Monthly (Comic) Book Club - March - Deaths in the life of Spider-Man14029
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So for this portion, I’m reading from another Marvel Premiere Edition. I really like the black direct market covers over the limited editions which slap a picture of one of the books’ covers, trade dress and all. Unfortunately this book doesn’t really have much in the way of bonus content like art galleries or intros/outros. It does include a later Sin-Eater story, however. I also have the story collected in the Spider-Man: Wizard Masterpiece Edition which I just replaced after gifting my previous copy to a friend that moved away. The Wizard Masterpiece editions were neat books collecting some of what they considered the greatest stories for that character plus some fun bonus materials. Not sure hey they got to ten as the back only points out five stories and even if they count individual issues the number doesn’t quite add up. They only released three: this one, X-Men, and Wolverine. I definitely would’ve loved to see some more of these released.   This is also a fun read for me because it is the first storyline featuring the Sin Eater, an incarnation of which was the villain for one of my favorite Venom mini-series, Sinner Takes All. In that story, it is revealed that Eddie’s reporting on the events of The Death of Jean DeWolff are what leas to his downfall and disgrace and eventually becoming Venom. I also really love Greg Luzniak’s artwork, especially the covers for #2 & #3. The artist change in the last two issues was really felt, even by my much younger self.  |
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I was curious about this! |
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I read a little bit of the Wikipedia article on Jean, without spoilering myself, because we really just get dropped into her life in 107. Apparently she was a consistent side-character in Marvel Team-Up for a while, but she only appeared in three Spidey issues before this arc. So I think even Amazing/Spectacular readers would need the intro in 107 because they probably didn't know her well, and she might not have gotten that much backstory in Team-Up either. |
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Wk4 (3/22-3/28): Spectacular Spider-Man 109-110  |
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| I read 109-110 back to back as well. My thoughts from the previous issues mostly continue here. This is a pretty big departure in tone from the earlier Spidey stories. I did realize my comment about all the heavy stuff being in the 80s was accidentally right - the Spectacular series started in 1976, but these issues happened smack in the middle of the 80s. I was too young to pay attention to any kind of news at the time, but I think that drugs, street violence, and policing were very topical. These two issues really try to check all the boxes. It still feels like Spider-Man is very different from the portrayal I'm used to. Maybe that's because I know more of the stories from the movies and his origin story; maybe Spidey has been a violent vigilante this whole time and I never knew. Spider-Man running around town and beating people up for information feels very out of character. Maybe that's the point to an extent though, to have Daredevil show up and remind Spidey of where his head needs to be at. The inconsistent power writing continues as well. Daredevil jumps down into a crowd and his radar sense can't handle it? How does he usually fight? Doesn't he work his way through entire buildings of ninjas? Man. Talking his way through the fight with Spider-Man makes a lot more sense, even if it's a little over-explained. Maybe it's because I've watched too many movies but I found the discussion about Stan going free to be unlikely. Is SHIELD going to step forward and publicly say that they were running PCP studies on people? And then letting them become police officers when they could become unhinged murderers? Seems like exactly the kind of thing where the shadowy government spy organization just keeps their mouths shut, or denies everything when confronted with evidence that someone else found. Despite all the complaints, I enjoyed reading the arc. Heroes that run on as long as Spidey has need to be challenged, and sometimes the challenge is philosophical as much as physical. Having Spidey himself snap to a certain extent, and need to be pulled back from going too far, is a good story idea. It's interesting to read stories written at different points in time to see how utterly apolitical it all was (haha). |
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Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk I still need to get around to reading the second half. Spidey certainly isn’t a violent vigilante but deaths in his inner circle certainly have a profound effect and for good reason. Reading the small piece in the Wizard book, it does say that the story was a “definite departure of the happy go-lucky Spidey tales of the 80’s” so perhaps issues surrounding this story were far less grim Quote: Originally Posted by dielinfinite |
