The old debate...Giant size 1 vs Hulk 181....12286
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| simple math...cgc census Hulk 181 13,305 copies Giant size 9,326 copies hulk 181 1006 copies in 9.2 ballpark 2800 copies in 9.0 or higher Giant size 2200 ballpark copies above 9.0 Giant size, white cover, square bound and 68 pages I think.... |
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
Hell get them both that’s what I did. GSX will close the gap but I don’t think it will ever pass it. If it does doesn’t really matter to me b/c I bought a nice 8.5 of both  |
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| Post 27 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town While I agree with your conclusion, I don't think you can get there just by looking at supply. You also have to factor in volume of transactions. According to these census numbers the supply of CGC slabbed Hulk 181 is approximately 40% greater than the supply of CGC slabbed GSX1. Interestingly, Ebay shows sales of approx. 50 CGC slabbed GSX1 since June 1, in the same time period Ebay showed approx. 70 sales of CGC slabbed Hulk 181...also a difference of 40%. I was hoping to find a sales volume difference that would be more useful in drawing a conclusion. |
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| Post 28 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Time will tell...be interesting to look again at this thread in another ninety days. I am not "just looking at supply" as I have given multiple points above to suggest the Giant size is the better investment now at least....but at the end of the day you also have to allow that the comic appears to have give or take 4,000 less copies than hulk 181, and as Hulk 181 continues its slide to lower levels, the various factors mentioned above seem to be pushing the Giant size higher... |
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 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| To a buyer that has neither book but can afford either book, I'd advise get the more important book which is IH181. If the buyer can afford both, get both. | ||
| Post 30 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| more important... One introduces a single character and is arguably his 2nd appearance....behind 180 where he does appear in at least a cameo role...that being another entire argument.A less than exceptional story with mediocre art...... The other book introduces ..Nightcrawler, Storm, Colossus, Thunderbird, Peter Rasputins sister that will eventually become Illyana, or Magik as we know her now. Also the 2nd FULL appearance of Wolverine...and truly the first time we see the character in the context of the x men as he will become more well known a set of characters all introduced to generate appeal across many countries as well as both sexes. A 68 page, well written and drawn book with a stunning cover by Gil Kane... Hard for me to argue the IH 181 is the more important book if you are being honest or realistic. A simpler way to state this … If you are Marvel moving forward with the cinematic, while they must balance the fans love for the wolverine character with the other characters, they also have to allow for the past ten years of movies that pretty well used wolverine in every possible manner and way to tears. …. I think it very likely they ease into this and do not attempt a major role for wolverine for several more movies...and allow some time to pass before trying to capitalize on the character. Having said that, we don't know what character or teams they might use or how they plan to go ...but its a fair chance that Storm or Colossus or Nightcrawler will have a place in it all... We do know in the coming few months we get the opening of the New Mutants movie, which will likely generate some excitement towards Illyana...although hard to say which book of hers most will figure as a key...her true first, her first appearance as Magik, or the issue of X-Men where she is first called by name.... |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I've never looked at the hobby as a 90 day, 120 day, 365 day investment period. Matter of fact, I've never looked at anything I have in my collections as an investment. I've come to realize that I just buy stuff or crap I like. Yep I wrote crap. At the end of the day, I could sell it all and really not miss it. OK, I'd keep 10 or 12 books and 10 or 12 pieces of the OA I own but the rest of it I haven't looked at in years. It just takes up space in a room in our home. 15 years ago, I never would have written that nor believed that. Why I keep buying I'm not clear on. At the end of the day, it is up to the individual collector to decide which book, or any book ends up in their collection. Looking back at the hobby and seeing that tastes, collecting style, and characters change then it isn't hard to imagine that in 10 years the hobby will have moved in directions none of us would have thought it would. Slabs have taken on a life of their own. As people got tired of buying comics via the internet that had been given a grade that was inflated the "safety" of buying them graded propelled that area of the hobby. 10 to 12 years ago I don't think I owned a slabbed book. 10 to 12 years ago I owned runs of different books. Now, I own only one run. Remember Gen13 craze? Remember Evil Ernie? Remember Lady Death? Remember the bad girl collector craze? Remember when Daredevil was well written and drawn? Remember the Lobo craze? Remember when the Punisher was everywhere? Remember Spawn Toys? Dare I write it...remember Wizard Magazine? The list goes on and on on what used to be desired, what drove it being desired, and now isn't. That same item might come full circle and be back on someone's list in the future.  |
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| Post 32 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Wolverine is leaps and bounds more popular and well known than Nightcrawler, Storm, Colossus, Thunderbird and Peter Rasputins sister although Storm is the one to pay attention to in that group. Well written and well drawn are subjective and is never a truly critical attribute to value. Both are fantastic books...no ones in dispute of this but 181 is the more important book. |
