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Snyder "Justice League" to be Released in 202111971

Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
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Originally Posted by 00slim
I’m saying he should have been better written and developed throughout the movie. Snyder had plans for him to be more menacing in other films? Cool.

It doesn’t change the fact that he brings down the movie in every scene he’s in.

There’s really no point in discussing it further. I have too many issues with the movie. I’m glad you found joy in it.

The people who have problems with Lex's origin are likely the same as those who don't like Man of Steel. You may or may not be one of those viewers, but, the criticism is certainly identical.

Worlds of DC wasn't intended to be 'more of the same' stuff.

Superman's origin was intended to ground him in humanity, so the ideal that everyone 'should' strive towards would have compelling elements. "People hate what they don't understand."

Lex is the same. Do you empathize with a billionaire who blindly hates a powerful alien-god (like classic Luthor)? What about a guy who struggles with the idea of an all-powerful god who did nothing to help/save him? Motivations matter. He struggles with his own disturbed disillusioned philosophies. He's obviously no Thanos, and we're naturally inclined to divert from his mentality, but intended on making him relatable on some levels.

This all falls on deaf ears if you don't care, of course.



His portrayal. The way he acted, was the problem, not his motivations.

And Man of Steel had a whole different set of issues. Mostly, a fight scene at the end that felt like a full half hour. And Superman being raised to be afraid.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
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Originally Posted by 00slim
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Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
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Originally Posted by Wraith
Disagree.. admittedly the movie was a bit silly and badly written before hitting that scene .. but that one scene totally obliterated any chance of redemption.

Was completely moronic. I literally laughed out loud and switched it off and came back a few weeks later to finish where I left off. But while finishing think got distracted with other more interesting things , like cleaning the cat litter

Not really. They set it up well. Apparently you don't understand it.

It's not perfect, but, it does make sense.


Let’s not degrade the discussion to personal insults. He was calling out the movie, not you as a person.

Lmfao how is that an "insult"...?
When someone does not agree with a given viewpoint, implying they "don't understand it" is not only insulting, it is condescending.....I agree with Slim
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town

When someone does not agree with a given viewpoint, implying they "don't understand it" is not only insulting, it is condescending.....I agree with Slim

There are no implications. S/he obviously does not understand it.

If you watch a movie about calculating a Goldilocks Zone, and you call the theory of hydrogen fusion "moronic", then you don't understand thermonuclear astrophysics.

It's not an insult. Don't cry wolf.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by 00slim
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
I’m saying he should have been better written and developed throughout the movie. Snyder had plans for him to be more menacing in other films? Cool.

It doesn’t change the fact that he brings down the movie in every scene he’s in.

There’s really no point in discussing it further. I have too many issues with the movie. I’m glad you found joy in it.

The people who have problems with Lex's origin are likely the same as those who don't like Man of Steel. You may or may not be one of those viewers, but, the criticism is certainly identical.

Worlds of DC wasn't intended to be 'more of the same' stuff.

Superman's origin was intended to ground him in humanity, so the ideal that everyone 'should' strive towards would have compelling elements. "People hate what they don't understand."

Lex is the same. Do you empathize with a billionaire who blindly hates a powerful alien-god (like classic Luthor)? What about a guy who struggles with the idea of an all-powerful god who did nothing to help/save him? Motivations matter. He struggles with his own disturbed disillusioned philosophies. He's obviously no Thanos, and we're naturally inclined to divert from his mentality, but intended on making him relatable on some levels.

This all falls on deaf ears if you don't care, of course.



His portrayal. The way he acted, was the problem, not his motivations.

And Man of Steel had a whole different set of issues. Mostly, a fight scene at the end that felt like a full half hour. And Superman being raised to be afraid.

That's fine.
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Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town

When someone does not agree with a given viewpoint, implying they "don't understand it" is not only insulting, it is condescending.....I agree with Slim

There are no implications. S/he obviously does not understand it.

If you watch a movie about calculating a Goldilocks Zone, and you call the theory of hydrogen fusion "moronic", then you don't understand thermonuclear astrophysics.

It's not an insult. Don't cry wolf.


We’re talking about a movie that is quite simple & straightforward. Nothing as complicated as hydrogen fusion.

It was quite insulting.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town

When someone does not agree with a given viewpoint, implying they "don't understand it" is not only insulting, it is condescending.....I agree with Slim

There are no implications. S/he obviously does not understand it.

If you watch a movie about calculating a Goldilocks Zone, and you call the theory of hydrogen fusion "moronic", then you don't understand thermonuclear astrophysics.

It's not an insult. Don't cry wolf.


We’re talking about a movie that is quite simple & straightforward. Nothing as complicated as hydrogen fusion.

It was quite insulting.

It isn't, though. Worlds of DC is more complex than popcorn flicks of (most) the MCU. If you want to understand it/them, you usually have to turn your brain on.

If you're insulted by something, then that's on you. If you're fat, and someone calls you "fat", and you're insulted? You're responsible for accepting or changing the truth. The material is there for anyone to dissect how the scene is not "moronic".