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| I finished reading the last two issues and I must say that it was an intense ride. I imagine the Santa Claus burglaries will be resolved in a later story but here they work to reinforce the feeling of ever present crime, where even your home is not safe and Santa can’t be trusted. It’s also a pretty creepy visual. It kind of reminded me of the Burger King King character. I hadn’t heard of Madame Fate who Kingpin mentions before so I had to look her up. She’s not an actual character from the looks of it, just this mention and her real name is Peter David’s friend and then head of sales at Marvel. I’m a little surprised that someone hadn’t picked up the thread and fleshed out Madame Fate’s story. The joke with the window at Josie’s bar brought a welcome bit of levity to a pretty grim story. Does anyone know if the reference to Spidey searching for the Master Planner a reference to a specific issue or is it like Madame Fate and it is referencing something we don’t actually see? Venom: Sinner Takes All does a little bit of retconning around the time of this issue as apparently Eddie Brock interviews Emil Greg but the later apprehension of the real killer, at the hands of Spider-Man, is what tanks his career and reputation. The end of issue 109 is very suspenseful and incredibly visceral. Even though we find out Betty escaped the Sin-Eater’s blast, the last image we see of the shotgun tearing through the chair hots with enough force that the story could easily have taken the other option without showing anything else and it would still feel incredibly gruesome. At the start of issue 110, are those frames from old Spider-Man issues? If not, they certainly captured Ditko’s style. Spider-Man finally subduing the Sin-Eater felt appropriately brutal for what the story had been leading up to. It almost reminds me of something out of Sin City. I do like that the story acknowledges the strength disparity between Spider-Man and Daredevil when they fight and point out that the only reason Daredevil was able to subdue Spider-Man was because Spidey was angry and sloppy. It become really easy to see two guys in superhero tights and get comfortable thinking that they are equally matched. Makes me think of the old power level meters in the Marvel handbooks. After the Spidey/Daredevil fight the story steers hard into the social issues of the time, many of which are painfully relevant to this day. Aunt May’s tenant shooting the punks on the subway felt a lot like the scene from Joker where pretty much the same thing happens. A person who has been beaten down by society finally snaps and on a subway car as well. The explanation of Stan’s instability due to performance-enhancing drug research at the hands of SHIELD made him feel a lot like Nuke from the end of Daredevil’s Born Again storyline, which coincidentally began the month after this issue was released. It does feel a little strange for Daredevil to jump into a fight and immediately get overwhelmed. Granted, we’re usually shown the opposite where Daredevil’s abilities are heightened to an absurd degree. Like in Miller’s run where Daredevil is looking for someone in the city but has no idea where to start so he climbs up on a random building and listens real hard until he can pick up their voice and fonds them that way. Regardless, throwing out Spidey’s real name felt like cheap manipulation on Daredevil’s part and afterwards he does get a bit preachy. The story ended a little too cheerfully for the tone carried by the rest of the story with DD and Spidey having a chat over some coffee |
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I thought that was funny too. It also demonstrates how Daredevil and Spidey are taking different approaches in this arc, but I always enjoy the irony. I don't know about the Master Planner from the comics, but a little googling suggests it was an alias that Doc Ock used. I wonder what that story was like, given how we saw him in the Amazing issues. |
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| Wk5 (3/29-4/4): Amazing Fantasy #15 Spider-Man vs Wolverine Amazing Spider-Man #400    |
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| I forgot there were more books this month. Thanks for staying on top of it! | ||
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| @xkonk It was a five week month so we have some bonus issues | ||
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| I cranked through AF15 last night. It seems almost silly to read, since the origin story has been done so many times (as pointed out in Into the Spiderverse), but there are some good bits to hook onto. Peter is described as a wallflower, and it's easy to think of him as introverted, but he tries to ask a girl out and he invites people to the science demo. He's actually more outgoing than I think he sometimes gets credit for, and the costume just gives him extra license to act that way. He's also kind of angry about his unpopularity, and you can really see an alternate universe where he goes the other way, like the recent What If Peter became the Punisher story. He could have become an "I'll show them!" sort of mad scientist or a more grizzled antihero (maybe like we saw in the DeWolff arc), but instead we got the Peter who held onto Uncle Ben's "with great power comes great responsibility". That version seems to have worked out pretty well. |
