Another mint GSX1 wrecked!!!12700
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agamoto private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Around this time last year I had a problem with a gsx1 submitted to cbcs that was graded 9.2. One of the front top corners was bent in on itself 180 degrees and it was an obvious mishandling issue during slabbing. CBCS graciously took the book back, had it pressed and reholdered at the same grade, yet the book now had new damage to a different corner, along the top edge, etc. CBCS offered once again to repress and reholder, but I was able to shuffle the book off as is at 9.2 to someone who wanted it anyway. Fast forward a year and now CGC has done something similar to an even nicer copy. They graded it 9.6 white, but when I receive it, the book was slabbed off center and the right edge jammed into the side with the top and bottom front corners now bent in noticeably. I complained about this, and CGC has sent me a return label with the promise to repress, regrade and reholder BUT without the promise it will retain it's 9.6 grade. They are calling it a shipping damage issue, but that's nonsense. If the book was able to shift to the right like that, it sure as hell would be able to shift back with a good smack on the opposite side of the case. That doesn't happen, it's wedged inside it's inner well. They say it might go up or down, well, I know for certain it's not going to 9.8. So, now I'm not sure what to do. I needed to sell the damn book YESTERDAY and they are telling me it will be at least 90 to 100 days to get it back from them, with no guarantees on the grade. Beyond NEVER submitting another GSX1 to a grading company again, what would you do in this instance, community? |
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 Collector
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doog private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have had a couple books damaged by both grading companies, usually they did not fit in the slab very well for some reason. I ate the damage as the cost of doing business. Know a guy who had all the original art to an early FF book that got water damaged in Heritages care a bunch of years ago, he sued, won but he only got the value of what he originally paid for it, turned out it wasn’t worth suing over. Sorry that happened to you. |
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 Collector
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Briten private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If the company in question denotes that it is damage due to shipping, can you go through the shipping companies insurance and ask them to reimburse you for the damage? I always pay for shipping insurance on high value books so that would be the direction I would take in your situation. |
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 The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If you did not send the book back to cgc yet, perhaps let the new owner deal with the issue after full disclosure? As for black listing both companies, I don't see how you can do that given they are the leaders and there are no other viable options. In hindsight, after getting the book back, since it got the grading of 9.6, I might have explored options with insurance since CGC claimed it was damaged in shipping. Im sorry I don't have any real suggestions. I do not envy your position... |
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 Collector
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daywalker private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That’s my only fear of sending stuff to get graded...and why I never have! | ||
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Collector
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agamoto private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There's no way on god's green earth that any carrier's shipping insurance would offer any amount of recompense. CGC can claim it's related to shipping until they are blue in the face, but it simply isn't true. "Shifting damage" during transit has to be the single biggest moronic excuse I've ever heard of. There was absolutely no presence of any damage to the box, the book had ample packing material as well. The onus would be on CGC to prove to the shipping company that the book was in tip top shape when they handed it over to the shipper and even if they could, the shipping company would tell them to go pound sand since the damage occurred WITHIN their own inner packaging. Anyone who has received higher than C in any high school physics class knows damn well that If a book is able to shift inside the inner well, in any direction, after it's been slabbed, then the book should be able to shift back to its "original" position by applying adequate force to the opposite side. That isn't happening because the book was put into its inner mylar sleeve incorrectly. I've got a Silver Surfer 1 and 4 coming back soon from these clowns. Can't wait to see what they've done there. Blaming it on shipping is like shitting your pants and then trying to blame someone else for having a load of crap in your drawers. Corners before submission:   How I received it:  Now, the bends are not that severe, but you'd think with a book of this pedigree, this value, the people encapsulating would take greater care to be sure they do it right. How this happens, and how it's happened to me now, twice, boggles my damn mind. I can only assume by looking at the construction of the inner mylar sleeves in these slabs, but I'd guess that the people doing the encapsulation have different size tools for sealing different books into their inner mylar sleeves on three or four sides, and I'm assuming they get confused by these thicker square bounds, see the date on it and use a bronze/copper bag and seal device instead of a silver or golden age book bag and sealer as they should be using with these thicker books. How the HELL does something like this get past QC? I'll assume there simply isn't any actual QC going on. I'll tell ya... I returned to collecting 1.5 years ago after I stopped collecting back in 1990. I am so TOTALLY turned off by this racket that I absolutely can't wait to finally have all my books sold off and forget about comic books until the day I die. It would be great if the grading companies didn't make my books look worse on my way to that goal. Sorry for venting. I'm just pissed off. |
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 Collector
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Haljordanfan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @agamoto Sorry Agamato. | ||
| Post 7 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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KeepItClunky private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I feel your pain. I've noticed a decline in quality control from CGC all year. Books slabbed too tightly, not tight enough, books hanging out of the inner well, debris in the case, etc. I don't know what your recourse is at this point, if anything. I guess if one subs enough books you're going to get burned sooner or later, sorry it had to happen to a book of this value. They need to clean up their act. | ||
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 Secret Moderator
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MatterEaterLad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I hate to say it but I've seen this a lot with Giant-Size books. I'm sure with similar complaints both grading companies should be paying special attention to how these big books get encapsulated, but with such volume I'm not sure they are. It does look like they can fix it with a careful press. (Hoping, anyway. Fantastic looking book). Sorry that happened. |
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| Post 9 • IP flag post | ||
 Pictures? We don't need no stinking pictures.
