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CGC VS CBCS12155

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I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 21.33K	21.33K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Enelson Ha, I haven't been on here much recently...happy to see in our changing world that some things stay the same Just yesterday I was saying to myself "i haven't heard from @Enelson for quite a while, i hope he's ok" and bam here you are. good to hear from you and yes somethings never change.
	5 years ago	Post 101 • IP flag post

I have a problem with fattening women up. 40.56K	40.56K Bronte private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 5
	@starlord It's one thing to be wanting to get a decent price. It's another to be insulting. I try and be mindful of that when offering a price to a person. As for your personal life, you lead it in a way that makes you happy. How many of us can say we do the same? How many can say we do for others when most just think of themselves? In this day and age, kindness, generosity and empathy I find are hard qualities to find in others. (Granted, I am far from perfect as well.)
	5 years ago	Post 102 • IP flag post

I hear their hourly rate is outrageous! 21.33K	21.33K sportshort private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	@starlord, although I love my job, I think I would love it more if it involved comics so, good for you! keep living the dream and all the best.
	5 years ago	Post 103 • IP flag post

Joined The Club 3.61K	3.61K Steverogers11 private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 9
	Welcome the new cgc forum. Seems like that’s where we were going for a min lol
	5 years ago	Post 104 • IP flag post

Collector* 10.54K	10.54K Towmater private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 7
	Quote: Originally Posted by Steverogers11 Welcome the new cgc forum. Seems like that’s where we were going for a min lol
	5 years ago	Post 105 • IP flag post

Collector 980	980 BrashSmurf private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	I prefer CBCS and will never use CGC again CGC lost my Spawn 174, got it back but it has never happened with CBCS The order of 10 books submitted to CGC 6 of them rattle in the case like they are lose. Has never happened with CBCS
	5 years ago	Post 106 • IP flag post

I have a problem with fattening women up. 40.56K	40.56K Bronte private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 2
	So I emailed CGC asking if there is a cutoff on when graders notes stop taking place.( I had a 9.2 book with no notes recently graded.) Here is their response. Thank you for your email. Graders' notes are an internal means of communication between the graders. Notes are made at the grader's discretion, they are not guaranteed but are provided as a courtesy to paid members and dealers. Please let us know if you have any additional questions I provider the order number and other identifiers to the book in question so I guess that means my particular book has no notes. (I submitted the book under my own account )
	5 years ago	Post 107 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.96K	60.96K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	It was a courtesy of the cgc to offer you the response you received.
	5 years ago	Post 108 • IP flag post

