CGC Reholdering Gone Wrong14048
 Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
. Click Here for Link to YouTube Video Here is a video about a CGC reholdering gone wrong. Customer submits a Golden Age Whiz Comics CGC graded 9.0 for reholdering, but is told the condition of comic no longer matches the given grade. CCS pressing services are offered in order to try and restore the grade, but the subsequent pressing effort inadvertently detaches the cover. Owner is offered an apology and $450 credit. |
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| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
| "Reholstering!" :o If any slabber wants to give me MORE than the 9.2 value for my 9.0 Fawcett common, I'll take it all day long. CGC handled this fine, and I'm sure this is very much a *man bites dog* type of situation, ratcheted up by a horrible long-winded fear-mongering rant of a YT train wreck vid. |
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| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @CaptainCanuck not sure I should be watching this right before I go to sleep but here goes... Thanks for the summary, I didn't care to hear the guy in the video rambling for more than a few minutes. My gut tells me the CGC slab caused puddling or some other defect and the CGC tried to blame it on someone else. There's likely more to the story that I certainly have no interest in hearing so I can maintain my prejudice against CGC. |
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| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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SidTheSquid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Not shocked that a book got damaged while in a case. Not shocked at CGC offering a credit to someone who, if they were me, would never want to use their services again as an act of "goodwill". What I am shocked by is, CGC re-grading a book (without being asked to) that was sent in for re-holdering. I thought if the case wasn't damaged, the grade stands? Really curious how CBCS would have handled this. Do they re-evaluate books that are sent in for re-holdering when the case shows no sign of damage? |
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| Post 4 • IP flag post | ||
 Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SidTheSquid This is my concern as well. Especially as I have several books currently on their way to CGC for reholdering. |
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| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Seems like there are a few aspects to the story. Why did the person send this book for reholdering? We don't know because the guy in the video isn't the owner. If the owner damaged it and knew it was damaged, then it sort of feels like they got what they deserved (at least with the regrading). If it was a creep engine slab and the owner wanted it out, that puts more of the onus on CGC from the start. If the owner just wanted a new slab or label or something, I would be pretty disappointed to find out that it got regraded lower if it were me. Should books be given a look when sent for reholdering? I guess I'm not against that in general. Presumably they aren't giving it a full regrade, because then they would charge you for that, so you aren't going to 'lose out' because your 9.0 is now a 8.5. They'll only see something obvious. Then you're back to the first point as to what happened to the book and who might be responsible. What should happen if a book no longer matches its grade? Giving the option to send it back raw, grade it, or press it seems reasonable. Again, if the damage to the book was CGC's fault somehow (they dropped it in their facility, or it was in one of their terrible slabs), then they should offer to pay for it somehow. I'm not shocked that they didn't. What should happen when pressing goes wrong? This is the most egregious part to me. Sure, things happen, but popping the cover off the book strikes me as a big mistake. The book started as a 9 so it couldn't have been brittle; my limited understanding of pressing says that they must have just screwed up. In terms of making it up, I would hope that the $450 or whatever is the proper difference in price between what the book was and what it is now. Offering more to make up for any sentimental value and the general stupidness of the mistake would also be reasonable. I'm not surprised that they offered it as store credit, because that's what many stores do, but that's always struck me as obnoxious. "We just screwed up, here's an excuse to shop with us again! By the way, it's the only way you'll get compensation for our mistake!" I guess on the whole this story just reinforces the stories I've heard about CGC being a crummy pressing service. |
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hmmm. I'm not someone who gets stuff slabbed so I'm a little surprised that I'm defending CGC (I have no dog in this fight), but here goes. (I'd also defend CBCS if this were something they'd done.) 1) The CGC offer of credit was MORE than generous for the book. 2) When an owner decides to monkey with a 75+ year old book, stuff can happen - we're talking newsprint made for kids to read & toss. 3) Restorers can't micro-examine every book for what MIGHT go wrong if (for instance) pressing is attempted, hence the disclaimers & limit of exposure for liability. 4) This kind of occurrence is INCREDIBLY rare I'm guessing (or I'm sure we'd hear ALL about it!), so stressing out over it is like feeling the need to compile lists of evil buyers out there waiting to take advantage of postal delays. 5) Sometimes a man bites a dog, but to let it fill one's mind with worry, or feel it necessitates a Kevlar vest for your pooch? An overreaction I'm thinking. |