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brysb private msg quote post Address this user | |
If that happened to me I would probably lose my freakin' mind!!!  |
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| Post 10 • IP flag post | ||
 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by agamoto Do what I do- Don't slab. Why punish yourself? |
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| Post 11 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If he is trying to liquidate his collection, I would say grading is mandatory for maximum profit. In general, I personally would pay more for a CGC 9.6 than a raw claimed to be a 9.6. I could understand leaving it be raw if it was just for personal collection though... | ||
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 Collector
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Batworldfan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I have a question about the paper on this book, is it more fragile and bend/crease prone? I want it, but haven't handled a raw copy. My LCS has a CGC 9.8 for sale, and when you look at in the light you can see bend marks all along the spine, that remind me of a Playboy magazine from the 1980s or 1990s. Also sorry for your pain agamoto, but you really think this book is "wrecked", I wish I had more wrecked books like that. I hope you post these photos on the CGC boards, try to embarrass CGC, maybe they will fire someone for doing such a piss poor job! |
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| Post 13 • IP flag post | ||
 I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Seems outrageous that it would take CGC 90 to 100 days to resolve the issue. They should be able to prioritize the pressing and grading and have it returned to you within two weeks of being received. Their response also makes no sense. Given the grade and FMV of the comic it would have to be submitted at the walkthrough tier which is normally 10 business days for pressing and the same day for grading (I suppose their mentality is if they have to do something at their cost it's far lower priority than when a customer is paying the bill). You should ask to talk to someone higher up at CGC and explain how more than a 10 day turnaround is unacceptable and if it doesn't come as a true 9.6 or higher including being in the same or better condition before it was damaged, you should be immediately compensated any difference in fair market value. I'm not sure what their policy says regarding damages occurring on their premises but I'm assuming that if you have comics that high of value that you have collectibles insurance which will cover this as well. If not I suggest you get a policy as it will save you having to insure every single comic you ship. I hope it turns out well. Don't settle with any more nonsense from CGC and be sure to read through all the service terms and condition (I'm unfamiliar with them) and maybe compare those terms of service to CBCS so you can determine if there's a substantial difference between the two and which company will be better to work with moving forward. I've never dealt with CGC and I haven't had any issues with CBCS but I will never submit anything to CGC after hearing about how they constantly show that they do not give a damn about their customers or the quality of their product. If they continue to be total a-holes you can take your concerns to facebook, youtube, and other social media outlets. It's fortunate that in this day and age social media can be used as leverage when dealing with unreasonable business. |
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| Post 14 • IP flag post | ||
 Collector
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
| What a beautiful book that was. There’s no way anyone thinks that’s a 9.6 in that case with those corners. I think they’ll be able to fix it though so stay positive. I have the same concerns on the grading companies. They should do things right, these are irreplaceable collectibles not cheap furniture. Look forward to seeing your Surfer books. | ||
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Collector
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KYDU private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by doog Are you able to tell me which FF book that was? With Cover? If not I understand. You can also tell me privately. Thanks in any case. |
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 Captain Accident
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the420bandito private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by MatterEaterLad I was thinking the same thing. I have a bunch of Marvel Giant Size books graded and ungraded. They all have weird defects. Almost like the books were not meant to be slabbed... |
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| Post 17 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Off topic @flanders can you expand on your comment on insurance? I have normal insurance through collectibles insurance, (not dealers) do I not have to spring for extra insurance on books mailed to CBCS or CGC? "I'm not sure what their policy says regarding damages occurring on their premises but I'm assuming that if you have comics that high of value that you have collectibles insurance which will cover this as well. If not I suggest you get a policy as it will save you having to insure every single comic you ship." |
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| Post 18 • IP flag post | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Bronte I was under the impression that if you have collectibles insurance you don't have to add insurance to each shipment that you can purchase through USPS, Fedex, UPS, etc. I'm not sure how it works after the shipment is received and items are under the care of CBCS/CGC. I'll post the terms from my actual policy later, I don't have access to it as this time. I recall it saying that my items are insured anywhere, at my residence, in storage, during transport and during shipping as long as specific terms are met. I believe for items valued above $250 I have to use a specific vendor and have signature confirmation added in order for the policy to apply for any loss or damages. | ||