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| Post 33 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| You aren't getting my point here GAC...you are stuck in todayspeak. Yes most people would argue wolverine is by himself more important than those other characters although he isn't and never was ...but that's today....the question was, moving forward, which is the best investment. Wolverine has had his movies and more done with him than he really should have...people are fatigued with it all. Moving forward, other characters will now get their fifteen minutes and it will be a long time before Marvel really tries to push wolverine hard again. Also I tend to disagree with the view wolverine is leaps and bounds anything..to a young African girl Storm might be her spirit character...to a young Russian perhaps Colossus...Wolverine has his fans, but yeah, so do all those other characters, As for well written and drawn...okay if you think the wolverine wendigo circle jerk story told was on par with Giant size x men 1's tale, that's your view and you are entitled...most would agree Giant size with its 68 page story was far superior...the art inside..Dave Cockrum, is far beyond the level achieved in 181, and I would venture to say most would agree. Again, it isn't really something that is even subjective...its mediocre vs stunning.Cover art...again, hands down, that Gil Kane cover. Not sure why someone would argue because even subjective has degrees. Hulk 181 did not establish a team of new characters, using both sexes, as well as various ethnic backgrounds....looking around at todays political climate I think that has far more bearing than the establishment of a single character, when you place it in context of comic book history. Everyone is entitled to their view of course....but the gap is closing fast, and the Giant size book which is far less common and far more difficult to get in higher grades, is showing its power |
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| Post 34 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| oh hey I just thought of a wolverine story marvel could do that is new and not tired and used already...Wolverine-wang! It worked for batman right? | ||
| Post 35 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I understand what you're saying...moving forward...I don't think GSX1 will ever be worth more than IH181. I think GSX1 has room to grow for sure and the gap in value will shrink between them but it won't pass 181 in value. My personal opinion on the quality of story and art is irrelevant (for the record, I agree that GSX1 is superior to 181 on this criteria). What I meant by that is attitudes on quality of story and art is subjective (and it is subjective) and has no significant bearing on the values of key comics. You say I'm stuck in "todayspeak" and then use todays political climate to support your point. GSX1 is a great book with many positives but my opinion, moving forward, long term speculation, investment minded is that 181 will always be worth more. The gap could shrink between them but I'd bank on 181. This obviously goes without saying but either side of this debate is a guess. No one knows the answer until the future reveals it. I'd bet on 181. |
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| Post 36 • IP flag post | ||
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moodswing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| If someone is dropping 2k+ on a book, I strongly doubt they care about the story. I consider myself a big Wolverine and X-Men fan but I don't think I have ever read X-Men 1. That isn't preventing me from putting that at the top of my want list. I would say the cover is more important. Hulk 181 is an iconic cover. It is constantly voted one of the greatest covers of all time. There are 100s of homage covers. In terms of movies, there was a reason Fox started putting Wolverine at the forefront of all their movies. Hint it wasn't because he is an inspiration to all Canadians. Disney likes money and they will push Wolverine big time. I fully expect him to show up hunting Hulk which in turn will spike 181 again. Look at what 340 is doing. With value and price, My hulk 181 I bought a couple years ago has appreciated and my copy of gsx has basically stayed the same. Last I checked, if I sold today, I would be losing money. I paid right around the going rate for the comic but mine at least has white pages. The lack of appreciation is very concerning to me because every other x-men comic I have been tracking is spiking hard. Why isn't this one? I am really hoping you are right about GSX. |
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| Post 37 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
They could do it this way. It would be new. They'd be first appearances. What an investment!  |
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| Post 38 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @moodswing Good point! Even though Wolverine has had the movie treatment already, he hasn't had the Marvel/Disney treatment yet. When they introduce Wolverine hunting the Hulk...you're right, 181 will go nuclear. | ||
| Post 39 • IP flag post | ||
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Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user | |
| There’s a reason I bought 181 first | ||
| Post 40 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Steverogers11 Me too, my 181s were purchased before my GSX1s. | ||
| Post 41 • IP flag post | ||
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Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user | |
| that would likely be some years off if ever...as for 340 I assign that more to the cover art...which in your own words... "It is constantly voted one of the greatest covers of all time. There are 100s of homage covers. " With Mcfarlane actively signing hundreds of copies of the book, it tends to get a lot of attention as does his spawn and amazing Spiderman work. My history with giant size x men 1...my copy bought in 1987 in perhaps 8.0 grade I paid 87 dollars for...and is currently moving in the 2k range for that grade. Yep, horrible investment for sure...  Oh and btw, if I am dropping 2k for a book the story and art better bring something to the table or it isn't happening. Part of the reason I have dumped the copies of 181 I have had...it doesn't deliver. I also wouldn't look too hard for any movie featuring wolverine and Hulk, anytime soon. The big green guy has never delivered well in sales, and he is currently a genius in the MCU with banners intelligence. |
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| Post 42 • IP flag post | ||
 Please continue to ignore anything I post.
