CBCS vs CGC vs PGX vs HALO13936
 It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hello comic fans, Let's discuss the differences, misunderstandings and facts regarding the current grading companies in today's market. I am a dealer and sell both raw and graded books with 29 years in the hobby, and have discussed this topic with a few other dealers and would like more feedback from other dealers as well as collectors. Some obvious differences are labels used, type of plastic used for the cases, manor in which the cases are constructed, turn around times, membership fees/benefits and most importantly, accurate grading! Another very important difference is the information provided on the labels. All of these companies should strive to acquire and list key information such as 1st appearances, origins, deaths, new costumes, new powers etc... But many times some of this information is not provided on the labels, which I believe impacts the selling value of many books especially keys. I find this is more common on new books as it is sometimes unclear which characters are in the book. And if there isn't someone doing research on them, then key information doesn't get added to the labels. This has to be improved upon. There are some who "think" CGC graded books are superior in some magical way and thus hold more value. Just because CGC was the 1st company to grade and encapsulate a comic book, does NOT mean they are more valuable. Especially when CBCS & HALO both use true archival quality plastic for their cases. I am not sure what CGC & PGX are using. And to my knowledge, only CBCS has a case that allows the comic to off gas and will not need to have the case replaced every 10 years like the other companies will have to do. This saves the collector money from not having to send their books in to replace the cases. And we can't forget which company has the Ambassador as the top guy!!! Everyone's feedback is greatly appreciated. |
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 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Welcome to the forum  Quote: Originally Posted by Nearmint67 Thinking it's magic is definitely strange. Quote: Originally Posted by Nearmint67 Exactly! The reason they're more valuable is because, most often, a CGC slab will make more money on a sale. Not every time, but currently more often than not. That could someday change, which would be great because that could cause CGC to strive for improvements, and that would drive CBCS to improve, and so on... |
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 I'm waiting.... (tapping fingers).Splotches is gettin old! |
Nuffsaid111 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| A well presented topic for discussion. I like it. The "skinny" synopsis for me and me only: I only submit raw to CBCS and CGC as both companies are well-known. End result is for selling ease. I use CBCS at conventions due to easier access and due to their verified signature program. CGC for most others. I generally do not purchase slabs due to (imo) grossly elevated value that often far exceeds the raw value + labor to grade + plastic case + shipping. I trust my own grading competencies and I tolerate the risk associated with raw submissions, raw purchases and my own capabilities. Plastic Casing, Label type, Label information (other than the grade), are not important to me. I value what I hired the grading company to do - grade the comic and provide a grade to me that is accurate such that when I turn around and sell the product I'm confident in the integrity of the sale. Lastly and perhaps most importantly, I was not aware of the CBCS casing can off gas. I thought that capability was only a human trait, so I've learned something new today! |
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 Collector
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comixcited private msg quote post Address this user | |
| to me it seems CBCS is catching up fast by offering superior options on almost (if not all)points. the $$ difference in sales (10-20%) is sure to dissipate in time. remember DC was top dog in comics for years while Marvel chugged along doing things just a bit differently until they became real competition for each other. I think in the long term CBCS will be viewed equally to CGC with fans on either side. not sure about HALO and I do love a good comeback story so I won't rule out the other one |
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 Collector
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Robodog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Thanks for the reminder that I need to have some old label CGC books reholdered. I'm pretty sure that CGC now uses the same material as CBCS to encapsulate our books. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected in a New York minute! LOL Personally, I prefer the standards of CBCS as far as quality of the slabs and grading accuracy. I've heard examples of how both companies simply got the grade wrong. Whose right? Whose wrong? I don't really care. IMHO, I think you have a better shot at a toss up decision if the choice was between two of the same book with the same grade in a CBCS slab as opposed to the same situation with CGC. I believe more times than not, I will definitely have a preference between the same two books with CGC. One of the allures with CGC is that before CBCS came along, people had already accumulated a pretty impressive registry and any CBCS addition to their collection wouldn't work towards their registry status. I know that's a lame thing to think about but I can assure you it is a thing. With that being said, I would only buy CBCS and CGC books and not even consider PGX or Halo as a purchase. Unless it was an urge to get the book cheaper in order to resubmit it to one of the big two. Just my two cents! |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I use CBCS and CGC exclusively and primarily CBCS. PGX has scandal associated with