I have a problem with fattening women up. 40.56K	40.56K Bronte private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	To be honest, I am thrilled the book got the grade it did. However, as a completely incompetent grader, I wanted to see what other faults the book had that could not be addressed. This was in the hopes to educate myself on what could or could not be pressed in future submissions to any company.
	5 years ago	Post 109 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.96K	60.96K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Quote: Originally Posted by Steverogers11 Welcome the new cgc forum. Seems like that’s where we were going for a min lol It looks as though that has been rectified.
	5 years ago	Post 110 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus 31.49K	31.49K CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town You seem to be summoning some dark, ghost in the machine highly secretive information to discredit the census, by stating trust you, you are well informed. I agree the census is likely as you use the term...imperfect...but then again so is gocollect and you defend it in the same breathe. The degree of inaccuracy is always going to be somewhat open to discussion but the point is , it is still adequate to spot trends and determine how many of a given book are higher grade vs lower grade. It feels like you are implying CGC only registers or reveals what books it chooses in what grades it chooses which would accomplish what deep Machivellian purpose? Simply reporting the grades and number of books. If that census tells me ten thousand copies of New mutants grade above 9.6 then I can get a pretty good concept that paying premium prices for a book that common in high grade is pointless. If that figure they are reporting is ten comics or a hundred comics out of whack how does that alter the basic trend the information is demonstrating? It doesn't, and that is the value in a census. Arguing that people break and resubmit books is a red herring...if they broke and resubmitted ten copies of Hulk 1 its probably a similar degree of resubmission with Daredevil 1 or JIM 83..it is imperfect..but then that's the acceptable standard for gocollect you have applied . Again and no, regarding your four years comment....cbcs has only NOW offered a census and registry. You don't seem to be grasping that without that tool it would be pointless to report their sales prior to that event. Four years has zero bearing...now that they have taken the step to make their census and registry verifiable and transparent it makes sense. Projecting your thoughts that a business must by your thinking include full one stop disclosure of information is faulty logic. Again they clearly state what they offer, who they are and what it is....demanding a caterpillar grow ten more legs to suit your idea of asthetics doesn't alter the basic evolution of the species. They don't choose to and haven't to this point for which I myself am glad...(see comments regarding census and registry) If they do now alter their methods that might be an interesting and wise choice, I agree, but until now, no it would havge been a flawed choice I think if you feel that passionate at this theme, it might be a valid choice and decision to form your own analysis company and offer only reporting for CBCS slabs, all things being equal. But end of the day you can bet you would defend your right to operate that business as you felt it best serves rather than how others might demand you do so. You are trying to argue signed books are now...a separate hobby? Fair enough..perhaps golden agee comics should be a separate hobby and silver age, and people that collect newsstands, or foreign editions...lets just eliminate anyone that does it differently than I do...that would certainly make a valid excuse for then omitting that data from the service. We shove those damn variant collectors out of our hobby altogether.....and the collectors that collect treasuries and even the digest sized comics can go too...we can remove everyone that gocollect failed to provide data for and that should fix it.Anything that works at different dynamics and has values affected by anything but grade can just be removed... Gocollect isn't missing data by accident, they simply have failed to get agreement to include data from anywhere except Ebay. They manually mine the information they supply from Hakes, HA, CConnect and comiclink, and mechanically harvest ebay sales. This means the differing methods themselves create issues...mechanical failures to remove sales that were later determined as shill sales etc, or feedback driving events that were not actual sales etc...wheres using the human method, there is always a certain degree of error by input....but the bottom line is that they have no reporting for a massive section of the market and have simply failed to get it done by negotiation, discussion or effort...failure to INCLUDE DATA, meaning MISSING DATA. I dodged nothing, that was precisely my point. You hold GPA massively responsible because they do not provide sales for CBCS slabs but then give gocollect free reign and endorsement for reporting what amounts to a tenth of the market at best and using those figures as stand alones to somehow determine they cover more sales and auctions (your own words) despite the fact they simply do not....because they cannot report sales from places like MCS and multiple other avenues that GPA did the legwork and negotiating to get the right to report. I agree the data shouldn't be kept out of anyones reach but that's the system that exists now...until its fixed. Given that, it then is mercurial to use the service that most cross reports the given market rather than their own select portion they were ABLE TO ACCESS.....if you argue that GPA is missing lots of data then try to somehow argue that gocollect includes more simply because they report all companies slab sales, you aren't really understanding what gocollect is and is not reporting. You made this statement above...."I've found work arounds for a lot of the GoCollect data I need." This implies you were not able to find work arounds for the rest of the data you need....meaning at least some amount of time was spent both finding working, and also non working solutions for each issue, whether it falls into the resolved or unresolved category. Sounds like a lot of time to me, so if I exaggerated please forgive me but it does appear you are quite readily condemning GPA for choosing to be soley inclusive while defending and supporting another service that is why yes...unable or lacking needed data.....missing needed information. Above you stated that signed books are driven by a whole separate set of factors aside from grade...ie desireability of the particular signer, his status among collectors, living or dead, where or perhaps when it was signed, etc.You took that as license to suggest it should be a separate hobby removed from ours based on differing factors aside from grade. You then blanket argue that...in your words...."indeed our collecting ambitions probably differ, but in respect to analytical services there shouldn’t be distinctions between our respective interests." No distinctions, except for the signed books apparently? You collect high end golden age books for which a census is both unlikely to contain a high number and where a given quantity being off even two copies might profoundly impact the data....it makes a less than perfectly accurate census discardable for you I collect multiple mid grade copies of various silver age titles for various reasons...but I can spot trends what is common based on sometimes as many as three -four thousand copies in the census, making a small error within census data while "imperfect" quite useful..... You , from the books you have posted appear to key and