Monthly (Comic) Book Club - March - Deaths in the life of Spider-Man14029
 COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wk1 (3/1-3/7): Amazing Spider-Man 88-90   Wk2 (3/8-3/14): Amazing Spider-Man 91-92, 121-122 Wk3 (3/15-3/21): Spactacular Spider-Man 107-108 Wk4 (3/22-3/28): Spectacular Spider-Man 109-110 Wk5 (3/29-4/4): Amazing Fantasy 15, Spider-Man vs Wolverine, Amazing Spider-Man 400 Discussion topic ideas: * Thoughts on the story or artwork * Details in the story, artwork, or presentation * References to outside events or other works of fiction * Making of/Behind the Scenes details * Inspirations or works that were inspired by the selection * Editions you will be reading from * Items in your collection pertaining to this week’s selection Nominations will be done a little differently this month. I will start a new thread for them later today. |
||
| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
So I’ll be reading this first part of the month from the Death of the Stacys premiere edition hardcover The Premiere Editions are usually released in a standard edition and a limited edition with the original cover. Honestly, I prefer the standard covers on these  The book opens with an introduction from Gerry Conway   The book includes the covers from the Marvel Tales reprints which were done by Todd McFarlane |
||
| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Amazing Spider-Man #88 This was a fun issue from the start. So we start with Dock Ock’s arms on display in an exhibit with Ock himself imprisoned far away. Admittedly, I’m so used to the more recent iterations of the character, I had forgotten that Ock’s arms were once removable and that he controlled them via a psychic-type connection. That said, and I know I’m overthinking it but man, I think its a bit much for Ock to control his arms in New York all the way from Chicago and somehow guide them back to him. We find out that Peter’s adventuring as Spider-Man has strained his schoolwork, which is everyday for the character lol Professor Warren warns Peter that his scholarship is in danger if his grades don’t improve I gotta say that I really love Romita’s artwork. It’s very clean but full of life and action and he’s great at drawing crazed faces, of which we get a couple examples in this issue, particularly with Jonah. In the non-action scene the art really conveys the era, though I imagine that the art helped define the era visually in comics as much as it reflected the era. After reading Watchmen and its villain’s meticulous master plan it was almost funny seeing a brilliant scientist villain basically winging it. After escaping from prison (after apparently being imprisoned in a full suit), Ock hijacks a random plane to get back to New York. The plane happened to be transporting a foreign general to the United Nations so Ock decides then and there to random him. It is never stated where the General is from but he is depicted as a controversial figure with protests for an against him waiting at the airport in New York. I imagine it is meant to reflect the current atmosphere in the country at the time (circa 1970) when the United States was still in the Vietnam War and protests surrounding it were not uncommon. Stan even slides in a brief bit of political commentary as John Jameson and the general escape the plane. The fight between Spidey and Ock in the plane was very kinetic and fun to see. I was excited to see what would happen after Ock reached for the plane controls so I was a bit disappointed that the plane crashed almost immediately. It would’ve been really cool to have Spidey fighting Ock while he tried to keep the plane in flight. The book mentions ASM 56 as a previous Dock Ock appearance. Does anyone know if that was his last appearance before this issue? I’m kind of interested in how that fight went down. Did Ock have a plan or was he winging it there too? Does anything in the immediately preceding issues kind of lead into this story? Does someone have some insight i to Peter/Spider-Man’a relationship with Captain Stacy up to this point? |
||
| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
|
Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ooo - I had these but never read them; I gotta buy a reprint edition! | ||
| Post 4 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Issue 88 - I... basically had all the same thoughts @dielinfinite did  Romita's art and style are kind of synonymous with books of that time for me, like Bagley more recently (Bagley did it so long and when I was getting into reading, so he's my prototypical Spider-Man). The Peter Parker in the issue just looks classic.I was never a huge Spidey reader though, and wasn't born at the time, so Doc Ock's character was unexpected. He just randomly hijacks a plane? He refers to himself as 'Doc Ock'? This guy is nothing like the Octopus in Spider-Man 2. The Stan Lee/early Marvel writing is both fun and seems a little obvious now. Like almost stereotyped, except it was the real thing from the time. The panel with the generals leaving the airplane stood out to me too, though. "America's so violent!" "Well, everybody's