them and even if they cleaned themselves up, it's really hard to tell if they actually did, so I just stay away. Halo, I know nothing about. CGC is good. They're THE known name in this industry. I'm told in auction settings CGC will attain higher prices than the competition. When I sell, I used BIN options only and have found my CBCS books sell for the same as my CGC books, all things being equal. I find CGC more "corporate" and less hobby friendly than CBCS. CBCS, in my opinion, are by far the best third party grader. They are the most hobby friendly. Their VSP service alone was a huge game-changer. Mr. Borock being president of CBCS (former Head Grader at CGC) is a big plus as his reputation is stellar in this industry....and with that the grading is accurate and consistent. CBCS cases, again in my opinion, are the best out there. Solid, sturdy, sleek, smooth and chrystal clear! They're made of high quality archival safe materials. The CBCS label is classic, simple, tasteful and elegant. I like the font and its boldness. I like their choice of blue and yellow for the labels. It's a softer, pastel-like blue and yellow, not so stark. These are all things that make for a more thoughtful company. This is why CBCS is my primary grader. |
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 Collector
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Themaxx35 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I haven’t been active on the forum much lately so pardon my ignorance, but where the hell did HALO come from? | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Themaxx35 I believe Australia. | ||
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It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Themaxx35 They are based in Australia, New Zealand & United States. They are the newest company to provide the service mainly to countries that don't have CBCS or CGC. |
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Collector
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Themaxx35 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Nearmint67 Interesting. Has anyone used them, or are pictures of HALO slabs verboten like PGX is? |
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It gets old smelling it everytime I go outside my door.
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Nearmint67 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Themaxx35 Cases are beautiful and super strong. You have to have one to see how stout this thing is. |
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| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
 Suckin' on a chili dogOutside the Tastee Freez. |
RexMuff private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Anyone have experience with EGS? I’ve seen a few on eBay, their label design is kinda all over the place | ||
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 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yeah, only pictures of CGC and CBCS slabs are allowed. I edited the post above. | ||
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 Collector
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bennyb86 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Interesting I'll add my 2 cents in. For me personally I'm rather new to the hobby of slabbing books, not to comics in general but to slabbing. My first time sending everything in was with CGC and to be honest while I was pleased with the result I had some billing issues and the customer service was not really helpful in getting it resolved. Plus being a newbie to grading comics it was often hard to get a straight answer from CGC as to what exactly was being used to comic, i.e. plastic, inner-well, etc. However my experience with CBCS was much greater in terms of customer service, be it by email or at a con customer service goes a long ways and I even had someone when I was new show me a slab step by step so I could understand what I was spending my money on and how I was protecting my books so that is a plus. So when it comes down to it due to CBCS won me over due to Customer Service and understanding I was a newbie when I first started and taking the time to essentially "win" my business so I haven't looked back and I have been super pleased with the results of my books. FYI I mainly slab and grade books for my personal collection and rarely flip or sell books unless I am trying to thin out the collection. |
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 Collector
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Nchatzi7 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Personally I buy only cgc graded comics. The reasons for that is, 1) I like the way cgc slabs present more than the other companies. 2) I like cgc registry feature which I use to display my comics. 3) I used cbcs services once and found them inferior to cgc’s 4) cgc slabs result to higher value over other same grade slabs 5) my impression is that cbcs gives the 9.8 grade Easyer than cgc As for slab quality I think that cgc and cbcs are on the same level and even pgxs slabs have improved over time, halo i don’t know. |
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 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by comixcited Interesting point you make here. When I got into comic collecting in the later 70's and early 80's, DC was the 800 lbs gorilla. Maybe I just naturally gravitate to the underdog, but I just did not like DC for the most part. I think New World Pictures bought Marvel in 1986. By the late 80's Marvel had cemented their spot as the new silverback. When I started have my comics graded several years ago, cgc was the 800 lbs gorilla and CBCS was acquired by Beckett shortly after I had stopped sending comics to cgc and contemplated dumping them as my go to grader to be replaced with CBCS. CBCS seems to be where Marvel was when I first started collecting. So, maybe I am the harbinger of CBCS becoming the new silverback! Seriously though, I do see CBCS as a higher quality vendor and with a more consistant and accurate grading. |