lock In on books that might be the sole highest copy or one an existing handful in that grade for that book..it is amazing. It is also entirely a different method of collecting than mine, wherein I am shopping multiple copies of my FF 25 in mid grades, that are easily obtainable. I believe there are enough distinctions that make your pursuit different than mine..if we are to remove signed books, to also remove golden age high grade collectors...so then what? See the distinction emerging? You can argue gocollect is a better service if you like and suggest GPA is failing expectations because they refuse to include other companies slabs but at the end of the day..GPA is including more sales data, across a broader spectrum to the standard collector as demonstrated above. Their data is "imperfect" inso asmuch as is gocollect...as far as raw data...so then you must examine the level of coverage....a service that covers four venues or one that covers 40...yes 40 venues. This quote from their homepage …."By tracking, recording, and averaging over 40 online venues, GPA does the work for you, saving you time and money." The single issue you have evidenced is they do not and ignored your request to include CBCS slabs four years ago and that they appear to be a "tool" for reporting CGC sales. Science magazines and journals serve as "tools" for reporting science findings...so by this logic we would also question their integrity. Weather channels serve as "tools" for reporting meteorologists reports and information...non clandestine as well. The list goes for a good length...many companies serve as " tools" for reporting information from selected venues as well. I don't think you have made a great case that Gocollect with their four sales venue reporting methods is hands down and twice on sundays a better service than GPA who reports from 40 venues. Sure your mileage may vary but end of the day I prefer to use a service with more sales data reported across a larger spectrum of the market, and inclusive of all areas of the hobby regarding slabs sales...signed, variants, etc. I myself feel the census is valid for a qualifier to bring CBCS into contention and be considered for inclusion now, for the reasons I have offered...I can look to the future and at least hope that also sinks in for GPA..now their clock is running. On the other hand I doubt you will see the market alter its standing for sales data, with most business contending it is proprietary and refusing gocollect similar access. Sadly many of those auction houses seem to only want the highest sales reported, and to limit who gets to report them. I’m reluctant to respond here because the conversation has moved on and I’m not interested in pursuing a circular debate over this issue. Nevertheless, it behooves me to politely clarify challenges to my earlier response which I’ve either failed to enunciate properly or left open to misinterpretation. 1) There’s no “dark, ghost in the machine highly secretive information to discredit the census” going on here. I’m merely stating the obvious fact about any census based on information provided via an honor system. Unless the system can account for every grading resubmission there will be errors. The only question is the percentage of inaccuracy in the records. 2) The argument that an analytical service only provide data from sales of grading services with a census is ludicrous. Census numbers have nothing to do with recording the sales data of individual books of specific grades. 3) Discrediting all census data was never stated nor implied. Census data can be useful within a reasonable margin of error the caveats being that a) one must assume there are likely to be double entries from undisclosed resubmission grade bumps, and b) with two census those errors are likely to multiply. 4) My meager defense of GoCollect is simply based on their effort to cover all major sales from the two main competing comic grading services. GC may fall short in your estimation, but is more than adequate for my requirements. The time I spend searching for the information on Go Collect is negligible. GPA fails in catching the essential data in spite of a wider net. 5) What my informed opinions “feel like” to you are mistaken. I’m not ascribing a devious ploy by the CGC to cook their books on census data even if they’re in bed with GPA. While I can attest to known errors in the CGC census, I’m not suggesting any malfeasance on the part of the company. The flaws are systemic, not conspiratorial. 6) Census numbers matter most with scarce books, those existing in the tens, rather than the hundreds or thousands. Most of what I collect ...especially in high grade... falls into the former category. Your 9.6 analogy holds true when vast quantities are weighed against an individual book’s value. This is where different strokes apply dependent upon what you collect. 7) Four years hasn’t changed GPA’s approach to data provision or their rationale for omitting CBCS data. I don’t recall GPA ever using the lack of a census and registry to explain away their failure to provide CBCS sales data, but assuming that’s the case, a new explanation will likely be concocted to provide cover for bias if it exists as I believe it does. 8) Your caterpillar analogy makes no allusion to evolution of species or impact on nature. I’m less concerned with the number of legs a caterpillar possesses than whether the end result is a moth or a butterfly. Each has it’s own purpose in nature, but the latter tends to be more beneficial than the former. 9) Comic collecting covers a lot of ground, but it is indeed different than signature collection. Grade is generally more important to comic collectors, verification of authenticity is more important to autograph collectors. I’m not suggesting a total separation of the hobbies, just pointing out a division of interests that seems to be your deal breaker for data analysis. 10) You’re right that I don’t mind GoCollect efforts to mine data from so-called proprietary sales. All auction sale data should be available to the public, period, end of story. The slippery slope is allowing auction providers to charge for market sales data that should be publicly disclosed under the law. 11) Legwork and negotiating are two different processes. You’re assuming the legwork hasn’t been done because the end result doesn’t meet your criteria for accomplishment. However, you can’t know what efforts at negotiating were made nor what positions were held by those clutching their precious data. If we assume some data providers are taking a proprietary stance, they may have erected financial or exclusionary barriers that GoCollect can’t breach. 12) GPA’s advertising claims about tracking 40 sources and doing the work for you is meaningless if the information collection intentionally omits CBCS sales data across the board. 13) For my purposes, a data analysis service that covers the primary auction sales of both CGC and CBCS encapsulated books is critical information in respect to establishing market values. I’ll take the imperfect over cherry picked data every time. 14) If we assume that data collection is a tool for collectors, then both services have value to their subscribers. If GPA is a tool for CGC, then the word takes on a whole new meaning. 15) Are 40 herbs and spices better than four? Perhaps, but the ones adding very little flavor will never be as critical to the overall taste of the product as the big four. 16) We can agree that the proprietary nature of auction/sales data is fueling the contentious debate over data analysis service. This is one part of our collective hobby that would be better served by across the board openness. Sorry about the length of this. Hopefully I’ve covered all the relevant points in a clear, concise and inoffensive manner. .
	5 years ago	Post 111 • IP flag post

