the earths resources that are being consumed, not just to power these mines but also to build and transport the equipment to the land that they are taking up...it boggles the mind. Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but this looks to me like a way for those with access to resources to get richer by taking up more and more of societies resources. NFT's seem to me like a game being played among the very rich. That's typically been true of all high-end collectibles but I'm not sure the collectibles game ever took up the earths resources in this way before. In a world claiming to want to be more equitable, I don't see how this is a step in that direction. But I'm open to having my opinion changed, I don't know all that much about the subject and I understand that the Blockchain wasn't created just to serve this NFT purpose.
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Corrector CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user
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Mining does seem inherently bad for the environment. Also, a lot of these crypto mining farms are purposely situated in colder climates. The processors generate a lot of heat and cooling them down is just an added expense.
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Masculinity takes a holiday. EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user
I guess I have to realize that all server farms have taken up these resources, long before bitcoin mining. And I assume the Blockchain serves a much broader purpose that just providing continuous encryption security and bitcoin transaction management. But right now it seems that the cost of running the blockchain is being payed for by the arbitrary creation of an artificial currency. If one were to purchase an NFT, is it likely that somewhere down the road they will be required to pay a monthly maintenance fee for access to the Blockchain that secures their ownership authenticity? It seems like there could be an unintended trap down the road, you own a $5,000 digital collectible, but now you need to pay $25 per month to maintain the security on it.
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