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Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
@Nearmint67 Quote:Originally Posted by Nearmint67 I have posted on my Halo experience see links: Before CBCS After CBCS I am 100% with you on the look and strenght of the Halo slab. But, I hated the label and realized that with no offgassing capability, I would need to have re-slabbed and/or re-graded. So I went from witnessed signature Halo to Verified signature CBCS and found out that Halo missed some amature resto/color touch with their grading. Oh, I also had CBCS press the Halo 9.0 as I was a little suspect of the grade. After press it came back 9.0 but the creases that I was seeing are no longer there, so thank you @SteveRicketts. |
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 Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| This is a small thing but for me it matters -- I dislike the CBCS labels. They look like they were designed at Kinko's. Halo's are even worse. CGC's aren't spectacular, but they look better to me. (Not talking about the specialty labels with the characters, though I like those too). I prefer CBCS's cases. CGC's Newton rings and easily scratched cases drive me nuts. I think there's parity when it comes to grading, though in the last year CGC's resto check has been a hot mess. I regraded a bunch of books and the resto that was found was inconsistent from label to label, sent in a book with resto that came back with a blue label, and vice versa. As far as value, I've seen a lot of mega-keys in CBCS cases sold at auction so perhaps the "CGC sells better" thing is now more myth than reality? After slabbing 800+ books with CGC, I'm drifting more and more to CBCS. If their labels were better they'd have all of my business. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Also, I'm planning to do a little personal audit by sending 10 books to CGC, then removing them from the slabs and sending them to CBCS. Will probably all be silver age books, half blue, half purple labels. CGC's inconsistency of late has been bothering me enough to want to compare companies and see if one is better for my needs. |
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 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Early say pre-2015 CGC was the only one at conventions and I only dropped off books at a convention - mostly so I could also get a witnessed signature. Even back then though I was seeing the newton rings and was not super thrilled - but what could you do?? A bit later CBCS was at conventions and not just the large ones -which I really liked - small comic only conventions are great and it sucked that no one was there to take my books! As others have mentioned the staff at the convention were knowledgeable and helpful...unlike the CGC booth - it seemed like they were of the option that they were doing me a favor or that I somehow owed them something..you know..for paying their wages! CGC as of late also seems to be a bit lax on the grading - again, everyone misses once in a while but it seems to be more than that. The authorized witness and verified signature was really the key for me at CBCS. When at a small convention with no one there it was nice to know the signatures I was getting would be honored. The cases were great (even before the new version) PGX...too much bad press, poor grading, missing colour touch etc...and I get it everyone can make a mistake...just seems like many more there. Never held a Halo in my hands so I can't really say....the pricing seems a bit much...maybe better fo overseas collectors?? Oh!! and now CBCS has a Canadian office - sure there have been some hick-ups with covid and border closures but it saves on shipping, the pain of explaining these were my own books I was getting back so are duty/tax free and charges in CAD so I don't worry about exchange rates costing me more $$ when our dollar inevitably drops against the USD. If only CBCS could have pressing and grading in Canada too!!! |
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 SpongeBob Comics #1 sells for $991!
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Joosh private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have zero experience with PGX, owned a HALO briefly and am pretty sure it had been tampered with, so my experience is limited to CGC and CBCS. I’ve used both, and used CGC mostly last year (about 150 books) with sole intention of thinning the collection; resale. After all of this I’ve decided to go to CBCS for all future submissions. The ever growing acceptance of CBCS slabs, which I prefer the case design of, is closing the salability gap quickly as CBCS continues to be better known and trusted. My recent experiences submitting with CGC: I’ve had multiple CGC label errors in these last 150 books, some implying they didn’t actually look inside my books. Missed double cover, missed interior lacking black ink, missed a missing digital code. Falsely claimed a book was missing a hologram (green label) that it never had (because newsstand.) They corrected them free of charge. The hassle was the work of sending them back in just the right way. Seriously, their return instructions are explicit, warning of delays and charges if not done right. I’ve returned to CBCS for 2 errors and simply put a copy of the email correspondence in with it; no problem. Steve Borock himself called me about one error; that’s impressive. I can’t prove it, but I strongly suspect CGC damaged my last batch; corners blunted and indentations from being written over, appearing after CFP pressed them. I had a hard time believing this happened until I read others’ accounts of this happening to them. Inconsistent application of newsstand designations. CBCS isn’t much better here, but they are consistent. Multiple books loose in case, especially thick books. I have yet to hold a CBCS case with a loose book. Newton Rings still, and will always be, ugly. CBCS is king here. Hidden costs. $5 here, $5 there...$5 everywhere. CGC is more expensive overall and forced me to get a paid membership. Inconsistent modern grading vs CBCS. CGC seems to be more prone to both under and over grade on moderns. |