I'm ignorant of chemistry. If I ask my friend - who is a chemist - a question, and he says, "you don't understand the answer"? I'm not offended because he is correct. Don't traverse the internet if you are sensitive.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
I wonder if these same individuals demonize Civil War for "Bucky" triggering Captain America...

Or Stark (a typically logical character) going nuts because a brainwashed Winter Soldier killed his mom...

Just food for thought.
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Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
They attempted to make these movies more character driven, sure. But they are not complex.

Nowhere near the complexity of chemistry. To imply that anyone couldn’t watch the movies once and get the nuances is condescending.

No one is saying they felt hurt by what you said. It’s just best that we keep criticisms aimed at the movie, not the member.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I think you have a really distorted and twisted concept of how insults work honestly....if you call someone fat, and it offends them, that's insulting period. It isn't your place nor right to make verbal judgements about others weight or if it is beyond what is healthy...honestly calling someone fat even if they are is crude, insensitive and thoughtless.
If you are insulted by something does not rely on your own perceptions, if something is insulting. It is as much intent, context and method as it is anything else.
Insulting members here won't serve you well …
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COLLECTOR Towmater private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town

When someone does not agree with a given viewpoint, implying they "don't understand it" is not only insulting, it is condescending.....I agree with Slim

There are no implications. S/he obviously does not understand it.

If you watch a movie about calculating a Goldilocks Zone, and you call the theory of hydrogen fusion "moronic", then you don't understand thermonuclear astrophysics.

It's not an insult. Don't cry wolf.


We’re talking about a movie that is quite simple & straightforward. Nothing as complicated as hydrogen fusion.

It was quite insulting.


Let's forget about the fact that a movie that had the 2 biggest heroes in the DC universe as the main stars in it, and stole material from Miller's Dark Kight Returns couldn't get over the billion dollar box office mark. We all forgot to switch on our thinking caps and missed how good it was...



Psst, the Dark Knight which came out 8 years before made more money than Batman vs Superman Dawn of Justice. Why? Because it was a good movie.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
I think you have a really distorted and twisted concept of how insults work honestly....if you call someone fat, and it offends them, that's insulting period. It isn't your place nor right to make verbal judgements about others weight or if it is beyond what is healthy...honestly calling someone fat even if they are is crude, insensitive and thoughtless.
If you are insulted by something does not rely on your own perceptions, if something is insulting. It is as much intent, context and method as it is anything else.
Insulting members here won't serve you well …

That's ironic. You are flat-out incorrect.

Are you insulted by being incorrect?

Is calling something "moronic" an insult? Think before you post.

None of these tangential fallacies deny the fact that the scene is misunderstood by those who choose not to think about it.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00slim
They attempted to make these movies more character driven, sure. But they are not complex.

Nowhere near the complexity of chemistry. To imply that anyone couldn’t watch the movies once and get the nuances is condescending.

No one is saying they felt hurt by what you said. It’s just best that we keep criticisms aimed at the movie, not the member.

Nope. It's a 3-hour movie about a clash of ideologies. Literally no one can watch it once and fully understand it. The member obviously doesn't understand the scene. That's not an insult.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Someone forgot that studio interference led to an inferior film being released as the Theatrical Cut (leading to a sub-billion dollar box office result).

This is a Snyder Cut thread. It was campaigned for a reason. It's being completed for a reason.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
yes, indeed, think before you post. Name calling, insulting, belitting others...should prove an intesting afternoon.

Oh and by the way....attempting to argue no one can watch a movie and fully understand it is baseless.Suggesting or implying someone is incapable of understanding something is a demeaning judgment on your own part.
Post 64 IP   flag post
Collector 00slim private msg quote post Address this user
If they just made ‘Dark Knight Returns’, it could have been great.

What we got was a shallow attempt to make an operatic, penultimate melodrama.
Post 65 IP   flag post
Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
yes, indeed, think before you post. Name calling, insulting, belitting others...should prove an intesting afternoon.

Oh and by the way....attempting to argue no one can watch a movie and fully understand it is baseless.Suggesting or implying someone is incapable of understanding something is a demeaning judgment on your own part.

Crying wolf isn't going to work.

Remember that "think before you post"? Yeah, this is what I said:

"Literally no one can watch it ONCE and fully understand it."

Try again. Or don't. I suggest the latter.
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Collector xkonk private msg quote post Address this user
It makes me sad every time the forum spends pages realizing people have subjective tastes.

As far as it goes, I don't mind the Martha scene. I think it is objectively a flaw in the movie though because it's internally inconsistent. Earlier on when Batman is looking for kryptonite he says, "Jesus, Alfred, count the dead. Thousands of people. What's next: millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a 1% chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty. And we have to destroy him."

