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Comics Bronze AgeComics Modern AgeComics Restoration and ConservationGrading Help NeededQuestions

ASM 300 ink running?11994

Collector Madman private msg quote post Address this user
hello all, check this out. Have anyone seen this happen before? Is it caused by humidity? Can this book be saved or is it just a low grade copy?






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Collector Masochism private msg quote post Address this user
Welcome to mildew
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Collector Madman private msg quote post Address this user
🤣 that's what I thought
Post 3 IP   flag post
Collector Zordar private msg quote post Address this user
Any idea what this does to the grade? The book looks nice otherwise. I ask because my copy looks about the same after being rescued from a garage.
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Collector Elvinv private msg quote post Address this user
With a good press it’ll still get a 8.5-9.0
Post 5 IP   flag post
Collector Madman private msg quote post Address this user
8.5-9? Seriously?
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Collector Masochism private msg quote post Address this user
@Madman that sounds low for what I am seeing
Post 7 IP   flag post
Collector Madman private msg quote post Address this user
Wow! I honestly thought it would be less. More like 7-8. Thanks
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Collector cyrano0521 private msg quote post Address this user
Mildew is a killer; full point or two, depending on thoroughness of infestation.
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
:heartverstreet doesn't even mention mildew until you get down to 0.5 (poor) condition. I don't believe any grading company will go higher than that on any book with any amount of mildew. And the kicker is anything you do to remove it would be considered restoration.


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Collector Elvinv private msg quote post Address this user
Where is the mildew?
Post 11 IP   flag post
Collector Elvinv private msg quote post Address this user
It looks like ink bleed on the first page
Post 12 IP   flag post
Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Without seeing it in person, I don't even care to guess what it is. I'm just saying that mildew puts your book in the poor category.
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Collector Madman private msg quote post Address this user
Agreed, thankfully it is not my book. But feel sorry that it got to that point.
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Collector chester15 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Without seeing it in person, I don't even care to guess what it is. I'm just saying that mildew puts your book in the poor category.


I believe that is jumping to a conclusion. You have copied a general description of things that could be PRESENT on a Poor copy of a comic. There is nothing to suggest that any ONE detractor would force the comic into that grade.

Those characteristics, usually found on a Poor copy, are indicators of grade, and only if piled together, the sum of the defects theory. A comic could have any of those characteristics, and pulled down in grade, but not sent to the cellar. An otherwise 9.8 copy might have a single "heavy cover abrasion", but that wouldn't put it in the Poor category.

We would really need an actual grader's opinion, or maybe someone has had a similar situation where the grading notes specified it as mildew, or whatever they determined it to be. From that, it's possible that it could be determined how much emphasis was put on the defect.
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COLLECTOR CFP_Comics private msg quote post Address this user
Does it smell like mildew?
Post 16 IP   flag post
Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
It looks more like ink transfer to me. The book would have needed to have been exposed to moisture or humidity to mildew and it doesn't look water damaged.
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by chester15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse_O
Without seeing it in person, I don't even care to guess what it is. I'm just saying that mildew puts your book in the poor category.


I believe that is jumping to a conclusion. You have copied a general description of things that could be PRESENT on a Poor copy of a comic. There is nothing to suggest that any ONE detractor would force the comic into that grade.

Those characteristics, usually found on a Poor copy, are indicators of grade, and only if piled together, the sum of the defects theory. A comic could have any of those characteristics, and pulled down in grade, but not sent to the cellar. An otherwise 9.8 copy might have a single "heavy cover abrasion", but that wouldn't put it in the Poor category.

We would really need an actual grader's opinion, or maybe someone has had a similar situation where the grading notes specified it as mildew, or whatever they determined it to be. From that, it's possible that it could be determined how much emphasis was put on the defect.


I just wanted to say that I was not "jumping to a conclusion." That was the way I was taught to grade a book back in the 80's. You start off by looking at the book and find the biggest defect. You find that defect on the guide and that is the HIGHEST grade possible. Then you look at everything else and decide if the total of defects would bring it lower or not.

For example, a perfect book has a loose centerfold, it cannot be higher than a fine (6.0). A 1/2 inch spine split cannot grade higher than a 5.0. So on and so forth. Brittle pages cannot grade higher than a 1.5.

Maybe grading practices have changed, but I have never heard of it being done any other way.
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Collector chester15 private msg quote post Address this user
I'm sure there are Poor books with mildew stains. I'm sure there are Good books with mildew stains. I'm sure there are VG books with mildew stains, and maybe as high as Fine. It's a detracting characteristic. But you can't 86 it for that one factor.