I've spent years perfecting my brand of assholery. 60.96K	60.96K DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 14
	Quote: Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica I’m hesitant to respond here... I shudder at the prospect of the response if one had been enthusiastic.
	5 years ago	Post 112 • IP flag post

Collector 6.31K	6.31K AndyRexia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 5
	@DrWatson lmao
	5 years ago	Post 113 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	I think I have done what I intended to do, in establishing that Gocollect is far from being hands and above the best choice and twice on sunday, and dispelling the flawed concept that they somehow report more sales and data than GPA. Regarding some of the points offered above, I already clearly established reasoning why a census would be integral to reporting sales data...and the necessity for a registry for looking up and verifying data. Regardless if everyone uses the data likewise, it is quite obvious why it would be necessary ...nevermind the use in detecting fraudulent sales, etc. Some might feel gocollect and their limited reach, only 4 venues catches more data than GPA with their 40 covered venues. I beg to differ...quite seriously so in fact. Further implying a dedicated service like GPA who has clearly stated they serve to report CGC sales, as "cherrypicking" data, but then giving gocollect a pass for not including signed books seems.....odd, to say the least. The argument that now that GPA may or may not include CBCS and that there is a certainty some new excuse will arise is of course, both a logical fallacy, suggesting this must then follow that, and a very negative outlook. I say give them a chance, they might see the value in doing so. I don't think that they have had a serious reason to consider doing so prior as I said earlier based on the reasonings already given. beneficial in nature is never the basis for evolution...important lesson...the laws of survival are more simply put that an animal that adapts to best suit its surroundings and given living criteria will most likely continue moving its genes forward. One with a failure to adapt is more likely to extinct. Lets see how that plays out with the sales reporting businesses. Gocollect has no excuse for "not breaching" anyones barrier for data use...either get up to the table and run with the big dogs or sit down...negotiate, legwork or purchase, regardless, there is a way to do it because the model already exists and it has been done before. Until such time as they do, sorry but they don't get a pass for failing to gather that data. We know it can be done...it is possible. "GPA’s advertising claims about tracking 40 sources and doing the work for you is meaningless if the data collection intentionally omits CBCS sales data across the board." That would be your opinion...one many simply do not endorse. For some the CBCS data is simply not the deal breaker it is being made to be here, especially from a service, that why yes, is a stated reporting tool according to their business statement for CGC data. "13) For my purposes, a data analysis service that covers the primary auction sales of both CGC and CBCS encapsulated books is critical information in respect to establishing market values. I’ll take the imperfect over cherry picked data every time. to be fair here, what you are saying is...for your purposes a data analysis service that covers the primary auction sales of both CGC and CBCS encapsulated books is critical information in respect to establishing market values. You will take the apparently imperfect but also cherry picked data over other data you have suggested is cherry picked because their business model does not include all encapsulating companies, every time. Be fair with it..if Gocollect only includes 4 venues and excludes signed books, that is cherrypicking as blatantly as the accusation of GPA doing so with CGC books. Cherrypicking is cherrypicking. 15) are 40 herbs and spices better than four? Perhaps, but the ones adding very little flavor will never be as critical to the overall taste of the product as the big four. Stated of course by someone who has refused for four years to eat or consume the forty spice variety to determine what it does/does not taste like...fair enough. Incidentally not all spices and herbs impart flavorings, some work to preserve, alter texture or even to remove or lower the level of another flavor that isn't as desireable..for instance salting fish often removes the "wild" taste....so unsure if that analogy works for the context. I do know if I am pricing or checking a book I wish to buy I want the most complete reporting of its sales I can find....across all possible venues. Auctions, consignment boards, sales houses, I need to see it all. I again readily agree all auction and sales data should be readily available...for the most part it is ...but you have to do that legwork yourself. GPA brings 40 of those venues to your screen, and I prefer that over missing signed books, and the other 36 venues as well as data that often contains errors. We use the services differently obviously and clearly and your opinion is yours to have...but yeah , attempting to argue that gocollect covers more sales or reports more data or does not cherrypick is false. End of the day we all do it differently and use different things to get there...good on you if gocollect does it for you. I only offer that GPA has a lot to offer as well, and is in no way inferior. Last I have to offer on topic, and thanks for your thoughts!
	5 years ago	Post 114 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Is a mechanic an authority on the issues a car can suffer? I would suggest yes..is a chef an authority on how to prepare food...I would say yes...is an artist an authority on artwork ..yes So just by participating one is defined as an authority? I like this definition because my resume just expanded by about 3 pages. However, I participate in this forum regularly, but certainly would not consider myself an authority on this forum specifically or forums in general.
	5 years ago	Post 115 • IP flag post