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| Spider-Man’s origin is so iconic and well-known but I hadn’t read the story in AF15 myself. I’m very familiar with certain panels or pages but reading it whole is a bit of a different experience. For one, I know, as an idea, that Amazing Fantasy is an anthology book with several short stories but Spider-Man is so popular that it can be easy to forget that his origin was not an issue unto itself. In Amazing Fantasy 15 it is a short two part story among several others. I do think the shorter format does hinder the story slightly as you don’t have too much time to develop the relationships, particularly between Uncle Ben and Peter. We do see that May and Ben are Peter’s loving, doting caretakers but they aren’t really developed beyond that. As a result, we understand why Peter is angry at Ben’s death but I don’t think we feel it as much as we should. I can definitely understand why most adaptations tend to flesh out Peter’s relationship with his Aunt and Uncle, typically within the context of Peter’s teenage angst and growing pains. We do see the angst in the issue, but we don’t really see May and Ben having to deal with it as his non-parent caregivers. They just shower the boy with love. One thing I’d gotten used to seeing so was surprised to find it missing was the fact that we don’t actually see either Ben’s death or the events leading into it. I imagine it might be a Comics Code thing. In recent depictions, Peter is usually there to see his Uncle die and in those last moments leaves Peter with those famous words that “With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility.” Instead, it reminds me a lot more of Jean DeWolff where Peter arrives and they’re just dead. I think the later story was able to convey the emotion better but there is a helplessness in the approach where our hero doesn’t even have an opportunity to even fail at stopping something from happening; that there are some things, like the randomness of crime, that are just so far beyond their control that they actually have no influence on them. I think the issue also establishes Peter’s temper in his response to Uncle Ben’s death. Again, it is a totally understandable reaction but we’ve seen a couple times already that in the face of a certain type of tragedy, Peter’s first instinct isn’t to seek solace or reassurance but lash out angrily. That is what happened here. Instead of comforting his Aunt May and letting the police capture the killer, Peter goes off to do it himself. Once Peter tracks down the killer and discovers that its the same burglar that he failed to stop, Peter seems almost literally crushed by his guilt. First weeping at the realization, almost like blood being crushed from a stone and then in the last frame where Spider-Man is the smallest thing in it. I think the issue might establish the first time Peter’s felt guilty about anything. Throughout the story it seems like Peter is always trying to get something, be it a date, or money, or fame but you don’t get the feeing that he’s burdened with expectations or responsibilities so he would have nothing to fee guilty about. Until he finally does. Speaking of responsibility, I was also surprised to see the famous quote wasn’t uttered by anyone in the story itself. It is mentioned by Stan Lee in the last couple of sentences as a lesson for Spider-Man as much as for the audience. There are some interesting videos on the about the origins of Spider-Man. I thought this one was pretty interesting, discussing the character’s relationship with horror comics This one also discusses this story, particularly the art, though I really don’t care for the Bob Ross gimmick they employ I have to imagine every collector has some reprint of this comic in their collection. I’d like to think I’ll own an original some day but the way prices are going up that may be a dragon I’ll be chasing for a while. For this week, I read the story from the recent facsimile edition but I also have the story collected in an omnibus and surely more than one trade. The best one in my collection though is probably this one, signed by the Man!  |
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| I read Spider-Man versus Wolverine last night. I've had a copy for a while but hadn't actually read it. I don't think I liked it overall. Spider-Man feels like an odd addition, like he's out of place the whole time. Admittedly, that's explicit in the story, but it still makes for an odd choice. It's basically a classic Wolverine spy-mysteries-of-the-past story and they throw Spidey in the mix. Comparing it to the other stories we read this month, it's much less effective at showing Spidey's response to death. Like, he stays in Germany because of Ned's death but there isn't the same reaction and soul-searching as when Captain Stacy, Gwen, or Jean die. He doesn't go into a rage like with Gwen or Jean. He's more upset by killing Charlie, and I would certainly be upset too, but Ned had been in the Spidey comics for a couple decades. I also thought that Spidey's characterization in the fights was off. Spider-Man is not a killer in the same mold as Wolverine, or even a brawler in that sense, but he's been around the block a few times. Just in the few comics we read this month he was in fights to the death with Doc Ock and Green Goblin (Sin Eater might have been published after or around the same time as this?), let alone all the other times he's fought them and other bad guys. But he seems gun-shy and is constantly talking about how ineffective he is in the fights throughout the book. I think they were trying to draw a contrast between Wolverine's world and Spidey's, but it felt like they went a little far. The Wolverine end of things was fine. The stabbing-someone-to-release-them is a Wolvie trope at this point, but I think back then it would have been less so. They lean into the animal rage stuff a bit much for my taste, but I think that was part of drawing the distinction between him and Spidey. Otherwise it was a pretty straightforward Wolverine story; it could have been a two or three story arc in any of his self-titled series. On the whole, I don't know that this adds too much to Wolverine or Spidey's lore. According to the Wikipedia article, Spidey's writers at the time didn't know that Ned was being killed and they felt sandbagged by it. I'd probably join them in saying that it would be better if it hadn't happened. |