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| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SidTheSquid If the book was damaged after the original slabbing & the grade clearly less than originally noted, you would want CGC to grant the original grade?  Talk about something that would - and SHOULD! - create a controversy! |
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad I'm guessing that the odds you'll have any problems are about a million to one, but the fearmongering YTer linked in the OP has been surprisingly effective in rattling quite a few cages it would seem. |
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| Post 9 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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obrie2tm private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I will also add there was recently a collection of CGC Whiz comics posted individually for sale on Ebay that were all high grade, except they all had sustained moisture/water damage during storage. I can envision folks trying to submit such books for re-holdering in an attempt to maintain the grade with a new case. Not saying that is the case here; however, the need to press may suggest moisture issues with the book and perhaps adverse impacts to the structural integrity of the spine as a result. Again, not saying that is the case here, but I don't blame CGC for needing to re-assess prior to re-holdering a book. | ||
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Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @MatterEaterLad Quote: Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad This question came up during a podcast over the weekend and CBCS President @sborock confirmed that books sent in for reholdering are assessed to ensure the grade still matches the book before reholdering. Most likely, CGC has the same policy. |
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| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck I am always and have always been intrigued by choice of words and what is really meant by them in any avenue or business or even a personal relationship. So when I see the phrase "reholdering is assessed to ensure the grade matches the book" I ask myself what does that really mean? Is it just a check for damage in the existing holder? Is it a re-grade?, a partial re-grade? some kind of quick check? And what is a quick check anyway? Vague words and phrases bother me because then I become the uninformed consumer. I have a number of Red label verified sig slabs considering for re-holder in yellow labels. In particular I have a 9.6 Hulk 181 signed. I got it, put in away, and has been in storage for 4 years with no light; no shaking; no movement; climate controlled, etc. The absolute LAST thing i want is when I get it reholdered to have someone look and "assess" that it should have been given it a 9.4 last time around. Sorry, but Money talks here for me... and that's just the way it is. So I ask CBCS exactly what is "assess" in definitive clear terms? |
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Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 That is my wording. A poor attempt to recollect what I heard on the podcast. Just want to point out that the phrase is not verbatim from the Big Guy himself. |
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Gotcha. My bad. But the point remains relevant when we (the consumer) deal with vague euphemisms and/or terms that lack defintion |
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Collector
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SidTheSquid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me Doesn't seem generous to me at all. Seems completely worthless if the person being offered it does not want the services being credited in the first place. And for a company like CGC, that's raking it in, they can do better. Money to spend how the customer wants for starters, not the opportunity to do more business with and become more entwined with CGC. Quote: Originally Posted by xkonk I think a reasonable option might be, look the book over in the case and if it looks like the grade might be different, DON'T crack it, and send it back to the customer. Once they cracked it, that's on the grading company and really speaks to the protective qualities of their product. But in any case, the grading companies should be forthright in what re-holdering entails and that you do potentially risk losing your grade by sending the book in, damaged case or not. |
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Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nuffsaid111 Here is a link to the podcast: https://youtu.be/neql6eLOUrA The issue is addressed by @sborock at around the 29:29 mark. |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Murm private msg quote post Address this user | |
Not sure when this started but now when you submit for reholder at CGC you have to agree that if the book goes to a lower grade then it's on you. I recently sent in a rather expensive book for reholder and I'm sweating it out.  |
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| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
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I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers). Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CaptainCanuck Watched it. This helps. So it I heard "Concerns the slab was tampered with or the slab is damaged". That is appropriate for reholdering. I was worried the re-holder could involve thoughts like: "I see 2 tiny spine tics instead of the maximum 1 spine tic allowable for a 9.6". That would be a no-go for me |