He sounds like a vegan who wants real mayonnaise to be vegan friendly. 1.55K	1.55K Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Not getting into the argument when it comes to GoCollect. So instead I want to state that I was both a brief and now a former member of NintendoAge. NintendoAge was site that GoCollect's Jeff Meyer had purchased, and this included both all of the writing and handling of what would otherwise have been public information. Information that even former members would like to recreate, but only to do it in a way that it does not violate GoCollect's ownership rights. And if I had to disagree on one thing, it has to be the way @theCapraAegagrus used a chef in their argument. Based on what history dictates, it is incorrect. That is not an argument, but a fact. Because again, there is history behind that portion of said argument. Plus it has been proven many times in the past that data, including recipes, cannot be replicated without permission from the owner. The basics can be used, but the handling has to be done in a way that nobody could be accused of plagiarism. Hence why the two options are to ether create new data or buy what is readily available. Something I know about because Beckett hired me to do freelance work when it came to two Dragon Ball Z articles. So do I need to say more? I hope not. Because the point of everything I am saying here is that GoCollect has the authority to include, or omit, any data with any reason they see fit. In many cases they can say "Little Red Riding Hood" is the reason they do not add CBCS, and there is nothing others can do. Other than create a database that does not infringe on GoCollect's ownership-led rights. And as for CGC and CBCS, as well as ever other grading company, they are also an authority. Not when it comes to who agrees or disagrees with their data, but how they handle said data. Because unless they use third-party information (as CAS did by mistake, as it was requested by a client), the information they offer is their take on said data. Which makes them an authority over that. sighs So again... I am not taking sides, or even dismissing anything either side has stated. Because the whole argument is pointless. Especially when there are troves of data stating that "ownership = authority" when it comes to copyright laws, etc. Now if you do not mind... I want to hear why one side prefers CGC over CBCS, and vice-versa. Not one side being adamant over what the other side says, nor how the other side is too stubborn to find a middle ground to all of this.
	5 years ago	Post 116 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus 31.49K	31.49K CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by DrWatson Quote: Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica I’m hesitant to respond here... I shudder at the prospect of the response if one had been enthusiastic.
	5 years ago	Post 117 • IP flag post

He sounds like a vegan who wants real mayonnaise to be vegan friendly. 1.55K	1.55K Instant_Subtitles private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Ugh... After writing, proof checking, editing, deleting, re-writing, wash, rinse, and repeat... I have the sudden urge to get Udon's Secret Wars and The Walking did homage covers, submit them to CGC, and have them include their Spider-Man (or Venom) and The Walking Dead labels.
	5 years ago	Post 118 • IP flag post

