Impressively priced CBCS Batman 112948
 Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
 Rarified air, for sure. Beautifully restored book |
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 Suck it up, buttercup!!
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KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user | |
Well....since the shipping is free i may as well take a chance on it!!  |
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| Post 2 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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Briten private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Is that the highest known grade? | ||
| Post 3 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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SidTheSquid private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't get paid until Friday, I'll see if it's still available then. | ||
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 Collector
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Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm going to need more couches... I wonder if Steve graded this one? |
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 Collector
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Rafel private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Can I get 2? It looks really nice. | ||
| Post 6 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Pffff.......Restored! Hard pass!!!  |
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 Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Great looking book. Ambitiously priced. | ||
| Post 8 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by KatKomics Are returns accepted for 30 days? |
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 Collector
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00slim private msg quote post Address this user | |
Honestly? Iâd rather have this one if I had that sort of money. Restoration completely ruins it for me, no matter the grade. |
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 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by 00slim THIS! The book listed in the opening post is almost certainly one of Matthew and Emily Myers books who did/does business under name of Investment Grade Books. There is a recent thread about them. The books are heavily restored. The Myers have sued CGC because CGC grades their books lower due to their essentially over restoring books. Recreating the covers as needed to achieve NM and better grades. As they have sued CGC, they now send their Frankenbooks to CBCS. Half a million is outside my pay grade. But it I was shopping for such, I'd wait for an unrestored, low grade copy. |
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 PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm okay with restoration on GA books, but a 9.6 from 1940? Suspect AF. Probably over-restored (or, rather, re-created - as was mentioned). | ||
| Post 12 • IP flag post | ||
 I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Even I had that kind of cash to dump on a book I wouldn't. I would trust a lower grade by far before I tossed away my money on this. And just like you guys had mentioned, how do we know this is legit?? | ||
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 Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I can't pull up ebay at work but that looks like a laundry list of restoration. I could tolerate a bit of restoration but how much of that 9.6 book is original? | ||
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have some mid-grade keys that have been restored. If I have a book that's already been restored to 5.0 by an amateur, I'd happily have it taken to a 9.2+ by a professional, whether that's IGB or Restoration Lab or whoever. The IGB vs. CGC lawsuit seems like there's something else going on besides the comics. CGC graded a ton of their books when they were sharing restoration tips back and forth with Matt Nelson, but once IGB stopped sharing, CGC stopped grading. IGB not wanting to share all of their techniques with a company that has their own in-house restoration group (CCS) seems reasonable. For CGC to spread rumors about IGB books after they had a falling out seems libelous, especially as those rumors found their way to Heritage and then Heritage stops selling their books. The co-chairman of Heritage is one of the owners of CGC, so it gets messy. And that guy has a checkered past, to say the least. So I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the company NOT led by a guy who was shut down by the FTC for giving fraudulent grades to coins and then selling them through a Heritage-backed company. |
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 Not trying to be an ass since February 12, 2020.
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HulkSmash private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLadI havenât and never will submit to CGC. They will meet their end soon if they do not change (for the customer). you can only provide the âbare ass minimumâ while nickel n dimming your customers so long before you lose business. CBCS all the way for now; weâll see who steps up to provide another quality grading service. |
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I wish I had a title.
