Situation just got serious for this Ebay seller13578
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I posted this link in another thread but I figure now it's serious enough for its own thread. In ferreting out the scam activities of Ebay seller Beatlebluecat the CGC forum members may have uncovered a criminal prosecution possibility with shill bidding. I assume @Tedsaid is not the only member here to have bought from him at some time or other. It's a long interesting read. The shill bidding part starts in earnest on page 13 if you want to skip the rest. https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/480265-beatlebluecat-defrauding-buyers-with-massive-shill-bidding-and-same-old-buy-cgc-graded-75-crack-and-sell-as-raw-nm-scam/page/13/#comments |
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| Post 1 • IP flag post | ||
 We should have the forum rate our packages.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Shill means fake right? | ||
| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
 past performance is no guarantee of future actions.
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
| yikes!! | ||
| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 I hear their hourly rate is outrageous!
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sportshort private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbaySeller, I could read the whole thing but I'm as lazy as all get out. could you give me the CliffsNotes version. If not, it's fine I'd be too lazy to give anyone the CliffsNotes version also. (LOL) | ||
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 Collector
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dalvar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think to my knowledge Shill bidding is having someone bid on your auction, to raise the price with no intention of actually buying | ||
| Post 5 • IP flag post | ||
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We should have the forum rate our packages.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dalvarthanks... I've heard of shill accounts as well and I'm just trying to get a meaning of the word. |
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| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by sportshort The guys were pursuing a "crack and pump" scammer, the same one @tedsaid mentioned here quite some time ago when his purchase came back from CGC way under the grade he purchased it at. Turns out the guy has been cracking books that present nicer than grade and selling them at auction. They then spotted a bidder with exactly 50 feedback has been bidding on many of his auction, only his auctions and has retracted over 50 bids. So basically he is using a second account to push up the auction price of his "crack and pump" listings. That's the criminal part of it that can be prosecuted legally. That's the allegation and they are asking for anyone who has purchased from BeatleBlueCat to look at his auction history and report him. |
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| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
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We should have the forum rate our packages.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| welcome @dalvar! | ||
| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @HeinzDad Unlike overstating the grade, shill bidding is an actual criminal activity that can have legal consequences far beyond Ebay. | ||
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 Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbaySeller It seems to me I've heard this song before... The problem? eBay. In the unlikely event they take ANY action, the guy will be back up & running same day. If I had a nickel for every crook I've seen do this & worse on eBay - and is STILL doing this & worse on eBay - I'd be up to my eyeballs in Jeffersons. |
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| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
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I hear their hourly rate is outrageous!
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sportshort private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbaySeller, You da man! I used to attend many auctions a few years back mostly looking for stuff I could buy cheap and clean up and use a home. I even picked up a couple of slabbed comics that I re-sold years later and doubled my money. At most, if not all, of the auctions it was announced that employees would probably be bidding on some of the items (apparently it's legal as long as they announce it at the beginning), I often wondered if they weren't just driving the price up on items that could have gone cheap. I have to say that I recall that the employee won every single auction that they bid on. Not saying there was anything cooked, how would I know, but it did seem suspicious. | ||
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbaySeller Ya, but you know that eBay doesn't care, right? I guarantee the guy is setting up multiple additional accounts even as we wag our fingers. |
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| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me True, a thread like this is pretty much an annual event on the CGC board. Looks a whole lot like one I was a part of over a decade ago. But I have to wonder, if Ebay is presented with credible evidence of fraud on their platform...are they under no obligation to report it to legal authorities? |
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| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Redmisty4me private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbaySeller Have you seen the China seller who is printing up counterfeit GA/SA/BA books & selling them for $99 a pop? That guy is doing something BLATANTLY illegal, and has been reported literally HUNDREDS of times. eBay's reaction? Do nothing. This bluecat guy is small potatoes compared to that, and eBay's concern about shill bidding & suspended sellers opening new accounts? "How can we make eBay even MORE opaque so that guys like GG can't figure out who is operating illegally?" And (as you may know) eBay can't be sued by its users; it's in the fine print. So they're sitting pretty & looking the other way as they make the site even more of a black hole every day. |
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Collector
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dalvar private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Ebay is not what it used to be....... | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by sportshort @sportshort I'm not in any way involved with their investigation, just bringing the information over here. Quote: Originally Posted by Redmisty4me @Redmisty4me I'm not sure what the real number is but at some point in the thread sales of a million dollars a year by this guy was mentioned. I agree though usually Ebay's response isn't "we need to sweep this under the rug" so much as it's "why the hell isn't our rug large enough to hide this dirt in the first place?" |
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| Post 16 • IP flag post | ||
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We should have the forum rate our packages.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| over grading a raw es no bueno. I can't even imagine. | ||
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 I have a problem with fattening women up.
