AF 15 CBCS 7.0 Ex(p), Hulk #1 and Fantastic Four #1 Both CBCS 5.0 Ex(p) WOW13665
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
| They look great, the AF15 looks really good. No trimming, original staples (unless they missed it). Those of you that don’t care for restoration probably would have great trouble if you saw what they do to paintings, old books, furniture etc... I think if there is transparency it’s good. An unrestored AF 15 in that grade is so expensive. I have a interest in a AF 15 exactly like this on the radar but it’s a bit too soon. Is trade in any form an option?? Regardless best of luck I would be happy with that AF 15. |
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RedKnight private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Actually I swear they never miss new staples, if anything 3/4 times they are the same exact original staples they came with and they get it wrong when they say they are replaced (they always err on the side of caution) same with cleaning and glossing, my guy never ever does that, but more than half the time they say its been done just in case. I might consider a cash/trade type deal for the Hulk/FF, AF 15 is my only copy so I am not super excited to sell that one, but if its mostly cash with some trade I might give it a listen. Thanks for the interest! | ||
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYDU Are you referring to necessary conservation, or perhaps well-executed restoration? It's fairly well established that poorly executed restoration severely downgrades the value of an object, particularly when it's so outrageously poor/ham-fisted that it may not be reversible without even further damaging the object. |
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by RedKnightI dont really have a horse in this race, as I have these books already, but one thing I will say about this comment....there are no ugly low grade copies. They are all gorgeous examples of writing and art that are the basis for many of our collecting themes still today ...some might be in worse shape, and some better, but none of them are UGLY |
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @RedKnight welcome to the Forum | ||
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 Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by RedKnight I can attest to this. Their resto check last year was all over the place. |
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| Post 31 • IP flag post | ||
 The Fifth Golden Girl
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sborock private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @RedKnight Welcome! Hope you enjoy it here, great group of hobbyists! | ||
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 Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Welcome aboard! Beautiful books. Outside my range for now. Unless you’ll take a out of state two party bad check? |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me Saying that the reality is restoration is common in other fields. On some of those famous old masters paintings they are not even sure of the original colours. People are going to have different levels of ethics. I think that complete transparency is needed and then you can do decide from there. Yes of course I don’t believe in unnecessary work and damaging the book. I think that there is some resentment (myself included) from the unscrupulous dealers from the 70’s,80’s era who damaged a lot of books by putting black markers down the spine and trimming books. As a kid I would get a high grade early ASM ditko and couldn’t understand why there was ink bleeding on the interior of the cover. In any case yes I would prefer no restoration in my collection but I’m not against it. |
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The Fifth Golden Girl
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sborock private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @KYDU Well said! | ||
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Collector
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by RedKnight They won’t use new staples, they’ll use staples from the same year/same publisher from a another book that is low grade/value that may have some aging showing on it. I’ll be in touch if I have a windfall. That Avengers 1 on eBay is nice too. I’ll DM you if you have any more scans of it. |
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYDU Some good points, and I'd just add that one needs to learn what good resto looks like. The cost of undoing bad resto & then redoing the work properly can be quite high, and there's the time investment as well. So it's an issue that goes beyond disclosure and into the realm of seeking books that are competently restored rather than butchered in an alleged resto process. I'd suggest that - in general - anyone considering buying a key restored book do the following: 1) Demand the name of the restorer AND a copy of their invoice/worksheet detailing exactly what was done, how it was done, and just as important, so you can see what was NOT done. 2) Demand BEFORE as well as after pictures. 3) Consult a qualified restorer - providing these images & information - to learn what the cost of removing bad resto would be, the cost of properly redoing the work, and the likely time frame involved. If ANY of the above information is not happily provided by the seller, or cannot be obtained from a QUALIFIED restorer due to their schedule, I'd strongly suggest walking away, as you're likely to lose both time and money, and perhaps a great deal of both. Glad we're having a chance to discuss this larger issue, and hats off to RedKnight for providing a framework to do so.  |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Redmisty4me Excellent points!! Especially when we're talking 4 and 5 figure books....sound advice. | ||
| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me I agree, and asked. |
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Collector
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You can walk away from AF 15 there are literally 100’s for sale at any time. The problem is when your looking for scarce books like All-American 16 (actually all the early GL issues), Red Raven 1 etc... that rarely come up for sale, half of them are restored. The unrestored ones sell for a fortune, you have to be open to buying restored books if you want to have a chance of getting them. Even then not cheap. That AF 15 presents extremely well, it’s getting killed on the grade because of the back. The waves on the back in my opinion is because the restorer didn’t get it right, if he’s adding paper or a large piece??? No insult to the seller but this is where showing before photos would help. I would have trouble believing that book wasn’t pressed so those waves may not come out. In any way I think it’s still a great buy offhand. An unrestored copy that looks like that would be so so expensive and probably grade higher. The sellers price’s are very fair and realistic, his eBay feedback is great. I’ve never spoken to him before this. It’s a chance for someone to get a nice looking copy and enjoy owning it. |
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| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYDU Speaking generally, I have no issue with books that are properly restored, and the restorer's name, inventory of work on the book, and before pictures are provided. A competent restorer might also be consulted on a book pre-purchase if there are any apparent points of concern. Again speaking very generally, in the absence of specific information on a restored book which would permit an informed decision, and in the face of wildly incompetent restoration which may have butchered a book to the point that it's virtually unsalvageable, buyers might well be advised to walk away & not look back. Great that the conversation has expanded to include a review of some of these more general issues; thanks again to RedKnight for initiating an important topic. |
