DC dumping Diamond12084
 I don't believe this....and I know you don't care that I don't believe this.
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GAC private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Studios share a huge amount of the box office with the theater companies....I read domestically its 30%+ and foreign can be over 50%. If these movie companies bypass the theatres and go straight to their streaming service they keep it all. It's all about subscribers...if theres enough subscribers theres enough money to recoup $300 million on big budget films. |
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| Post 51 • IP flag post | ||
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CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater But was coin collecting every really a youth-oriented activity? It seems like we're assuming the hobby has to be started young, and I'm not sure that's so. Plenty of people start a collecting bobby of some kind later in life. When their kids become teenagers/leave the house. When they retire. When they suddenly have more time. I know several comic collectors that began after 50. And another who started when he was 75. All anecdotal, of course, but offered as examples. Whether it's coins, comics, stamps or creepy ceramic figurines, collecting hobbies carry with them demands in time and money. The young seldom have both in abundance. Perhaps the demographics don't entirely represent a collecting population that's aging towards the death of all these various hobbies, but also represent people with more time and accumulated wealth taking up the hobby. |
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| Post 52 • IP flag post | ||
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jokioo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| CBCS post Wanted to comment briefly on this thread as a 19 year-old who began collecting at 16, and hopefully restore some faith in the longevity of the hobby. I was never a big comic book reader until high school, before which I read comics for about a year, falling in love with Batman and his rogues gallery. I checked omnibuses out from my school library in 6th grade, but beyond that, I was not pulling up to my LCS to purchase new issues. Despite having read comics for a year, what got me into the hobby were the Batman: Arkham games. I was reintroduced to the rogues gallery, feeling a sense of restored nostalgia for the characters. I emphasize that it was the characters that sucked me back in- not necessarily a nostalgia for reading comics. After that I began to romanticize the thought of owning first appearances and key issues that pertained to my favorite characters, and that’s when I began collecting. I’m a very boring collector in that I go after the good stuff: almost exclusively key issues and golden age DC. I’m not chasing runs or anything, which I know a lot of older collectors view as the epitome of the hobby, but I am still very involved, and have sent several books for grading. Nowadays I read more comics, but I wanted to write this to make a point about comic collecting. For a lot of collectors my age, characters have come to us through different means; this is a testament to their versatility. Ultimately, a superhero is a pop culture phenomenon that can be adapted to fit the mold of the times, as the MCU has in cinema, as Batman has in the gaming industry. They are vessels, and I genuinely feel that even when the movies fall out of fashion as they inevitably will, society will find some new way to reintroduce these beloved characters somewhere else. This is all very subjective and opinionated, but I was intrigued by this thread and thought I’d add my two cents given my age. |
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| Post 53 • IP flag post | ||
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CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jokioo That's awesome. I started collecting at 16 as well. Had about a 15-year gap in there, but came back to the hobby in my early 40s. Now 51 and still loving it. Glad to have you here and in the hobby! |
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| Post 54 • IP flag post | ||
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RRO private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I think that any industry or collecting area should only do positive things to further is health. DC's actions are negative within its own sustainability. I called on DC (and Marvel) in the 90's to offer cheaper, simpler, less-glossy product for not only kids but also casual readers--suggesting 99 cent, 16 page newsprint new and/or reprint comics with ads--along with what the customer wanted in terms of characters and themes as an alternative and a way to draw in those fringe readers. I was given only platitudes and in the case of Bob Wayne: distain. Yeah, sometimes I wonder. |
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| Post 55 • IP flag post | ||
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CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @RRO Ah, Bob Wayne. One of my best friends was managing one of his Fantastic Worlds stores here in Texas when he took off basically overnight for DC and left his employees twisting in the wind. They got the news one morning after he was already gone. They stripped the place and went home. | ||
| Post 56 • IP flag post | ||
 -Our Odin-Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jokioo thank you for sharing that!!! It does give me hope for the future of comic books!!! | ||
| Post 57 • IP flag post | ||
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jokioo Welcome aboard. | ||
| Post 58 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CatCovers I agree and think any hobby is passed on. My grandfather got me collecting coins and stamps when I was about 8. I stopped collecting stamps in my 20's. Also, I only collect older US coins for their silver content now. As I move further into the back 9 holes in life, I find my interest in comics to be fading. I don't have a connection to modern books. I find the art within them to be less than appealing and the stories less than interesting. I do buy comic art on a regular basis. 90% or more of the art I purchase is from the early 2000's or older. I did buy a page from the Old Guard not to long ago. However, that was a rarity. I didn't want to post this in my response to Dr Watson about why kids don't read comics. I didn't want to offend anyone but it is interesting and reflects what I to have experienced in some comic stores I have visited. Several of the woman that my son has play dates with stated that they don't let their kids go into comic stores. (I found that out when I brought up that I collect comic art and older comics. They looked at me with surprise in their eyes). Apparently, they visited comic stores in the past and formed a negative impression of the hobby based upon the smells within the stores. I didn't ask if that was from the paper deteriorating, the people inside, lack of cleanliness, or something else. |
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| Post 59 • IP flag post | ||
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Wraith private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I still believe the young kids experiencing these characters for the first time via mcu will be in the collectible comic market in 20 to 30 years time . There are still plenty of cartoon series as well to hook that generation. My kid is only 3 and knew all the characters before i even shown him a comic. I just an concerned the lower end of market may drop away and new books with it .. we here all know how fun it is to sit next to a stack of comics with your friends or family and just enjoy them for what they are .. It would be a shame if comic books just becomes things we store sealed in plastic |
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| Post 60 • IP flag post | ||
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BrianGreensnips private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Kids would rather spend their money on video games. These books have become so expensive too. | ||
| Post 61 • IP flag post | ||
 If I could, I would. I swear.