violent, right?" I guess some things never change. A few oddities for me from the issue: I would think that as soon as the hijacking was known they would have cleared any demonstrators (all civilians, really) from the airport. Kind of crazy that they didn't. The vertical stabilizer (tailfin) on the plane looked hella tall when Spidey climbed over and down it. I wonder if it was perspective for effect or if Romita just got it wrong. They aren't that huge compared to the aircraft body. I really want to know what Ock crashed into at the end of the runway to make the plane explode. Nothing was drawn there that I could see, and most runways just have the airport fence somewhere out there. Maybe I was supposed to think he went up and came back down? Assuming that nothing was there, it made it a funny throwback action scene thing, like stuff just explodes for no reason. Reminds me of |
||
| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk Yeah, its definitely interesting going back to the older stories when your first exposure to the character is a much more recent iteration. Before even Spider-Man 2, my first exposure and impression of Doctor Octopus was from the 90’s Spider-Man series, which I still think did an excellent job. I believe the cartoon introduced the idea of Octavius having been Peter’s science teacher in the past. The film didn’t recycle the idea but did have Peter and Octavius form a bond before he became a villain |
||
| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Spidey 89: The hero thinking that the villain is dead seems pretty dated at this point. I don't know much about Spidey's early stories, but presumably he thought some bad guy perished but then they came back? Anyway, definitely an old-school thing. The spider-sense seems a bit inconsistent here. I remember some Spidey comic I read years ago had an extra couple pages at the end talking about his powers and how they work. It said his spider-sense goes off if something dangerous is nearby, even if Peter doesn't know what it is. The panel showed a guy walking down the street with like an 'x-ray effect' to show the reader that he had a gun under his jacket, but it wouldn't have been visible at all. And that vibes with Peter knowing where Ock was on the plane via spidey-sense last issue. But in this issue, Ock is right around the corner and it doesn't go off at all. Not a big deal, but noticeable since it's back-to-back like this. Speaking of Ock in the alley, that guy is melodramatic. The focus on air pollution seems a little left-field. Fair reminder that Ralph Nader was a known name for quite a while, though. Anyone know what was happening around publication time that it would be a plot point? The fight on the rooftop is a good example of Spidey's inventiveness as a fighter. The little distraction with the web ball is one thing, but webbing Ock's arms together and then using them to slam him into a chimney by jumping away is pretty good. "Your puny spider power can't match my mighty tentacles!" tells you a lot about what kind of tone would work in a movie versus a comic book. And maybe what era it was, too. Ock dropping Spidey off a building certainly has the old-school 'deathtrap' feel to it, but man what a stupid move. Spidey swings around between buildings all the time! Ock was kicking his butt and had Spidey helpless in his arms. Rookie mistake by the villain. This was a fun battle issue overall. No weird crossovers or plots, just a bad guy not liking the good guy. |
||
| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ASM 89: This issue was almost entirely Spidey vs Ock with just a scant few pages of what could be generously described as plot or story. Still, the fight is fun to watch and the anemic story in this issue does make you want to come back for the next to see something happen, and the cliffhanger certainly teases something. I also noticed the inconsistency with the Spider-Sense. Unless there was a significant amount of time between Peter tossing the newspaper away and Ock picking it up ot really should’ve picked up on it. Still, I thought it was kind of funny for Ock to be dramatically posing and emoting in broad daylight, albeit in an alley, when he’s trying to convince people he’s dead. In yet another issue protesting makes an appearance as if it was a regular part of a high schooler’s social life. Maybe it was? Certainly it was a major characteristic of the time so I guess the comic is just reflecting that. They even name-dropped Ralph Nader. Will the next issue be his first appearance? Will he be introduced into the MCU in phase 4? A quick gander doesn’t really reveal any specific activity around that time to associate him with a pollution protest though he had been gaining popularity and potential presidential candidate. Another sign of the times is people referring to each other as “cats.” Not sure why but it always brings a smile to my face. I wonder if the page with Jonah freaking out over seeing Spider-Man was added to fill space because it doesn’t seem to serve much purpose except as a regular reminder that Jonah hates Spider-Man. Doesn’t Ock seem overly resilient to anyone? I don’t recall super strength necessarily being one of his powers but he’s shrugging off multiple good spider-strength enhanced blows throughout his fight that should’ve laid a normal person out cold. The art really conveys a great sense of movement with Spidey zipping around all over the place, up and over buildings, and dodging Ock’s mechanical limbs. The last bit with the water tower reminded me a little of the classic scene in ASM 33 with Spider-Man trapped under the rubble. I wonder if that was intentional  |