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| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
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Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Murmonster Interesting, thanks. I’m sure it’s concerning to sig collectors that the inner-well could potentially “lift off” a sig. |
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| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SidTheSquid I know that's what customers might want (I wouldn't want my reholder book to come back worse than I sent it!) but I think it's bad for the hobby. If the company looks at a book in a slab and, even at a cursory glance, says "yikes, this isn't that grade any more", who other than the current owner would want the book sent back to that person with the wrong number on it? The whole point of third-party grading is to have professionals give a broadly acceptable estimate of a book's condition. Also, if someone sends a book for reholder then they're basically asking the company to crack it. Specifically, crack it and put it in a new slab. I don't see any reason a customer should expect their book to not be cracked. |
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Collector
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SidTheSquid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk You might be right on that. However the book and slab do still belong to the customer at that point. They should be in control of it. Until seeing Murmonster's screen capture, I had never heard anything from either company about the potential for a grade drop. This should be made readily understandable before someone sends in for a re-holder. I had always been under the impression that once I get the book slabbed, the grading process is over. Quote: Originally Posted by xkonk This just makes me wonder, where does the "guarantee" part come in? They're not even assuring you the book in their protective case is even the grade that it was when it was encapsulated. |
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| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| The thing that trumps all others is that the grade must accurately describe the book...even if the 3rd party grading company made an error the first time it graded the book, was damaged while inside the slab or was damaged removing the book from the slab for re-holder. The 3rd party grader will correct the grade requested by the owner or not...they kind of have to...they have an obligation to do so. Obviously, depending how it happened can result in monetary compensation to the owner. | ||
| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think you have to understand that the number on the slab represents the grade when it was slabbed. While the slab offers protection, it cannot prevent damage from UV rays, water/moisture, heat/smoke, shaking, etc. Most collectors handle and store their slabs carefully and correctly. I think it’s also safe to say some do not. And there’s also a chance that damage could occur accidentally. Always inspect a slab for visible damage and see if you agree with the grade on the slab. If for whatever reason you don’t like the way the book presents, don’t buy it. | ||
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Captain Corrector
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CaptainCanuck private msg quote post Address this user | |
| . This seems ridiculous, but I suppose technically every label should have a disclaimer like “grade on label does nothing necessarily reflect current condition of book”. |
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| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
 PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Murmonster Edit: Apparently I'm retarded. For some reason I thought it was a screenshot of CGC's disclaimer. CGC added a disclaimer about a year go. |
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| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by SidTheSquid Apparently the info is there. If it isn't readily understandable, that's usually because it wasn't read. Too much to ask of too many people, these days. I couldn't blame either company for not sending a slab back knowing the grade is no longer (subjectively) accurate. |
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me Oh, I'm sure eBay is oozing with people who would want that very thing, for very obvious reasons. The companies owe it to themselves to regrade it- Their name is on the label next to the suspect grade. I can imagine all the complaint posts/emails, "They sent this back to me when it's clearly not the same grade! What am I supposed to do, pay to ship it back AGAIN?? They just had it!" |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk Exactly. |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Siggy Oh @Siggy, you have no idea how right you are. In remote teaching college courses my wife learned that there is a segment of the students who are totally accustomed to having the instructions spoon fed to them verbally at the moment that they need them. The idea that the instructions are prepared in writing in advance and put somewhere they can find them online is driving a few of the students nuts. Funny thing is that it's not the incoming Freshmen who are complaining, is the students who have been at the school for a few years. |
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbayMafia Pretty damned scary thinking where that kind of intellectual laziness could ultimately lead- One step closer for the film Idiocracy becoming a documentary. |
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