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| I enjoyed Spider-Man vs Wolverine as a Cold War story but I do feel a better version of this story could be made. Maybe it is a little too short? At 64 pages it is essentially two issues. Death of Jean DeWolff, released the year prior to this, was twice that length and that also used another Marvel character to contrast with Spidey’s side of things. In a way, I think perhaps it should be considered a 4-part story and we just happened to read the middle two issues. Apparently this issue is bookended by ASM 288 and 289. 288 has Ned mentioning he’s going to Europe and in 289 we see the fallout of Ned’s death. Still, I do think Ned’s death could’ve been handled better in THIS story. I mean, Ned was introduced back in ASM 18, so he’s been prt of Peter’s world for quite some time and to walk in on him bound to a chair with his throat slit by Russian goons really should’ve elicited a more significant response. Maybe not the same rage he expressed for Gwen but some grief at least? Certainly more than “that Wolverine fellow MIGHT be involved somehow?” Spidey is understandably shaken by contributing to Charley’s death but it seems Ned should’ve been worth at least that much reflection. I guess Spidey’s side feels unsatisfying because it is a fish out of water story where he neither learns to swim nor is getting home really the end goal. He’s just kind of there for the story and leaves when its done. I agree that the Wolverine side fares a lot better. The story makes me think of Madripoor Nights, which I still need to read. I also wonder what the story could’ve been like had they replaced Spider-Man with Black Widow, Nick Fury, Captain America, or even the Punisher. You would lose Spider-Man’s fish out of water side but I’m not convinced that it would be missed. Btw, regarding Storm’s dialogue early on, it seems this story takes place shortly after the Mutant Massacre and Dazzler getting possessed so the X-Men are understandably on edge. The story is also clearly continuing Wolverine’s characterization from the Claremont/Miller mini-series with his meditation and Charley showing up to die in Japanese garb. I also noticed a few weird things in the story. I thought it was strange that Spidey is in is black suit days but when his Spider Sense is triggered he’s always shown with the old mask. Also, why would peter take his belt and web shooters to Germany with him but not a costume? With all due respect to Mark Bright, the penciller, and Al Williamson, the inker, but I felt the art in this story wasn’t nearly as strong as what we’d just read in the Sin-Eater story. When he’s unmasked, Wolverine has these very rounded facial features and elongated eyes as if they are trying to make him appear Japanese himself. And why does he visit Peter without a shirt? lol To the art’s credit, the graveyard setting was really well done but I drool to think what it could’ve been with the pitch black inks and depth we saw in the Sin-Eater storyline. |
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I almost commented on Wolvie running around shirtless the whole time. I think it was part of trying to contrast him as an animal and Spidey as someone completely unsuited for that kind of fighting. They also really lean into Wolverine's berserker rage and how he smiles when he fights. I understand it's a key Wolverine type, but it's not my favorite angle on his character. Combine that with how Spidey is portrayed as almost a novice and it feels like these writers just got some Cliff's notes and then wrote the book. |
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| I read Amazing 400 last night. I don't honestly have too much to say about it; I'm sure that the death of Aunt May would have a much bigger impact if we read a few issues around it, or if I were a more regular Spidey reader in general. The same for all the Ben Reilly clone stuff, and whoever the Traveler is. I knew that all happened, of course, but I don't know the details and it can't really pay off in a single issue. My main thoughts were about the art. Bagley is *the* Spider-Man artist as far as my personal reading history, so I enjoyed seeing it again. The Romita issues we read before have a great classic look to them, but this was the Spidey I'm used to seeing. All weird angles and tangled body parts. I did notice more angular/jutting chins than I remember, but it didn't quite reach the level of being annoying. I'm always happy to see Bagley drawing Spider-Man. |
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| I personally loved ASM 400. I haven’t really read the issues around it though I am somewhat familiar but I don’t think any of it wholly necessary. The main thrust of the story is the relationship with Peter and Aunt May and I think most of us are familiar with their dynamic. I think the issue should give enough background on Peter’s Clone for this story. The Traveler and the Jackal take up maybe three pages in a 40-ish page story so I think they can be safely ignored. May has apparently been sick but has recovered enough to go home. News of May’s illness has brought Peter’s long thought dead clone back to New York. The heart of the story is the moment in time in Peter’s life when he can look back at his past as well as look to the future as May relates the meaning raising Peter brought to her and Uncle Ben’s lives to what Peter and Mary Jane will soon embark upon. May knows immediately on seeing Mary Jane that she’s prefnant. Peter and his clone have a short