||
| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I didn't have the water tower issue number memorized so I briefly thought it was going to be that. But I think it struck me as not right, probably from some vague memory of the cartoon (?). | ||
| Post 9 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wk2 (3/8-3/14): Amazing Spider-Man 91-92, 121-122    |
||
| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ASM 90 So this issue begins where the previous issue left off with Spidey having been thrown off the builing. He mentions that he is out of web fluid to help create some tension. I think it would have been far more effective had Spidey mentioned his being out of webbing before being thrown off thr building, then at least the readers would've understood the cliffhanger as an actual danger instead of wondering why Spidey can't just swing to safety. I actually went back to the previous issue and Spidey doesn't even use his webbing after the early part of the fight. Spidey is able to save himself by swinging into a window using Ock's temtacles. The first few frames after Spidey gets inside threw me a bit because the walls are colored the same color as the sky has been in the previous frames so I thought he was still outside for a bit. The tentacles pursue Spidey and he and I had the same thought at the same time when he wondered how long Ock's arma can reach seeing as they were not only following him down the hallways but also followed him down several stories after he was thrown from the building. I thought the fight ended a bit anticlimactically since Ock didn't follow Spider-Man into the building and just leaves. Captain Stacy makes an appearance after being brifly seen a couple of issues ago. He's there when Peter loses consiousness from the strain of the fight and brings him home to recuperate. He's clearly fond of Peter. i'm not entirely familiar with their relationship so I'm not sure if he was a father figure to Peter. He drops some major hints that he knows something is different about Peter so Peter quickly leaves to prepare for his next fight with Ock. Develops some new weapon to ise against Ock and Then follows his Spider-tracker back to Ock, only to be caught by surprise. Compared to their previous fight this one is very brief. Spidey's new web formulation disrupts Ock's control over his arms. As they flail uncontrollably they subdue Dock Ock but also destroy a nearby chimney sending masonry falling to the street below. Captain Stacy, who had just arrived on the scene rescues a small boy by pushing him out of the way of the debris only to be caught in it himself. Spidey tries to rush him to a hospital but knowing his time is short, Captain Stacy reveals that he's known Spider-Man's identity and asks him to take care of Gwen after he's gone. I wonder when the decision to kill Captain Stacy was made. I just wonder because Captain Stacy doesn't really appear in the story until this issue. Granted, approaching this not as a standalone story but part of an ongoing series it works a little differently as his death could be the catalyst for the next few issues. Just seeing the cover for the next issue, I imagine it might deal with some of the fallout from Captain Stacy's Death, after all, he was a dear friend whose dying wish was for Peter to take care of Gwen, whose reaction we haven't had a chance to see yet. I thought it was interesting that when Captain Stacy's death made it to the movies, his dying wish was the exact opposite of his comics' counterpart in that he wanted Peter to leave Gwen, knowing the kind of danger Peter's life will inevitably bring. Amazing Spider-Man had its issues and I think I will rewatch it tonight, but I think Captain Stacy's death was done well. |
||
| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I had the same general feelings as @dielinfinite again. There's still some oddness with people's powers, like how Spidey's sense works and what Ock's tentacles can do (I guess they sense on their own somewhat, but maybe not fully when Ock is in charge?). And how long are Ock's tentacles?? I liked seeing Peter do some fancy science stuff. His scientific prowess has rarely been a big part of the movies and seems to come and go (at least as a focus) in the comics. Not having read the series leading up to this, Captain Stacy's death doesn't have a ton of impact for me. But they did a good job with it; Peter's tendency toward thinking out loud (they aren't even thought bubbles, he just says everything) makes the emotion more effective. |
||
| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I blazed through issue 91 fairly quickly. There's a big shift from all the action in the previous two issues to this one, which is more about setting up some plot. Bullit is pretty menacing, both in words and appearance. Romita hits all the classic marks in terms of showing that he's a bad guy even if there were no text. It's kind of funny to see Peter succumb immediately to Godwin's Law. I guess some things, along with 'law and order' political candidates, are timeless. Jameson comes off particularly badly in this discussion. |
||
| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| One thing I left out of my comments on #91 was how easily Peter slips into self-doubt, wondering if he really is a menace or not. Very Spidey. You don't see a lot of heroes go that deep in the well very often. #92 picks right up where 91 left off. Spidey decides to kidnap Gwen to cover for showing up in Peter Parker's apartment and gets to play the heel for a bit. Unfortunately for him, Bobby Drake is walking by and decides to step in as Iceman. Spidey swings away after a brief fight to make sure the police don't corner him. Things take a turn for Bullit when Jameson suddenly decides to remove his support. Jonah was convinced by Bullit's thugs roughing up Peter Parker and Robbie showing him his file on Bullit's dirty history. Bullit takes the opportunity to have his thugs grab Robbie, and Iceman complicates things again by briefly stopping Spidey from following. Spidey gets the best of this fight and catches up to Robbie and the bad guys at Bullit's hideout. Iceman follows and we get to act three of the usual good-guy team-up: guest wins, title character wins, they work together. Iceman and Spider-Man are a good pair as they're both jokey, playful characters. Spidey gets to do some bowling and Iceman makes a loop for the bad guys to slide back on instead of running away. Bullit's fall comes quickly as he basically admits to trying to have Robbie killed in front of a group of people. Some things I looked up during this issue: 'Law and order' is an old phrase, of course, but it really hit political heights in the mid/late '60s with Goldwater, Reagan (running in CA), and Nixon. ASM 92 came out in January 1971, and X-Men 66 came out in March 1970. 66 was the last issue before X-Men was cancelled and went into reprints, so Iceman isn't joking when he says it's good to be back in action. Bullit calls Robbie 'Sambo', which apparently was a stereotypical name for Blacks. Jonah recognizes it for what it is, which doesn't make him any fonder of Bullit. Jonah is not coming across well in these issues but at least he has loyalty for his employees. |
||
| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ASM #91 So this one starts off at Captain Stacey’s funeral. We’re told that Gwen believes Spider-Man is responsible for her father’s death. I’m kind of disappointed that we didn’t see her being told the news. Seems like there was a well of dramatic material that went untapped. Bullit reminds me a lot of the Kingpin with an appearance that hides the physical danger he poses. I am also a little surprised at how big a presence politics have in the books. In this issue specifically but they seem to come up at some point in every issue of this selection so far. Heck, even when Jameson’s longing for the “good ol’ days” Robbie immediately fires back with the racial issues people with that kind of nostalgia tend to overlook. Politics in comics are certainly nothing new. Quote: Originally Posted by xkonk To be fair, Godwin’s Law is specifically about online discussions. In Peter’s case, given that a political candidate has used his propaganda machine to instill fear in the city to the point of turning into a ghost town, increased police presence, and said politician’s goons strong-arming him at the time (and soon thereafter beat and threaten him), I don’t think a Hitler comparison is entirely unwarranted. I kind of think Spidey’s response to the goons may also play into his self-doubts. While they were certainly deserving of something, Spidey’s response seemed mostly driven out of anger and revenge, which are normal human responses, but its not difficult to see how that kind of response could lead to something dangerous if not kept under control and the spin from the Daily Bugle makes it even easier. |
||
| Post 15 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite Oh, I know, but there isn't a concise phrase for the non-online case. I kind of thought it was funny to see in a 50 year old comic though! With all the (at the time) recent political content, Peter could've called him a Goldwater, Thurmond, George Wallace. Maybe Stan didn't want to call out specific, active politicians, but then you can always go Mussolini or something. I just thought it stood out a bit. Bang, straight to Hitler! |
||
| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Monthly (Comic) Book Club - April - Invincible Vol 1-3   Invincible #1-13 Available as 3 trades: Family Matters, Eight is Enough, Perfect Strangers Also as Ultimate Collection HC vol 1 Wk1 (4/5-4/11): Invincible #1-4 Wk2 (4/12-4/18): Invincible #5-8 Wk3 (4/19-4/25): Invincible #9-11 Wk4 (4/26-5/2): Invincible #12-13 |
