Grading is subjective?12725

Originally Posted by DWeeB1967
Yes, grading is subjective within reason. However, remember that the inside of the book (characteristics other than page quality) affect the grade, too. These aren't visible with a slabbed book.

Originally Posted by Edge328
A minimum of two graders look at each book. These are people that have a lot of training and work off of the standards set by the company.

Originally Posted by Tedsaid
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Originally Posted by Edge328
A minimum of two graders look at each book. These are people that have a lot of training and work off of the standards set by the company.

I'm not sure this is true. I mean, they definitely want you to think it's true. But one thing I've learned about CGC is, they are not very transparent, and, as such, they tend to be very careful with language when trying to hide what they don't want to admit.

The "frankenslab" fiasco @Studley_Dudley mentioned was a problem mainly because they were so loath to admit it was even happening. Today they will still say something like: the number of damaged books was just a tiny fraction, etc, etc. The Newton rings problem they love gaslighting on, too ... their official statement is: "The 'rainbow effect' or 'Newton rings' are a normal occurrence when two different plastics (which have different refractive indexes) are placed together." CBCS slabs never have Newton rings; it's only a CGC problem.

Anyway, I like CGC's labels better, and they still have more market power. But I don't trust them at all. So when they (very quietly) changed from three graders on each book to two, I noticed. Now, they've changed the language again.

To recap, their process is: 1) Receiving - check the comics vs. the paperwork; 2) Verification - does the description of the comic match what the submitter input? Here, a barcode is attached to the bag to anonymize the comic. 3) Authentication - is the comic authentic? Presumably this step includes counting the pages and checking for restoration, but they don't go into detail here. They only say that the collectible is "reviewed for authenticity."

Step (4) is Grading, and here the language is curious. The full statement is: "Grading is a team effort, with multiple CGC professionals examining every collectible to ensure accuracy and consistency. CGC's graders enter a grade for each collectible into CGC's computer system. A consensus is then reached on the final grade of the collectible."

Clearly they WANT you to think it is at least two graders, but they don't say that. They talk around it, saying "it's a team effort," and that CGC graders enter their grades into the system. On the key sentence they avoid the word grader and instead say: "... with multiple CGC professionals examining every" comic. In another place, they say: "CGC employs a team of more than 20 professional graders. Multiple experts examine each collectible and assign a grade according to a well-established and internationally accepted standard." Finally, in their FAQ they say, "CGC guarantees that two or more comic professionals will review every comic book submitted for grading." So three times, when they get to the key phrase, they avoid using the word "grader." I think this is on purpose.

I recently had Matt Nelson (head grader at CGC) on the phone and I asked him directly: do a minimum of two graders examine each comic? Or is it just one grader and some sort of "pre-grader" professional? His reply: I'm not going to discuss our internal processes with you.

Anyway, this may be a lot of hooey, and I'm just being too particular about the language. I hope so. But the larger point is, there are plenty of reasons to mistrust CGC, based on past incidents. They just don't have much integrity, unfortunately. Too many corners cut, too much gaslighting.

I think when enough people reach "the last straw," the paradigm shift from CGC to CBCS will be swift and substantial. All CBCS has to do is keep doing a great job and be patient. (And fix the labels!)

Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad


Is it reasonable to assume at CGC they pay more attention to an AF15, than a Rom 15? So maybe multiple graders on the big books but the small books they just rush through?

Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad
Also, I do think CBCS's labels are terrible. Design matters, folks. Not just basic functionality, but as collectors and fans, we appreciate art and design, and the CBCS labels look like they were designed by the IRS.

Originally Posted by Tedsaid
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Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad
Also, I do think CBCS's labels are terrible. Design matters, folks. Not just basic functionality, but as collectors and fans, we appreciate art and design, and the CBCS labels look like they were designed by the IRS.

Ha! Yes, so true. I would switch to CBCS right now, with ~100 graded comics a month and growing, if they had better looking labels.

Originally Posted by flanders
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Originally Posted by Tedsaid
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Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad
Also, I do think CBCS's labels are terrible. Design matters, folks. Not just basic functionality, but as collectors and fans, we appreciate art and design, and the CBCS labels look like they were designed by the IRS.

Ha! Yes, so true. I would switch to CBCS right now, with ~100 graded comics a month and growing, if they had better looking labels.

I hope I'll have success with flipping my recent CBCS submission of about 85 comics, 60 or so that I intend to sell, and provide some data on whether or not CBCS is catching up to CGC. Maybe you'll consider sending CBCS more business in the future, unless you're also concerned that CBCS will grade your books more strictly and lead to a lower ROI.