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 I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Whether for resell or my personal collection, I will only use CBCS because I want what I feel to be more accurate grading. I just cannot sell a book that I feel has been gift-graded by a third party (CGC) just so they can keep their flipping business alive. See what I did there?  Before the arrival of CBCS, I sent a Detective Comics #111 to CGC for encapsulation. Mind you, this is not a biggie book, but it does have somewhat of an action cover. Myself, my LCS, and presser, graded the book at a 4.5, and CGC sent it back with a 6.0 label. All three of us were like,.. WTF?  Since then I sold the book (in person, cash sale) and I told the buyer, this is not a 6.0,.. it's a 4.5 and that is the price I am asking. I just don't feel good on the inside by taking advantage of someone who is spending money on something I have for sell. |
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past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Nearmint67 although most of us have used the big two I think some of the discussion may be skewed as many on this board tend to lean toward CBCS having had bad experiences with CGC. I wonder if those experiences are truly indicative of what is happening at CGC...regardless, if I get burnt too many times at one place vs another (even if not the experience others have had) you can guess the outcome!! I have 5 or 6 books that need a press but for some reason I want to keep them in their original Signature Series CGC label...I don't send them in because I worry a) for my books b) I know they will split the order and I'll have extra fees c) I'll have to deal with FedEx and brokerage fees d) I fear the case will come back with rings or loose book in the holder etc. etc. this be one of the books that needs a press...it was a cheap book when I bought it and the grading and signatures were more than I paid for it...even in this condition this is no longer a cheapy and if it gets the bump I think even less so! I don't know...I don't trust CGC but I would still like it with the CGC SS...maybe I'll get over it and send to CBCS for their witnessed label as I think they still accept up to 2014?  |
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KatKomics Great book!! CBCS now accepts all CGC's witness signatures regardless of when it was witnessed. | ||
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 Collector
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50AE_DE private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm not a plastic snob so I don't care what materials are used for the case. As long as the book is protected then I'm fine with it. I'm buying the book, not the type of plastic that is being used to encase the book. I had 6 New Mutants #98 stored in cheap poly bags with the white front/brown back backing boards that went untouched for 20 years and 4 came back 9.8, one 9.6, and one 8.5 (non-color breaking fold on the back cover which should press out), all with White Pages. So when I hear debate about which plastic is best I think about the 20+ year old poly bags that produced some pretty nice 9.8 books. As far as over-grading and under-grading, I'm buying the book not the number that is on the upper left corner. I do a fairly good job at grading books so if a book I'm looking at appears to be over-graded then I move on. Over-grading and under-grading happens with both companies. I prefer CGC over CBCS. I like the way the label looks. Maybe it's because that's what I'm used to seeing and with time I may eventually come to like CBCS's labels. I also like the fact that CGC books sell for more than any of their competitors. Those are the two reasons why I prefer CGC books. I prefer CBCS books when it comes to purchasing. CBCS books are cheaper to buy than CGC books. They may eventually catch up with CGC, but right now they're not there. Once they're there then I'll be a happy camper since I got a few of them for pretty cheap when compared to a similar CGC graded book. PGX - I have two PGX books and NO, they're not Grim Fairy Tales since that's all it appears they grade nowadays. I know I'm taking a huge risk when buying PGX books. While I don't trust the grade, I bought the books with the expectations they were probably equivalent to Green Label books rather than Blue Labels and paid what I thought a Green Label would get. Halo - Seriously? Why not list Vault too? |
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Collector
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cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I won’t use CGC except if a book is too big for CBCS. I hate the lack of inner well. My 9.8 is really a 9.4 at best due to shaking. | ||
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 Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by cyrano0521 CGC doesn't use inner wells anymore? |
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Collector
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cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me This isn’t news...i have purchased several recently without inner holders. Like i said, my modern 9.8 isn’t. Not sure about any others. Have been thinking about cracking them all, anyway. |
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 PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CGC has a Newton Ring problem. CBCS has a Customer Service problem. PGX has a perpetual existential crisis. No opinion on HALO. | ||
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me This is not true. |
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