||
| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Read 121 and 122 back-to-back. There's a big jump from 92 to 121 in terms of issues, but circumstances don't seem to have changed much. Peter is still acting sick (or is sick from crime fighting) to cover for his Spidey activities. Spider-Man is still a bad guy to the public. I did a little Wikipedia-ing on LSD. Apparently it can lead to psychosis in susceptible people, such as those with family members that had schizophrenia. Harry had bad luck being Norman's son. The tendency to explain what's going on in most issues is nice, as otherwise I'd have no idea that (currently) Norman has amnesia and knew, but forgot, that Peter is Spider-Man. Although it doesn't last long, as Norman gets his memories back and kidnaps Gwen to lure Peter. Gwen's death plays out a little odd to me. Spidey is panicked trying to save her, of course, but then super complimentary of himself just for snagging her. We see in the artwork that Gwen's neck snaps when the webbing stops her fall, but Green Goblin jumps right in and says that she was already dead. Maybe Goblin wanted to take credit for killing her, but letting Spidey soak in the event for a minute would seem more cruel. It's still traumatic, and Gil Kane does a great job of making it look dramatic, but it didn't hit the right tone for me. Neither of them knew exactly what happened, the Goblin wanted to claim a victory over Spidey, and it enrages Spidey enough for the story in 122. It's also a little odd having Spider-Man, who's often young and on the more idealistic side of superheroes in my eyes, threatening to kill the villain. Maybe more realistic though. 122 starts with Spidey jumping on the Goblin and giving him a pretty good beating until he runs into a pole and the Goblin escapes. Keeping Spidey's usual idealism in mind, you can see how much Gwen's death has affected him. Blocking her body, throwing cops around, blaming Spider-Man for her death (the superhero lifestyle though, not his direction actions). Then he explicitly chooses vengeance over his friend Harry. Pretty rough. This feels like the Peter that would let a burglar run by because "it isn't my problem". Spidey finds his vengeance, tracking the Goblin to a warehouse and throwing him a beating before he stop himself from going too far. The Goblin is not so kind-hearted though, and uses his glider to try to attack Spidey from behind. Spidey dodges it and the Goblin is impaled to a wall instead. The epilogue makes me wish there had been more of Mary Jane in the other issues. Peter is downright nasty to her; obviously in grief, but still. And she decides to stay? That's a heck of a hook to keep reading, but I wonder if it lands the same if you've been reading the whole series. This is a good, impactful two-part story though. I don't know if it's the older style or what, but the emotion comes through for me much more than a lot of recent books. It was good to read the basis for what I've previously only seen in movies... twice, sort of. |
||
| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ASM 92 Spidey’s plan to kidnap Gwen seems almost farcical, though I really wish she had a bigger role in the issue so we could see more of her issues with Spider-Man and his involvement with her father’s death play out as that seems to be where the emotional meat is. Iceman’s introduction was a little too coincidental. While Iceman’s ice bridge looks cool, it seems really impractical, like it should just snap on its own after going so far without any supports. It’d be interesting to see how many other guest appearances the X-men were doing between ‘66 and the release of GSXM. I wonder if it was a Hulk in the MCU situation where they show up regularly in other people’s titles but their last title was a decade ago. Bullit’s quick thinking once again borders on farcical but is punctuated with some more excellent crazed faces by Romita. I’m curious how the original run of X-Men ended because for a group whose whole schtick is that they’re feared and oppressed by the public, Iceman seems fairly well received. I know the villain in this issue is a corrupt politician but it once again surprises me how social and political issues keep popping up, especially for all the complaints you see about from some groups wanting politics kept out of modern comics. |
||
| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wk3 (3/15-3/21): Spactacular Spider-Man 107-108  |
||
| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| ASM 121-122 These two issues just blow by. They are fast-paced and aren’t filled with many extraneous plot threads. I think these two issues are far more effective than than Captain Stacy’s death because this one really took the time to set things up and wallow in the emotional effect of the event. No offense to the late great Stan Lee but his issues had a big feeling of randomness to them compared to the focus of these two issues. First Ock’s tentacles escape and Ock hijacks a random plane which happens to be carrying an important diplomat which lands at an airport Peter happens to be at. Later when they fight Captain Stacy randomly shows up and dies. Spider-man grieves for a few frames. The extent of Gwen’s reaction is basically “Spider-Man killed my father so I’m going to support this law and order DA candidate,” after which Spider-man kind of randomly runs into Iceman. It can feel a little unfocused and while it has brief moments of drama and emotion, it moves on to the next thing too quickly to let the emotional drama stew and play out. Here the story feels tighter and more character-driven. Goblin wants Peter dead because of the damage he fees has been inflicted on him. He doesn’t find Peter so he takes Gwen. Peter finds Gwen missing so he goes looking for her. He finds the Goblin and Gwen dies in the struggle. This enrages Spidey who then foes searching for revenge. I think there is supposed to be some ambiguity surrounding the actual cause of Gwen’s death. There is the “snap” sound effect which the creators don’t seem to be agree on who added it. It doesn’t look like Spidey took thorough vitals when he picked up Gwen so she may have already been dead before the fall. I don’t think we see any sign of life the whole time she’s up there. Finally, the Goblin says that the fall itself would’ve killed her. Though not supported, it is a somewhat common belief that if you’d fall from a great height (say jumped out of a building) that you would actually die before hotting the ground, and I imagine the belief may have been more prevalent 50 years ago when this was written. Spider-Man really went on a tear after Gwen’s death, going so far as to say he was going to kill the Goblin. While Spidey is usually pretty optimistic, I think the previous issue where Peter is assaulted by Bullit’s thugs and then lays into them as Spidey shows that he can have a temper and I can certainly see something so traumatic really unleashing it. The scene with Harry wanting Peter to stay with him was pretty heartbreaking. Though we don’t get to see the circumstances for Harry’s relapse, the editor’s note does mention Harry’s first bout with drug use, a major social issue at the time but somewhat taboo to discuss, particularly in comics. I think Peter’s reaction to Mary Jane was harsh but I think it might also be a response to some previous events that we didn’t see in our reading. There is also the goof concerning where exactly Gwen died. Peter says he tracked her to the George Washington Bridge, whose towers are metal latices. However the bridge we actually see is the Brooklyn Bridge with its masonry towers. Finally, this storyline is such an important part of Spider-Man’s history it has been a part of two feature films. The first being Sam Raimi’s first film where Gwen is replaced with Mary Jane, the bridge is now the Quensboro bridge, and of course, Mary Jane lives. The second appearance was in The AmazIng Spider-Man 2 where Gwen has a death wish throughout. She falls down an exhaust tower at a power plant. Spidey is unable to reach her in time. Spidey catches her with his web but she still hits the ground, killing her.  |
||
| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I remember being surprised that Gwen died in ASM2. I knew what happened in the comics but I didn't think they would do it in a movie. The surprise made me feel more sad, I think, and so it was effective. | ||
| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I kind of knew it was coming in Amazing Spider-Man 2. Unfortunately, dying is what Gwen Stacey is mostly known for so it was kind of inevitable. In addition, the movie kind of beat you over the head with the theme of death and Gwen just insisted on running towards danger that was above her ability to handle and I felt it would catch up with her eventually. I thought the actual death was unique but it didn’t have much impact on me since I was still giggling from the silly slow motion web hand that Spidey fired off to save her. Just like the first movie, Spidey just kind of gets over it in the last few minutes so the movie can throw in a happy ending...man, Amazing Spider-Man 2 was such a garbage fire |
||
| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I read Spec 107 and 108 together, too. 107 feels like such a departure from the earlier issues. Not the art style necessarily, although that's changed, but the tone. Cops shooting and getting shot at, the dread in the story of Jean's mom, Peter talking about keeping some 'provocative' shots for his darkroom. It's like a whole different thing. Peter's impressed at what the woman is wearing when he takes the photograph on the street, but no one looks dressed for 40. The part with the muggers is all grim and gritty, too. An old man gets mugged, Spidey toys with the muggers (I won't move, one free shot) "snuff any cripples"? Man, I thought the 80s introduced all the heavy stuff. JJJ playing the "are you a racist?" card feels maybe 30 years early. I guess DD failing to stop Sin Eater from shooting the judge fits in. It's always a little surprising to see a hero fail, especially quite so blatantly as this, but it certainly fits the tone. Issue 108 starts kind of the same, with some blind jokes. Spidey tries to cover for losing in his fight with Sin Eater, but it's implausible to me. There have been a few times where Spidey has shown how much different he is from normal people and how much he holds back, and given that Sin Eater is running around with a ski mask and a shotgun he seems like a pretty un-enhanced guy. Getting distracted by needing to save someone, sure, but actively losing a fight is just serving the plot. I'm confused as to why Sin Eater killed the priest. I guess we'll find out in the next issue or two? |