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DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I used to spend my money on both. | ||
| Post 62 • IP flag post | ||
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-Our Odin- Rest in Peace |
Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user | |
| I don't believe that a $4 or $5 price tag is going to matter too much to a kid with a $200 phone. "Expensive" is a relative term. | ||
| Post 63 • IP flag post | ||
 I live in RI and Rhode Islanders eat chili with beans.
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esaravo private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Or $200-300 on a pair of sneakers, $7 on a Starbucks latte-something (everyday), and/or $20+ a week or so on vaping supplies. It's not the money, it's just not a "thing" on most teenagers or young adults need/want/have to have list. I have been teaching at a public high school for 16 years. There have been maybe 5 or 6 students in that time span that had any interest in comics at all. @jokioo - You sir, give me some hope for the future. Welcome to the forums. And I have to ask, if you look at all your friends your age, and all the other people they know, what percentage would you estimate would buy even a handful of comics a year? |
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| Post 64 • IP flag post | ||
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by BrianGreensnips We have 5 of the Arcade1Up machines. My son has taken to Galaga and to The Empire Strikes Back games like a fish to water. When you don't have to pump quarter after quarter into them your skill level jumps by leaps and bounds. I could never finish Final Fight as a youngster. That is no longer true. I hold the high score on our machine. We are looking forward Arcade1Up bringing their pinball machines to market later this year. We plan on adding them to the arcade we've built. I can only hope they will come out with a Donkey Kong machine at some point. |
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| Post 65 • IP flag post | ||
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dpiercy Out of sight. Out of mind. Just look at the price of Silver and Gold Age books that have continuing history and those that don’t. Things go full digital then there’s a visibility issue. |
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| Post 66 • IP flag post | ||
 Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
| One thing I learned during the lock down is that in modern society it's hard, even for a comic reader, to give that much attention span to reading comics. There are so many distractions and other sources of mental stimulus. I sit down with a comic book, 500 viewing options on the TV in front of me, infinite websites on the computer to my left, and then the cell phone on my right. I'm really starting to question, given all the entertaiment options and stimulus around them, how many kids are really going to get their superhero fix through printed comic books, even if they were free. | ||
| Post 67 • IP flag post | ||
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Oxbladder private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by Jesse_O Exactly. It’s more about competing interests. |
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| Post 68 • IP flag post | ||
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RRO private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CatCovers This is the same Bob Wayne that joined me in scouring floor placed quarter boxes at north Dallas area mini-cons in the late 70's. |
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| Post 69 • IP flag post | ||
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jokioo private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @esaravo I couldn't give you a percentage, and unfortunately I don't think that a percentage would seem at all auspicious to collectors. There aren't that many of us. I definitely have a few friends that enjoy them, and those who do mostly read through storylines in TPB form. I have done my best to introduce them to some cool books (I just turned a first time comic reader into an enthusiatic Superman: Red Son fan!). Paying $5 per book, as people are suggesting, is quite a high cost, even in comparison to video games and electronics. And an even more potent inhibitor, as people have previously suggested, is the lack of availability. But TPBs are actually pretty affordable, and can be purchased very easily online; running at about the cost of a book, I believe that people my age definitely have less trouble paying that price. But as I mentioned before, if I were to look only at comic book readership, I'd be very pessimistic about the future of the hobby beyond the next 20 years or so. Heck, I was not a comic book reader for a long time either. For reference, I think the teenage audience that comic books appeal to is the same audience that have the patience and attention span to sit down and enjoy a book. The level of adaptation into different forms of media is what impresses me. My sixth grade sister is obsessed with the Teen Titans because of the Teen Titans Go! cartoon, and a second grader that I've been tutoring is in love with superhero LEGOs. It's small things like these that keep the appeal of superheroes alive. At the end of the day, key issues are relics of people's favorite characters, and unlike autographs, sports cards, stamps or coins, comic books to anyone– a reader or not– do have some inherent aesthetic value. I had a 'Tec 400 displayed in my dorm room last year that everyone got a kick out of, and none of them knew who Man-Bat was. The same couldn't be said for the sports cards I used to collect, whose value is carried entirely by the names and legacy of transitory American icons. In summary, I don't think the characters are going to die off. I think they will morph into the consumer landscape of the future, but they'll never disappear. And as long as that character recognition still exists, I think people will find their original forms fascinating and collectable. |