Collector 14.3K	14.3K Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbaySeller Quote: Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town Is a mechanic an authority on the issues a car can suffer? I would suggest yes..is a chef an authority on how to prepare food...I would say yes...is an artist an authority on artwork ..yes So just by participating one is defined as an authority? I like this definition because my resume just expanded by about 3 pages. However, I participate in this forum regularly, but certainly would not consider myself an authority on this forum specifically or forums in general. Apparently never quite enough trolling...earlier in the thread I posted a literal dictionary definition of authority...nowhere did it suggest merely participating makes one an authority..in fact it clearly stated that an authority would have great skill or knowledge in a given area....that has been the contention, not participation as suggested here.
	5 years ago	Post 119 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus 31.49K	31.49K CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 11
	When I bought this book it had been cracked out, but included the CGC label with misattributed cover art. It's worth noting that CGC still apparently misattributes the art to Claire Moe on MM#2 to this day... When resubmitted it went to CBCS. Even though the restoration is arguably professional rather than amateur, I much prefer the CBCS label with correct cover art attribution... It's been awhile, but given the differences in labels today, I prefer the cleaner design of CBCS labels over CGC's current billboard label even more. .
	5 years ago	Post 120 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 0
	If CBCS wants to get GPA to include them I think the best angle is to argue the rising importance of the Verified Signature market. In my opinion verifying un-witnessed signatures is the core strength of CBCS. GPA simply doesn't need CBCS sales data to establish a market price for regular slabbed books. It would not bring them very many additional customers. CGC makes up about 90% of that market, and adding another 10% won't make their data any more informative. It will only open up arguments about why the less reputable grading companies are excluded. But in the Verified Signature market CBCS is a major player and, with the current value of many un-witnessed signatures, it would be hard to argue against including sales of CBCS books in that data.
	5 years ago	Post 121 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus 31.49K	31.49K CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbaySeller If CBCS wants to get GPA to include them I think the best angle is to argue the rising importance of the Verified Signature market. In my opinion verifying un-witnessed signatures is the core strength of CBCS. GPA simply doesn't need CBCS sales data to establish a market price for regular slabbed books. It would not bring them very many additional customers. CGC makes up about 90% of that market, and adding another 10% won't make their data any more informative. It will only open up arguments about why the less reputable grading companies are excluded. But in the Verified Signature market CBCS is a major player and, with the current value of many un-witnessed signatures, it would be hard to argue against including sales of CBCS books in that data. I think this has to be more of a ground-up kind of thing. Subscribers need to keep the heat on, questioning GPA's legitimacy as an analytical data provider if they fail to include CBCS auction and sales data. As stated earlier in this thread, I dropped their service four years ago. If enough folks boycotted the data service they might be forced to reconsider their position. Of course, if GPA has some kind of exclusionary deal ($$$) with CGC then no amount of cajoling will get them to budge. But any incentivized arrangement that ignores or withholds data impacting market stability by driving down a competing grading service's value might be argued is restraint of trade. The following information was obtained through a quick Google search... At the most basic level, "restraint of trade" is any activity that prevents another party from conducting business as they normally would without such a restraint. For instance, two businesses agreeing to fix prices in order to put another competitor out of business is an illegal restraint of trade. Other examples include creating a monopoly, coercing another party to stop competing with your business, or unlawfully interfering with a business deal (see Tortious Interference). However, not all restraints of trade are unlawful, including non-competition agreements with employees in states where such agreements -- if considered reasonable -- are enforceable. The doctrine of restraint of trade is rooted in English common law and codified under U.S. statutes (specifically, the Clayton Act and the Federal Trade Commission Act) and various state antitrust laws. While federal (Sherman Antitrust Act) and some state laws treat restraint of trade and other antitrust acts as a crime, parties that suffer losses from such actions may seek monetary recovery in civil court. This article focuses on civil lawsuits for economic losses resulting from unlawful restraint of trade. I realize that LLCs fall under a different classification allowing exclusivity deals that get around restraint laws, but I'm not sure that would apply the same way to data service arrangements that impact market values. Note: I'm NOT a lawyer nor have I ever played one on TV!
	5 years ago	Post 122 • IP flag post

Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC? 16K	16K Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 3
	Quote: Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica Note: I'm NOT a lawyer nor have I ever played one on TV! But, it would seem you slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
	5 years ago	Post 123 • IP flag post