||
| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Spectacular Spider-Man 107 This story has a very different feeling from what we’ve just read in just about every way. Right off the bat things feel different. In a story titled, “the Death of Jean DeWolff” the story actually takes time to tell us about her. Compared to the Captain and Gwen Stacey stories where they don’t have too much of a presence. The fact that we go from learning about her life to her immediately being dead was a bit of a shock. Unlike the Staceys, there’s no grandiose super-villain clash responsible. She’s just dead without our hero even being aware that it happened. In some ways, I think this helps understand whay the Death of Gwen Stacy is often considered the end of the Silver Age. There is a lot here that feels reminiscent of the older story but amplified and refined. I think the book really shows how comics reflect their time period. This story was released in the mid-80s during the rough war on crime years in New York, during the rise of shows like Hill Street Blues that portrayed a more complex and certainly more visceral depiction of crime and policework, and after the wave of vigilante films like Dirty Harry and Death Wish (Bronson even makes a fleeting cameo in this issue) that began shortly after the death of Gwen. Crime in the older stories felt like this outside force that could be stopped by the right person at the right time. In this story, it feels like crime is something more pervasive and instead of being an outside force it is now something that constantly surrounds us and so the force that responds to it has to be that much harsher. We see Peter’s temper appear again after Mr P is assaulted by the thugs in the alley. We saw this previously, and understandably, afyer Gwen’s death but also after Peter was beaten by Bullit’s thugs. For a moment I thought this might’ve been the black suit’s influence but I did a little searching for some context and this story was released just a few months after Spidey got rid of the alien costume. So this is just the standard black costume and Peter’s temper is not being amplified by the symbiote. For some additional contexr, this story was also released a few years after Miller’s seminal run on Daredevil. The art is solid throughout but I have to appreciate the use of thick, heavy blacks throughought. Obviously Spidey’s costume is responsible for a large chunk of that but we are also seeing a lot of people from behind so their lit side is away from us so we’re often seeing black forms with thin lot outlines defining them. They are also used to excellent effect for depth like on the establishing shot of the cathedral but even better on faces. The closeups we see of the Sin Eater’s face in particular work so well, They have that thick black shadow from the glasses or the mask, the other heavy shadow from the eyelid, and finally the black pupil and from under all of that you get this really piercing blue that stands out all the more from all the black surrounding it. The story is definitely setting up a mirroring of circumstances with Spidey and Daredevil by both failing to save someone important to them to the Sin Eater. Daredevil is certainly set up to have some significant guilt issues over the loss of his friend as the story specifically tells us that he could’ve saved him but for a moment of hesitation from worrying over revealing his identity and the shock of seeing such a dignified mentor brought low. I think the mention that the Sin Eater might be on drugs is an important detail as it explains why he was able to even hold his own against Spider-Man in the next issue but also reflects another big social issue at the time. Spectacular Spider-Man 108 This issue is dominated by the street brawl between Spider-Man and the Sin Eater. The Sin Eater puts up far more of a fight against Spidey than a regular person should’ve been able to, which, again, I believe is due to the drugs he’s probably on. The Sin Eater shooting into the crowd is a far more visceral depiction of the danger crime poses to common people than we’ve sen previously. It’s not psychically controlled sci-fi tentacles on a rampage or water towers and masonry being flung off a building. It’s just someone in a crowd with a weapon and it fees just as dangerous if not moreso, certainly more real, than those larger than life situations we saw before. Peter coming across the photos in Jean’s apartment lends the story a tinge of tragedy. Unfortunately, I don’t have much of an idea of how her relationship to Spidey played out in the series before this but story does a great job of making me want to know more by the effect her death had on so many people, from Jonah, to her co-workers, to Spidey, of course. At the funeral, I can only imagine Daredevil’s fuilt being further compounded since he knew the Sin Eater was there but failed to do anything, only saying anything after everyone had left. |