talk where the clone urges Peter to take the happiness that he’s been blessed with and never let it go. The clone obviously hasn’t had Aunt May in his life but he does have all of Peter’s childhood memories, which Peter later argues means they share a past. It seems the two have not had the most pleasant relationship up to this point but Peter acknowledging their shared past and that he has as much reason to worry for May as he does seems to warm things up between them a little. Peter and May go up to the observatory of the Empire State Building; a place that was important to her and her late husband, Ben. Gazing out at the skyline May finally reveals that she has known Peter was Spider-Man for some time. At this point, May’s health takes a turn and they take her back home. I’ll admit I got a lump in my throat and shed a few tears over the next few pages. Peter’s in denial, trying to convince himself that it’s just a fever that will pass but May calmly acknowledges that she knew her time was coming to an end and that their last week was their chance to say their proper goodbyes. In tears and with time running short Peter tells Aunt May about a dream he had in which their roles were reversed and May calmed him by having him remember the book she used to read to him, Peter Pan, where the children took the second star to the right and flew off into the heavens. In her bed, with Peter, Mary Jane, and Mary Jane’s Aunt at her bedside May dies. Peter’s last words to her are the last words to her are the last words for quite a while. Peter is embraced by the outer mourners in the room while Ben is forced to mourn alone as a star streaks across the night sky, which inevitably turns to day. May’s funeral proceeds with no words as she is laid to rest. Peter pays his final respects. Only after Peter has left does Ben pay his respects and the sequence ends with May and Ben finally reunited. At the reception Peter thinks about what May hast left him and where his life is going next. Unfortunately, at this point, the overarching story comes crashing in and Peter is arrested for murder and Ben finally reveals himself to Mary Jane. As I said at the start, I really loved this issue and I think it works fairly well as a standalone issue. I think it gives enough background on Peter’s clone that you understand why he’s there and the things it doesn’t describe (the Jackal and Judas Traveler) can be ignored. I think the story really took the time to make May’s death significant as well as gave the characters and the audience time to feel the events that just transpired. The story also set up the big question for Peter’s life going forward. He has a wife and a child on the way. What does a super hero do from there? I definitely agree with @xkonk , Bagley is one of the definitive Spider-Man artists for me and his work here is great. There are actually no superhero battles and very few costumes but Bagley does an excellent job conveying emotion in the characters’ faces which is crucial in an issue like this. Unfortunately, this story came right smack in the middle of the Clone Saga. This is where the issue is in the omnibus I read it in:  The Clone Saga kept getting awkwardly extended meaning story plans kept get getting scrapped as editorial staff changes kept changing the story’s direction turning things into a mess. That omnibus I pictured? It’s the first of four that it took to cover the whole thing. Still, for all the bloat and mess, there is still some good stuff in it. I loved this issue, as I’ve mentioned, but I also enjoyed Ben Reilly’s tenure as Spider-Man for the most part, when the overarching story wasn’t butting its head in. As much as I love this issue, Marvel would undermine it by the end of the clone saga by retconning May’s death and saying it was some actress in a part meant to manipulate Spider-Man. And of course Marvel editorial would once again refuse to let Spider-Man move on from Aunt May with the much maligned One More Day storyline. Here are a couple of videos describing how the clone saga went off the rails: |
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| Starting Monday, New Month, New Reading, New Thread! Fresh from his new animated series on Amazon Prime, Invincible Wk1 (4/5-4/11): Invincible #1-4     |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite Yeah, this is all true. I guess it's the contrast to the other stories we read. The Doc Ock and Goblin stories didn't have any distractions or prompts for future stories (or if they did they were subtle enough that I've already forgotten them). Sin Eater was a pretty self-contained arc. But #400 is obviously one story promising a bunch of stuff to come. I think it also takes some sting away knowing that Aunt May comes back. The Goblin does too, but the Stacy's have stayed dead as far as I know (alternate realities aside). Maybe I just also read the issue too late at night. |
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Technically, Gwen was brought back briefly in the original Clone Saga and in the OTHER clone saga...  And yet ANOTHER clone in Clone Conspiracy  And the Sins Past story retcons in a Gwen/Norman Osborne affair that resulted in two children which was the reason Green Goblin killed Gwen back in ASM 121. Okay, not a revival but too weird not to mention  |
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If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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Clones don't count!  The Gwen/Osborne thing was more than creepy. I think that story got panned and rightfully so. |
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