In my example, an otherwise 9.8 with a "heavy cover abrasion", might lose a few grades, like go to a Fine+. That defect is mentioned in Poor, but being the only defect, not a deal breaker. Or it could be graded on an even playing field with other comics that have many defects that still make those a Fine+, but no major wear or condition factor, the sum of the many small defects piling on. Even a tear does not force a comic into Poor condition, and cover tears are less palatable than mildew stains on interior pages. Mildew stains are certainly less objectionable than "extreme fading rendering the cover almost indiscernible."

The practice of finding the grade that includes the defect works in some cases - usually when the grade specifically states that a defect CANNOT exceed a certain criteria in that grade. Such as a crease CANNOT be over X length, a tear cannot exceed X length. The grading guide is saying these specific defects keep a book OUT of that grade, no business being included. Mostly the high grades where minute defects are what makes or breaks a high grade.

In the mid to lower grades, there is more latitude. Books are read, handled, folded, torn, used as a clipboard, etc. You have to assess what ills have been visited upon that book, and also what is nice about it. So unless a grade specifically says "this defect cannot exist in this grade", the field is open.
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
@chester15 so what's your opinion on cat urine? Most guides mention "acidic odor" at 1.5. Can a book with cat urine grade higher than that? I say no.
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Collector chester15 private msg quote post Address this user
"Acidic odor" is usually in reference to the paper breaking down from the sulfur content. That is a sign that decomposition is already taking place, and will probably continue. The comic at today's grade might not be at that grade very long with acid breakdown going on, so that is why acidic odor is called out. Your comic could completely disintegrate over time, and you're left with bupkis.

Cat urine, or any unusual characteristic like that (any objectionable odor, smoke damage, water stains, etc. and even fungus and the aforementioned mildew), have to be assessed on a case by case basis. The severity, intensity, location, all have to be considered. There is no automatic grade. It won't be high, that's for sure. Here's where I am supposed to say that "grading is subjective", but reasonable people can arrive at a consensus, at least a ballpark grade, depending on the comic being graded, each one unique.

My main point is that few things shoot a book into a specific grade slot to the exclusion of all others. There are some general rules about a book not exceeding a certain grade due to some agreed-upon limitation where everyone nods their head and says, "yeah, THAT sure ain't going to hit VF". Like creases, folds, tears being of certain size and number within a grade. Too many, too long, and you're pushed out.

In the mid to low grades, there will be a variety of defects that are objectionable - stuck pages, fold-overs, loose pages, rusty staples, water rings from using the comic as a coaster, you name it. All have to be weighed to arrive at a grade. And each person assessing, whether they be a grader, dealer, or collector, will have their "thing" that they just can't tolerate. Some might be allergic to cigarette smoke or pet dander. Some won't care at all, if the cover is nice. Some will go berserk if the wrap is an eighth of an inch off. I think the less a defect shows, like something interior, the less weight it gets. We hate to "judge a book by its cover", but that's primarily what we do, all the time.
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Moderator Jesse_O private msg quote post Address this user
Well, I've only ever graded comics for myself. I was taught to be more strict than that. I seriously doubt that I will change the way I do it. It is good to know that others are not as strict as I am.
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Collector DrWatson private msg quote post Address this user
Cat Piss Comics, now there's a name for a business.
Post 23 IP   flag post
Collector chester15 private msg quote post Address this user
@Jesse_O You should always do what feels right for you, I think. We each can have our own set of standards - it's a free country. The downside is when we try to interact with others who have ideas that are far apart from our own, regarding grading, that is. Maybe my 4.0 is your 1.5. That's ok. It only matters when currency is involved. And even then, if we were to agree on price for a 4.0/1.5 comic, what difference does it make?

That is why we have CBCS and CGC, to offer their input. They were born from the need that the community had to arrive at common ground. A buyer may grade conservatively, because it is in his interest to do so. A seller, the opposite.

A lot of people say mcs grades stricter than either grading company, so does that make them wrong? It's all about value. Are you happy with the item received, in relation to the funds invested.
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Collector GAC private msg quote post Address this user
The idea of grading too loose or too strict are equally bad. There are grading standards set by Overstreet, CBCS and CGC. Presumably these 3 standards are more similar than different and hopefully almost exact. These standards are generally agreed upon by the hobbyists. We should all try to adhere and conform to these standards and not grade looser or stricter. We should all try to apply the highest grade possible while still being correct with the grade.
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Collector chester15 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAC
The idea of grading too loose or too strict are equally bad. There are grading standards set by Overstreet, CBCS and CGC. Presumably these 3 standards are more similar than different and hopefully almost exact. These standards are generally agreed upon by the hobbyists. We should all try to adhere and conform to these standards and not grade looser or stricter. We should all try to apply the highest grade possible while still being correct with the grade.


Agreed. In general, that is the best path.

The problems occur when you have normally very nice books with characteristics usually belonging to low grade books. How far do you push the nice book down?
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Collector chester15 private msg quote post Address this user
Come to think of it, wouldn't you EXPECT to see black blotches? Venom is all OVER that book!
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