I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this. 80.52K	80.52K GAC private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Quote: Originally Posted by EbaySeller If CBCS wants to get GPA to include them I think the best angle is to argue the rising importance of the Verified Signature market. In my opinion verifying un-witnessed signatures is the core strength of CBCS. GPA simply doesn't need CBCS sales data to establish a market price for regular slabbed books. It would not bring them very many additional customers. CGC makes up about 90% of that market, and adding another 10% won't make their data any more informative. It will only open up arguments about why the less reputable grading companies are excluded. But in the Verified Signature market CBCS is a major player and, with the current value of many un-witnessed signatures, it would be hard to argue against including sales of CBCS books in that data. I agree that the VSP is huge and a positive thing in our hobby but I don't think that will change GPAs mind. GPA is a CGC tool. Their modus operandi is not to benefit the hobby but to benefit CGC. This is why GoCollect, in my opinion is superior because they capture both companies sales. Even if GoCollect doesn't capture sales from MCS or other large retailers it doesn't matter because they capture enough data from eBay, HA, Comic Connect, Comic Link etc. to formulate an accurate sales picture. As long as your sample size is large enough you get an accurate picture, which GoCollect does. Excluding an entire competitor (like GPA excluding CBCS) is far worse and erroneous (I'd even go so far to call it misleading) than excluding some retailers.
	5 years ago	Post 124 • IP flag post

Leftover Sundae Gnus

31.49K

CatmanAmerica private msg quote post Address this user

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Scifinator
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
Note: I'm NOT a lawyer nor have I ever played one on TV!

But, it would seem you slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Never received proper compensation for that either!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatmanAmerica
I’m hesitant to respond here...

I shudder at the prospect of the response if one had been enthusiastic.

Changed it to “reluctant” because I wasn’t hesitant enough in retrospect.

5 years ago

Collector 5.69K	5.69K Jabberwookie private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 4
	Holy Shnikes! Whole lot of shaking going on here... I’ve heard that CBCS books don’t get the same value as CGC, but I’m not seeing it as much lately. Graded slabbed books seem to, more or less get the same dollar amount. I’m guessing that while people like us debate CGC or CBCS, a big chunk of buyers treat it like calling all tissue “Kleenex” or when your grandmother called all video game systems “Nintendo.” I’m not selling for awhile, so I’m prepared to wait it out.
	5 years ago	Post 126 • IP flag post

Have I told you about the time I dropped off 3,000 comics at SDCC? 16K	16K Scifinator private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 9
	I am finally going to chime in on the price/value aspect. I do believe that the market, as a whole, still tends to discount CBCS under that of cgc, though i have seen a tightening. That said, I will pay more for a CBCS than a cgc as I can trust the grading accuracy. In my experience, if one wants to "auction" a comic cgc will likely get a higher price than a CBCS, but again the disparity seems to be narrowing. If one is going to "Fixed Price" sell a comic the disparity seems to narrow even further and may even see parity, though a little more patience may be needed. As an example, just this month of June alone, Spider-Man 2099 # 1 in 9.8 has sold 10 times one ebay under a Fixed Price Listings. The average sales price is $92.76 with a range of $75 - $120. There was my CBCS which sold for $109.90 and 9 cgc's, which only 2 of those sold at a higher prices of $110 and $120. Empirical evidence? No. But anecdotally, that is what I am seeing. As more people come to realize that CBCS grading is more accurate, conservative if you will, added with the free grading notes, acceptance of non-upstart status, and a large supply of Steve's in their team, I suspect price disparity will continue to dissipate and may even surpass in due time. This is why my Force Ghost collection is well over 95% CBCS! I have spoken.
	5 years ago	Post 127 • IP flag post

past performance is no guarantee of future actions. 31.77K	31.77K KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Damned you CGC!!! looking at 2 Jimmy Olsen 9.0's..both CGC one looks worlds better....but of course no grader notes publicly available so I can't see what has dropped that one down....the nicer one is of course $200 more than the not so nice 9.0 The cheapskate part of me want the less expensive one but visually the other is the hands down winner!
	5 years ago	Post 128 • IP flag post

past performance is no guarantee of future actions. 31.77K	31.77K KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 1
	Quote: Originally Posted by Scifinator and a large supply of Steve's in their team, lol!!!! I think even the non 'Steve's' now go by the nick name Steve!!!
	5 years ago	Post 129 • IP flag post

Masculinity takes a holiday. 37.37K	37.37K EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user	plus 1 plus 1 plus 1 6
	Quote: Originally Posted by Jabberwookie I’ve heard that CBCS books don’t get the same value as CGC, but I’m not seeing it as much lately. I wouldn't be comfortable testing the CBCS market in an auction, but I think you can get fairly similar prices in Buy it Now listings.
	5 years ago	Post 130 • IP flag post

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