| Post 19 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @flanders That would be incredibly helpful. I am planning on sending a bunch of old books to get pressed and regraded and every penny I can save would be wonderful. Edit. I found my policy and enclosed a snap shot of it. I could never figure out what all the stuff means in insurance jargon. I always just thought of the insurance in case of theft or hurricane. Never considered shipping really.  |
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Collector
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agamoto private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Bronte Precisely, it's almost a necessary evil these days and experience has demonstrated that a CGC books get the highest return. |
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| Post 21 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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agamoto private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Batworldfan That spine stuff you mention is common with square bound books. It's due to uneven glue distribution along the spine of the book, or so I'm told. Production related stuff. As for the wrecked comment... If the bend damage is permanent, it's wrecked. It means they've taken a book that was nearly flawless and made it much worse and much less valuable. It would be like sending your already beautiful Maserati to a detailer so you can maximize its resale value, only to have them return it with dents in the fenders, dents which would most likely still be apparent even after they're pulled out. |
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| Post 22 • IP flag post | ||
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by agamoto This has not been my experience. I sell on eBay and I price my CBCS and CGC books exactly the same. I occasionally get someone who tries that and I ignore them. The vast majority of buyers see parity. But also, knowing what I know, CBCS being the more accurate graders and their cases superior to CGCs, why would I charge less? |
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| Post 23 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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agamoto private msg quote post Address this user | |
| With regards to third-party insurance, who's the provider? I've read that actually having to collect from these insurance companies can be a nightmare if the book hasn't already been put in a slab and assigned a grade value. You're stuck arguing over what the book was actually worth. Pretty sure I'd be limited to what I estimated the book's value to be when I submitted, which was well below the value of a 9.6. I didn't think it would get more than a 9.2 or so. | ||
| Post 24 • IP flag post | ||
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The apple sauce and pudding were the best part...
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Bronte private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @agamoto If you are referring to me, https://collectinsure.com I've never put a claim in so I have no idea if its easy or hard. As for value, I would imagine they would go by what the "stated" value was, not the actual. |
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| Post 25 • IP flag post | ||
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I'd like to say I still turned out alright, but that would be a lie.
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flanders private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I use collect insure but I've only had the policy a few months, have a collection worth less than $8500, and I've never had to file a claim. I figured the premium of less than $70 annually is well worth the cost considering that I purchase insurance through the post office for far greater than this when selling items and I can still charge buyer's for a lower insurance cost if I'd like and apply it to my premium. I can imagine it would be a headache in many circumstances and I don't know the specific terms regarding when the item is having worked performed on it by a vendor. | ||
| Post 26 • IP flag post | ||
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Collector
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Batworldfan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hey agamoto, thanks for the reply. I'm also wondering if too much overhang on cover edges could be causing these problems with both CBCS & CGC grading, they maybe shouldn't have graded them in the first place? What do you think looking back? Was the book pressed? Also I would send it back for pressing, at least. Once someone at CGC, gives you a better response, you should be due credit for lost value, if grade falls. |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a McNugget guzzler.
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HeinzDad private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Overhang is real, square bounds are a bitch no matter the age or condition. | ||
| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
 It's like the Roach Motel for comic collectors.
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chester15 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| For squarebounds, they need to add starch when they press. Like the Three Stooges episode where the pants come out of the press stiff as a board. | ||
| Post 29 • IP flag post | ||
 Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC?
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Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user | |
| That picture of the slab hurts my eyes and I feel for you. Thankfully I have had damage done to the dozen or so comics that I submitted to cgc or the couple of thousand that I have received back from CBCS. And now you have had two...That sucks. |
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