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southerncross private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Hard to say which will be the better investment. As prices on those 2 books go up and prices the working person out for these. They will go for the second tier books. Not taking into consideration the net profit but the percentile increases. Hulk 180 1st cameo and uncanny X-Men 94 I think have the highest gains percentage wise. Wolverine has been a popular character since the 80s and though his popularity will drop or go up over the years. I could see kids seeing the wolverine movie and as they hit adulthood and disposable income aquire his first full or cameo appearance. This same statement can also apply to the X-Men movies. Only time will tell. |
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| Post 43 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Steverogers11 Yep, and before that I picked up a copy of Spider-Man 129. I picked up giant sized recently compared to those purchases. It was an afterthought. |
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| Post 44 • IP flag post | ||
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moodswing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Steverogers11 Me too. Hulk 181 first then GSX. |
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| Post 45 • IP flag post | ||
 I'm a #2.
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BigRedOne1944 private msg quote post Address this user | |
 Gil Kane is one of the All-time great cover artist, but his GSX1 cover was not some of his best work IMHO. His Wolverine is kind of lack luster. I think it pales in comparison to masterful work Herb Trimpe did on that Hulk #181. His inks are much deeper and defined, and the over all action layout of the cover is much more appealing to me. Trimpe's Iconic cover wins hands down every time to me. |
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| Post 46 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I like the GSX1 cover..to me it's a very cool cover but I do agree with @BigRedOne1944 that the 181 cover is the better one. It's a classic image capturing what's become an iconic rivalry. | ||
| Post 47 • IP flag post | ||
 Thank you sir. May I have another?
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Siggy private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by GAC I wish I could say I bought it off the rack, but I'm happy with the $120 I irresponsibly [then] spent on my #181 31 years ago. I'm late to the GSX1 game, but still early enough not to cringe, especially since it's now a 7.5 (from a 6.5). I'd rather have the 181 (and his 1st app. in 180) since all the classic Wolverine stories can be traced back to them. FWIW. |
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| Post 48 • IP flag post | ||
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I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Siggy Would love to say I bought it off the rack myself but can't....the 1st 181 I bought I paid $220 which graded at a CBCS 6.0.....the 2nd one I bought many years later, I paid $600 and it graded a CBCS 4.5. 180 is definitely his 1st appearance and that book has made impressive advances in value. I think the general consensus is 181 then GSX1 but obviously both books are winners. |
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| Post 49 • IP flag post | ||
 To answer your question, no, this is not where the comics go to die.
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MutantMania private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Fortunately I was able to get both of them before the internet and grading slabs came around. I believe I got them for a buck or less like lots of others at garage sales and swap meets. The most I spent in those days on any individual book was probably $5.00 and that was even to much for me. I just got spoiled and I miss those days  But for the sake of this argument if I had to choose one I would pick the GSX 1. The Uncanny X-Men was my first superhero type comic that I started reading so it has always been my favorite  |
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| Post 50 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Paid $35 for my 181 copy which is a 3.5. Paid $100 for my Giant Sized. The giant sized was pressed and came back as a 7.0. They are both books that people would pay in the neighborhood of $1500.00 each for today. No way I'd invest that type of money in either. The hobby's prices have gotten insane. | ||
| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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moodswing private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I will say this though. If 2 spider clone characters are fetching 1.5k, when we get some xmen news about any of these characters, I fully expect the comics to really blow up. If a variant can reach 3k I can only imagine what a comic book franchise with a large following like the X-men will bring in. I didn't know anyone reading ultimate spider-man before Miles blew up. I at least know and talk to current x-men fans. | ||
| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| GSX #1 | ||
| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I'm wondering if people's answers will change if we re-framed the question: Assuming you own neither one and you have exactly $1,500 to spend, which of these two books would you buy currently at Fair Market Value? I'm sure someone will say both or neither, but how about if you had to choose either option A or option B? A copy of Hulk 181 with $1,500 FMV or a nicer copy of GSX1 with $1,500 FMV? For me it would be GSX1, hands down. Doesn't mean I wouldn't love to own a copy of Hulk 181, doesn't mean that I think GSX1 should be more valuable in the same grade, I just think GSX1 is the book that will see the larger growth in demand going forward. |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbaySeller My answer is that there are few books I would drop $1500+ on. The market and the pricing has moved beyond my comfort level. When books like Teen Titans #12 (2017) are selling for stupid prices it makes me believe that there is too much speculation driving the market. At some point it isn't sustainable. I remember the music ending in the mid-1990's. Whomever gets caught holding overpriced books when the music stops playing I hope they are young and they do not have much invested in them. That way they can recover. |
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