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| Post 70 • IP flag post | ||
 Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Geez. This topic has turned into a gold mine of very interesting, intelligent and thought provoking comments! Thanks to all!! @infinityG Agree that Blue Chip books are safe, regardless of the rest of the market. But I believe it will be a lot more than just the huge books. So I don't think it's just FF 1. It's FF 4 and 5 and 45 and 48-50 and 52 and so on. Key's are pretty safe - not just blue chip major keys. Lesser books IDK. If few kids read comics today will they grow up and want a run of FF? Seems hard to imagine. But we are a good generation away from getting a sense of the answer to the question @DrWatson Brief and to the point. Comics are way too expensive and not sold anywhere but specialty stores (LCS). This is it. THE PROBLEM. Others suggest the need for comics to be in grocery and drug stores. The problem becomes the direct market approach. CVS isn't carrying comic books if they have to order upfront and keep/pay for unsold copies. The distribution model that saved comic publishers in the 1980's now prevents them from growing the base. Comic book publishers don't WANT TO print books with a $1.99 cover price - the price point parents might let a kid add a few comics to the cart. And publishers most certainly don't want to be stuck with unsold copies when they have gotten used to pushing that problem off on retailers. So it rather looks like the three major publishers will suck as much $$ as they can from the collector market for as long as they can. Then give up and go digital, with printed trades where they think it makes financial sense. @jokioo That is awesome. My own experience at Local Comic Shops is sadly there are not a lot like you. There are not many teenagers buying new comics at the LCS around here. And virtually no kids buying new comics. I started reading comics when I was 9 years old. Back to DrWatson's comment I started reading comics in 1963 because they were a bunch on spinner racks in drug and grocery stores. And they were 12 cents! Adjusting for inflation (about 750%), 12 cents in 1963 is worth about a dollar today. I mean IDK - I'm guilty of speculating. But if comics today cost $1.25 I bet they could sell a lot more of them to a lot more people. |
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| Post 71 • IP flag post | ||
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan @IronMan For some reason inflation rates just don't seem to apply to some discretionary items like entertainment. I assume the top comic writers and artists in 1963 made less than $10K annually, so that would max today's rock-star artists at $75K. Top professional athletes in 1963 couldn't earn enough in their entire career to set them up for retirement. Today a top athlete can earn in a single season enough money to retire 10 people. I dunno exactly why this phenomenon is, but I suspect it has something to do with leaving the gold standard in the 60's and no longer making money out of precious metals. Just seems to be a lot more discretionary income out there driving up the prices of things people demand most. That 12 cent comic in 1963 was sold on a drug store spinner rack and often paid for with a solid silver quarter. Drawn and written by poorly paid talent doing it mostly for passion. Today it's sold in a stand-alone specialty comic shop, carefully packaged and shipped to avoid the most minor damage, paid for with paper money and created by rock-star talent making incomes far above the national average. |
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| Post 72 • IP flag post | ||
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CatCovers private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @EbaySeller Don't mean to derail, but it's not just entertainment figures. In the '60s, a corporate CEO's salary was about 20 times that of the guy sorting letters in the mail room. Now, a CEO may make 20 times the mail guy's annual salary in a couple of days. As for comics themselves, well, I don't have any hard facts about who makes what, but I would suspect there aren't many creators getting rich. Except for Kirkman, of course.  |
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| Post 73 • IP flag post | ||
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infinityG private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @jokioo You are a unicorn and a refreshing insight for your generation. It certainly gives me some hope but much of what you say reaffirms my opinion on the declination of the periodic comic book. Not the characters. @IronMan that's exactly it. The lesser knowns no one will care about. Are new collectors going to care who Knull is or will Punchline have any staying power considering these are characters of a new generation? Aside from Wolverine and Captain America, are the collectors of tomorrow going to care about the rest of the X-Men or the Avengers? I kind of see it happening like the art collectors market. All the most important paintings and artists are pretty much bought and sold between wealthy people. All the major blue chip keys and moments in comic history will be bought and sold between the wealthiest dealers and the 2nd and 3rd appearances will be left for the remaining collectors who have been in it for decades and buy for nostalgia. Also disclaimer, this isn't about money/investments for me but the disappearing of an American institution and past time. I just love comic books. What DC did was jus plain crappy. There could have been a better way. |
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dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| Punchline looked to be really promising, really cool character design, but no backstory other than being psychotic, which is a disappointing, honestly. | ||
| Post 75 • IP flag post | ||
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Ima gonna steal this and look for some occasion to use it!