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ComicNinja0215 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @HulkSmash i agree 100% cbcs will get my books from now on. | ||
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HulkSmash Lel. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HulkSmash I have 800+ slabs from CGC, but have been sending more and more to CBCS. The insinuation that because CBCS grades these books but not CGC, therefore CBCS must not be as good, is a specious argument. I look at it more as a situation where CBCS doesn't have a conflict of interest the way CGC/CCS/Heritage does, so they are in a better position to grade these books without bias. |
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Beaten by boat oars
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Studley_Dudley private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by HulkSmash Some people like the nickel and dime stuff like character labels. Not me, but when I search for slabs on the Bay, there are plenty of those gaudy limited edition collector's items listed. |
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
| My understanding is that CGC refuses to grade such a book because they can't tell where the original contents begin and end. If that's true, then I agree with them. At a certain point, "restoration" is more "re-creation". Did they offer to grade their books as "NG"? Or do they consider them counterfeit? I think you have to draw lines at some points. | ||
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus If that's the argument, CGC is going to struggle in court. Other restoration experts have taken remaindered keys with only the lower half of the front cover, recreated the top, and added a back page from a contemporaneous book, and CGC has graded those without a problem. IGB has said publicly that they don't use Xerox copies for anything. I have a hard time believing that CGC's restoration pros (Matt Nelson) cannot find where the resto is. It sounds like that's the excuse they used for not grading the books, when the real question that led to the disagreement was "How are you doing this?" not "Where are you doing this?" |
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad We would have to assume that CGC can tell the difference between the original and the recreation, correct? Where do you get this analysis (bold)? |
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad Well --- one of the many suspect things about Investment Grade books and their restorations is that YOU CANNOT send them the mid grade, already restored books you have in your collection to have them improved. THAT IS NOT THEIR BUSINESS MODEL. They do not do work for hire like virtually every other restoration professional. Their business model is they ONLY restore major keys that are going to be sold when done. And then you split the profits with them. Pretty sketchy to most. If you want your mid grade, amateur restored copies spiffed up, I suggest Mike at Hero Restoration on a cost/professional basis. there are other good, legitimate restorers as well. CCS employs a really good one (I forget his name. Zeman on the CGC boards) . Susan and the Restoration lab. Tracy at Eclipse paper Conservation. But Mike's work is solid and last time I used him he was less $$ than others. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus Iâm going off of IGB's legal complaint that kicked off the lawsuit and the more recent summary of CGCâs petition to appeal, that was denied. 1) IGB and Matt Nelson have a good working relationship. Not just as shown by complimentary emails by Nelson, but the fact that IPGâs books are designated as âprofessionalâ restoration. 2) Then IGBâs books begin getting higher CGC grades than CCS/Nelsonâs work. 3) Nelson asks for a meeting (the so-called Trojan Horse meeting) and offers suggestions on a Batman 1 and what IGB could do to get an even higher grade. IGB does whatâs suggested but the book comes back with the same grade. Then Nelson offers to press a restored IGB AF15. He says itâll take a week. It takes nearly two months, during which time CCS/CGC spend weeks studying IGBs work, to the point of tearing off a corner of the cover. The book is repaired and comes back with the same grade. At this point, Nelson begins discouraging IGB from trying to get such high grades and IGB is hesitant to share any more proprietary techniques. 4) IGB continues to have books graded by CGC, which keep coming back with high grades, the âprofessionalâ designation, and Nelsonâs emails are still complimentary. 5) Then...the plot twist...as IGB takes a Tec 29, restored by Nelson to a 6.5, and they take it higher. They send it in, and with Nelsonâs dual role as head grader for CGC and President of CCS (conflict of interest), he spots his own work, sees that itâs been improved upon, and gives the newly restored book a surprisingly low grade. 6) IGB senses something is up, so they send the book to CBCS and it comes back a 9.0. 7) IGB stops sending books to CGC, and begins sending to CBCS, worried about Nelson's conflict of interest. CBCS continues giving the IGB books high grades. 7) Only then does Nelson go on the CGC boards and say theyâre no longer grading IGB books because âItâs become hard to tell what is real and what is recreated.â He had no problem, up until the moment they touched one of his books. Then he went out and basically stated that he broke up with them before they broke up with him. His criticisms of their work found their way to Heritage, who stopped selling IGB books. The co-chairman of Heritage owns CGC, so again, conflict of interest. Depositions showed that Heritage employees circulated Nelson's criticisms without any actual evidence of what Nelson was saying. |
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad Thanks. If CCS can't tell how something was restored, is it reasonable to assume that they can't tell the difference between the original and the restored? That's kinda where I'm going. I can't tell the difference between some originals and professionally restored. I see some reasonable conflicts of interest, but I also see some reason to think they (CGC) may have a legitimate argument. Heritage, maybe not so much. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan I don't believe that's entirely accurate, as they have taken on other books. I'm guessing that it's more accurate to say that's their most profitable business model? Or where they spend most of their time, because that's how they make big money. I can't fault them for having a profit motive, or a business model that is different than Restoration Lab, because ultimately, they're not grading their work. What's sketchy to me is having Matt Nelson serve as head grader and President of CCS, where he's in a position to grade his own work. And the co-chair of Heritage owning CGC. And that guy has a verifiable history of fraud. |
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Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus I totally get that. Matt Nelson is incredible at what he does. I have a hard time believing anyone could fool him. |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 Captain Accident
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the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't mind minor amount of glue or color touch but this is buffoonery. Avoid these books like the plague. You won't know what you are buying. My 2¢ |
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PLOD
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theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad Was IGB requesting that Nelson personally examine and grade their books at both CCS and CGC? That doesn't sound ethical to me. That removes impartiality IMO. That shouldn't be requested nor obliged. |
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