||
| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
So for this portion, I’m reading from another Marvel Premiere Edition. I really like the black direct market covers over the limited editions which slap a picture of one of the books’ covers, trade dress and all. Unfortunately this book doesn’t really have much in the way of bonus content like art galleries or intros/outros. It does include a later Sin-Eater story, however. I also have the story collected in the Spider-Man: Wizard Masterpiece Edition which I just replaced after gifting my previous copy to a friend that moved away. The Wizard Masterpiece editions were neat books collecting some of what they considered the greatest stories for that character plus some fun bonus materials. Not sure hey they got to ten as the back only points out five stories and even if they count individual issues the number doesn’t quite add up. They only released three: this one, X-Men, and Wolverine. I definitely would’ve loved to see some more of these released.   This is also a fun read for me because it is the first storyline featuring the Sin Eater, an incarnation of which was the villain for one of my favorite Venom mini-series, Sinner Takes All. In that story, it is revealed that Eddie’s reporting on the events of The Death of Jean DeWolff are what leas to his downfall and disgrace and eventually becoming Venom. I also really love Greg Luzniak’s artwork, especially the covers for #2 & #3. The artist change in the last two issues was really felt, even by my much younger self.  |
||
| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I was curious about this! |
||
| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dielinfinite I read a little bit of the Wikipedia article on Jean, without spoilering myself, because we really just get dropped into her life in 107. Apparently she was a consistent side-character in Marvel Team-Up for a while, but she only appeared in three Spidey issues before this arc. So I think even Amazing/Spectacular readers would need the intro in 107 because they probably didn't know her well, and she might not have gotten that much backstory in Team-Up either. |
||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
|
COLLECTOR
|
dielinfinite private msg quote post Address this user | |
Wk4 (3/22-3/28): Spectacular Spider-Man 109-110  |
||
| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
|
If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
|
xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I read 109-110 back to back as well. My thoughts from the previous issues mostly continue here. This is a pretty big departure in tone from the earlier Spidey stories. I did realize my comment about all the heavy stuff being in the 80s was accidentally right - the Spectacular series started in 1976, but these issues happened smack in the middle of the 80s. I was too young to pay attention to any kind of news at the time, but I think that drugs, street violence, and policing were very topical. These two issues really try to check all the boxes. It still feels like Spider-Man is very different from the portrayal I'm used to. Maybe that's because I know more of the stories from the movies and his origin story; maybe Spidey has been a violent vigilante this whole time and I never knew. Spider-Man running around town and beating people up for information feels very out of character. Maybe that's the point to an extent though, to have Daredevil show up and remind Spidey of where his head needs to be at. The inconsistent power writing continues as well. Daredevil jumps down into a crowd and his radar sense can't handle it? How does he usually fight? Doesn't he work his way through entire buildings of ninjas? Man. Talking his way through the fight with Spider-Man makes a lot more sense, even if it's a little over-explained. Maybe it's because I've watched too many movies but I found the discussion about Stan going free to be unlikely. Is SHIELD going to step forward and publicly say that they were running PCP studies on people? And then letting them become police officers when they could become unhinged murderers? Seems like exactly the kind of thing where the shadowy government spy organization just keeps their mouths shut, or denies everything when confronted with evidence that someone else found. Despite all the complaints, I enjoyed reading the arc. Heroes that run on as long as Spidey has need to be challenged, and sometimes the challenge is philosophical as much as physical. Having Spidey himself snap to a certain extent, and need to be pulled back from going too far, is a good story idea. It's interesting to read stories written at different points in time to see how utterly apolitical it all was (haha). |
||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
This topic is archived. Start new topic?