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IronMan private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by EbaySeller Interesting observation about discretionary items and inflation. Stuff to chew on. I can think of a number of discretionary items that have come down in price relative to inflation - most electronics for instance. But still worth thinking about. But as far as income of comic creators go. Knowing one such personally, I'm pretty sure that the great majority of creators just make a living. Some barely, some fairly and some comfortably. It is a relatively small number that have joined the ranks of the wealthy from creating comic books. A lot of the "making a living" crowd are having a bit of a hard time currently. Because appearances at comic book shows where they sell sketches and their books and such is a large part of their income. Besides rates of inflation, other things point to the possibility of substantially lower prices. Free Comic Book Day books cost retailers around 35 cents I believe. The idea behind FCBD is everyone in the pipeline is working at cost (except the LCS that has to buy the book) So if the actual physical cost of a comic book printed as inexpensively as possible is 30-35 cents - at 4x the price the comic book could be $1.25-$1.50. At 6x the price you could still sneak in under $2. It looks like comic book Publishers would prefer to sell to a collector audience at $4 each. They are not much interested in competing for entertainment focused readers. At least not with monthlies. The publishers probably have good reasons. Trying to sell at 1/2 the current price in what would now be a new distribution channel and take returns probably sounds pretty daunting. A good way to go broke. So I don't have the answers - but the problems seem obvious. For comic books to break back out to previous sales numbers, they have to compete as an entertainment medium. Movies and the big streaming services offer a LOT of bang for the buck when it comes to entertainment value. Comic books aren't offering much bang for the buck as far as entertainment value goes. Don't get me wrong, many titles are entertaining. For 10-15 minutes. What comics offert is the possibility of being collectible. Worth more than you paid. That "deal" seems to be appealing to a slowly shrinking audience. |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by IronMan Reminds me of a discussion I had once. A friend got quotes for some cement work. The low bid was $4,000 and the high bid for the same job was $14,000. As we talked we realized that the high bidder might not be as insane as we first thought. Assuming the cost of fulfilling the job was $3,000, the lower bidder had to obtain and successfully fulfill 11 jobs in order to make the same profit that the high bidder would make on 1 job. For the low bidder to make a living things have to go well for him every day, for the high bidder to make a living things have to go his way just once or twice a month, lol. |
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Masculinity takes a holiday.
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EbayMafia private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by CatCovers @CatCovers For growing company's it's probably better to use "percentage of profit" for comparison purposes. As in what percentage of profit goes to senior management and what percentage goes to entry level employees, and how does that change over time. As a corporation grows they will have a larger and larger pool of entry-level employees, but they will still have only 1 CEO. If we can show that a growing percentage of profits is going to senior executive compensation, which I believe is the case, then its a solid and honest argument. If we just use straight dollar amounts, the other side could easily counter with this also true but misleading statement: "In 1963 the taxes a fortune 500 company paid was equal to XXX times the mail room assistants salary. Today those corporations may pay taxes equal to 2000 times the mail guy's salary in a couple of days." |
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Towmater private msg quote post Address this user | |
Quote:Originally Posted by dpiercy So, she has the same back story that the joker had from 1940 until 1951? |
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| Post 79 • IP flag post | ||
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dpiercy private msg quote post Address this user | |
| @Towmater Lol. I think the character has promise now after reading the origin. They made here a college student is my only reservation. | ||
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