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| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYDU @KYDU Yes! I held my tongue yesterday but when one sentence is about the quality of restoration and another sentence is about the books possibly improving from a press...well something just doesn't add up there. Either need to be wary of the restorer or the seller. |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by RedKnight This is the sentence that told me everything I needed to know. Really? All that work to improve the grade and value and you neglected to give it the "slight press" that might have been worth $10,000? I don't think so. |
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Collector
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Yes I know @ebayseller but it’s just hyperbole. Some people have every auction automatically say it would go up in grade with a clean and press because in theory it could. You have to wade through it and make your own decision. The more expensive the more scrutiny. So be wary of everyone that’s why you pay fees to eBay and PayPal to protect yourself. If you’re buying 5 figure books without many pictures, questions and phone calls I guess your doing well financially to not worry. |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KYDU @KYDU I know you're right, but this case is a little deeper. It's one thing to say that about a $30 comic that no one is likely to ever actually get pressed, or even a $500 comic. In this case the seller spent presumably thousands of dollars working with the bestest most awesomest restorer on the planet, restoring one of the most sought after comic books. Then he basically says that the slabbed 7.0 would have been near mint if only he had remembered to get the $25 press. That's more than just hyperbole, that's a warning sign of flawed character. I have no history whatsoever with this seller, but we've all had history with people who toss around hyperbole so casually and abundantly that eventually the hyperbole contradicts itself. |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
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RedKnight private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My restoration guy does not use a full press only a hand press leaving some significant improvement potential for someone that wants to take that risk. For those that don't know, heat and acrylics are a bad combination. Acrylics are heat activated and will permanently stick two pages or cover and title pages together. Although there is non stick paper you put inbetween the cover/pages you sometimes can't get it all the way back to the inside spine that you still don't want permanently stuck to the pages, so you are taking your chances. So, The book has not been pressed, in fact none of them have and there was significant room for improvement on all had I decided to take that risk. When I saw the CBCS note on the wave in the back cover I did kick myself for not having them give it a go, because I think they would have a hard time not getting this in the NM 9.0+ range as the book literally looks like it just came off the newstand otherwise. Just FYI, when pressing expensive books, the cost goes up to 1-2% of the market value, so its far more than just $20 to press like on a normal book. If someone is truly interested in buying any one of these books, not just curious, I am happy to answer questions by PM. | ||
| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Maybe it should have been pressed first, unless the restoration caused the waves. I wonder how other Pro's manage the risk, unless the process on these are unique. Unfortunately, the answers are too pricey. Quote: Originally Posted by RedKnight I know it's too late to edit, but if this were in the first post I would have tapped 'Forum Home' never to return, but your post actually had an inviting vibe to it, so curiosity got the better of me. GLWTS  |
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| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by RedKnight Can you provide the name of the restorer, his work list showing what was done, and before pics? TIA |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Redmisty4me OP has already stated that he would answer questions through PM. if i was OP i would do the same. before and after pic in the forum - sure - but other info i would only provide to serious buyers. this is what happens when the first post of a new forum member is a sales post for 5 digit amounts |
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| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by poka Poka, I'm stating that this information should be publicly available to ANY interested party. IMHO, this sharing of MINIMAL information is what happens when MINIMAL transparency is sought in a potential transaction. |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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RedKnight private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Can you provide the name of the restorer, his work list showing what was done, and before pics? TIA If you were interested in any of the books, you would have gotten back to me by PM as requested and I would have worked with you. If you hate restored books and just like to thread crap and flame as is apparent and common with bullies like you, you are welcome to leave, don't come back and not hijack an embarrassing 1/3rd of all the posts here when I guarantee you have absolutely no interest. I personally have never seen before and after pics in a post, that would be something you could request if ready to make a legit offer only and by PM as requested. You rudely started out your thread crapping with the "where is the ignore button", so I ask you follow through with that and avoid all my current and future threads. Where is the block button??? There is a reason why people use pro slabbing companies with the best resto experts in the industry like CBCS that details not only the grade, but all restoration so you know what you are getting. I also have 20 years ebay feedback and many years vast CGC feedback on keys every bit as big as these, so that should also not be in question. On the AF 15 I am $2K-$3K below 5.0 and 6.0 ext(p) GPA and there is a serious chance I am leaving $6K to $8K MORE on the table by not pressing and re-grading plus you are likely saving another 10% from state sales tax and buyers premiums, so you can either jump on this deal or not, but you don't need to thread crap with zero interest. I am currently working with a couple interested buyers, but if nothing comes to a close this next week, I will likely resubmit the AF15 for press/regrade myself. Thanks for your interest to all the legit buyers out there! Cheers  |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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poka private msg quote post Address this user | |
| deleted | ||
| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Redmisty4me there's a semi-ban on discussing pressers on the forum (certainly pressing techniques), and I would be shocked if the same didn't apply to restoration. PM is the way to go. | ||
| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
 Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by xkonk Yes, this. You have to be careful. I think you can talk about WHAT was done - after all, the label does that - but you can't discuss HOW it was done. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm surprised to learn that acrylic paint is used in restoration. I didn't know that. I had always assumed it was done with inks that were similar to the original. That seems a poor choice to me, but perhaps it is standard? At least, the label does say it is "professional" restoration. | ||
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