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @HeinzDad As a decent human, you can't imagine. For scumbags with no moral compass, those are the dirt bags that can imagine and do act on their worst impulses.... |
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| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbaySeller Except in Texas, last I heard. Still true, @Precoder ? EDIT: Not that that matters in this case, just saying. |
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| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If people here aren't sure about shill bidding, read up on it before you enter another eBay auction. | ||
| Post 20 • IP flag post | ||
 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
| “Legally” I don’t think eBay does anything. I believe They just moderate and those crooks just keep cranking out dupe accounts as fast as they’re suspended. | ||
| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
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Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Redmisty4me Some years ago I got a PM from another CGC member letting me know someone on eBay was using images of my AF15 in their auction. It wasn't my image, it was the one used by the guy I bought it from, and this crook lifted it from the CGC sales forum. It was CLEARLY my book. Several people reported and the listing was removed. I got a PM from the same member a week later letting me know the same account had it up again. |
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| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
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We should have the forum rate our packages.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm relatively new at bay buying, meaning in the last 2 or 3 years. I couldn't even imagine canceling something I bid on even if it was 20 bucks. Let alone playing that shizzle as a poker machine. That might not be the best reference but if you are walking lines like these thats exactly what it is. | ||
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 I'll probably wake up constipated.
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Pre_Coder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Siggy @Siggy - I have absolutely no idea in these types of situations. Texas does seem to exclude itself from the rest of the nation, like it is a country unto itself. Yet it is still included in the national database. |
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| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
 If the viagra is working you should be well over a 9.8.
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xkonk private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think I had bluecat as a saved seller, and maybe won one thing, until they were on one of this forum's various 'do not buy from' threads. And it sounds like that was a good decision. | ||
| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Here's the shill bidders bid history. 100% of his 727 bids are with this seller. I can't believe he's not smart enough to disguise his actions and occasionally place some meaningless early bids with other sellers: https://www.ebay.com/bmgt/ViewBidderProfile?&mode=1&item=303809563249&bidtid=1820445654020&_trksid=p2471758.m4792 |
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| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
 Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock
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Tedsaid private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Siggy That's what I heard, too. And, in fact, the laws are so loose, even the auction houses can shill bid. The person who told me that gave that as his reason for never participating in a Heritage Auction auction. Quote: Originally Posted by HeinzDad And further, most "shill" accounts are actually fake accounts set up by the seller, in order to bid up his or her own auctions. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Doc_Cop private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Having worked at Sotheby's Auction house in charge of their on-line fraud prevention group, Dalver is correct in his definition of shill bidding. We would, as I am sure Ebay does, is look at anyone bidding from the same IP (Internet Protocol) address or MAC address (Media Access Control) which are unique identifiers to identify bids coming from same IP address or MAC address which will show multiple Ebay accounts bidding on the same item from the same laptop, computer, phone or tablet. Ebay should also be looking at patterns of multiple accounts bidding on one Ebay sellers items. If there are enough red flags, a neural network will place these suspect bids in a que which will be evaluated for possible shill bidding. | ||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Doesn't Heritage Auctions actually allow shill bidding? I thought they were outted years ago for having an in-house shill account? Which is why I never buy on HA. | ||
| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Doc_Cop private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Shill bidding falls under the NY State criminal procedure code as a "Scheme to Defraud" an ongoing scheme to defraud 10 or more persons. As Heritage is headquartered in Manhattan, NY. Heritage was sued by a disgruntled employee 11 years ago claiming shill bidding on the part of Heritage when they were located in Dallas. Whatever the history, Heritage would never state they allow shill bidding. | ||
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