So then he's in the moment of doing just that and realizes that Superman has very human feelings and entanglements. On the one hand this humanizes Superman and it kind of feels like it's right for Batman to relate to him and change his mind, but on the other hand it shouldn't change his math on taking out Superman at all. The scene is jarring because of that inconsistency (and probably the execution in general) but I also kind of see what they were going for.
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Collector Wraith private msg quote post Address this user
I'm not insulted .. also wad not confused with what the movie was trying to achieve - was not exactly subtle. Just i thought the way it it was done was unconvincing, contrived and not the slightest bit entertaining ..

To each their own but bvs , in my opinion, is compete trash ...
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Wraith
I'm not insulted .. also wad not confused with what the movie was trying to achieve - was not exactly subtle. Just i thought the way it it was done was unconvincing, contrived and not the slightest bit entertaining ..

To each their own but bvs , in my opinion, is compete trash ...

Good, and that's a fair opinion.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
So now its a fair opinion vs before when he was told he apparently did not understand it....hmmm
Post 70 IP   flag post
Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkonk
It makes me sad every time the forum spends pages realizing people have subjective tastes.

As far as it goes, I don't mind the Martha scene. I think it is objectively a flaw in the movie though because it's internally inconsistent. Earlier on when Batman is looking for kryptonite he says, "Jesus, Alfred, count the dead. Thousands of people. What's next: millions? He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a 1% chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty. And we have to destroy him."

So then he's in the moment of doing just that and realizes that Superman has very human feelings and entanglements. On the one hand this humanizes Superman and it kind of feels like it's right for Batman to relate to him and change his mind, but on the other hand it shouldn't change his math on taking out Superman at all. The scene is jarring because of that inconsistency (and probably the execution in general) but I also kind of see what they were going for.

Agree on all accounts.

By no means is the Martha scene perfect. To add to your analysis, though, the 1% comment falls in line with the perception that "if Superman is all-powerful". Lex finds out that Superman is all-good (because he is not all-powerful). Superman basically begging Batman to save his mom if he's going to kill him kinda jars Batman with the same knowledge. He's not all-powerful, and with his potential last breath, all he cares about is his mom.

It's not perfect. I wouldn't even call it "great". It has meaningful and contextual validation, though. We have to remember that Lex is fueling both of their fires, too. Both parties get manipulated. They both see through the fog at different times.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
So now its a fair opinion vs before when he was told he apparently did not understand it....hmmm

"Moronic" is not the description of something one understands.

Reiterating what s/he said into a manner that makes sense only allows me to validate their opinion (regardless of whether or not I agree with it).

It seems like you're too set in your own ways that you're unable to see reason. That's disappointing, to say the least. Unwavering in the light of new/different information is a weakness - not a strength.
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Collector KatKomics private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Someone forgot that studio interference led to an inferior film being released as the Theatrical Cut (leading to a sub-billion dollar box office result).

This is a Snyder Cut thread. It was campaigned for a reason. It's being completed for a reason.



Seeing as no one has seen the Snyder cut I assume the campaign was because others assume it can't be as bad as what was released. Once the campaign had numbers the one and only reason it is getting released is because the movie executives see $$$..not any kind of fan service...if they cared about that they would make good movies to start with.

Justice League was just made all wrong....the whole DC universe is wrong. By the time we got an Avengers movie either all the characters had had their own stand alone movies or were introduced as characters in the other characters movies - we had built a relationship with them and cared about them. With Justice League we get characters introduced that the general audience doesn't know and therefore can't care about, characters who's powers overlap rather than compliment each other or powers that vary wildly based on what the script demands from the them..."hey...wouldn't XXX look super cool??? - yeah!!! lets do it - even though it is inconsistent with the ability and power levels we've shown in past movies or this very same movie!!!"

I don't know...DC has the odd stand alone movie that isn't bad (ringing endorsement here!)...but even then they seem surprised and don't have follow up movies even in the works let alone ready for a quick follow-up release to build some sort of momentum.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
thanks for the lecture...but perhaps you should apply what you are preaching to yourself you know?
Also the insults are tiring..and were reported already...so knock it off, thanks.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKomics
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCapraAegagrus
Someone forgot that studio interference led to an inferior film being released as the Theatrical Cut (leading to a sub-billion dollar box office result).

This is a Snyder Cut thread. It was campaigned for a reason. It's being completed for a reason.

Seeing as no one has seen the Snyder cut I assume the campaign was because others assume it can't be as bad as what was released. Once the campaign had numbers the one and only reason it is getting released is because the movie executives see $$$..not any kind of fan service...if they cared about that they would make good movies to start with.

Justice League was just made all wrong....the whole DC universe is wrong. By the time we got an Avengers movie either all the characters had had their own stand alone movies or were introduced as characters in the other characters movies - we had built a relationship with them and cared about them. With Justice League we get characters introduced that the general audience doesn't know and therefore can't care about, characters who's powers overlap rather than compliment each other or powers that vary wildly based on what the script demands from the them..."hey...wouldn't XXX look super cool??? - yeah!!! lets do it - even though it is inconsistent with the ability and power levels we've shown in past movies or this very same movie!!!"

I don't know...DC has the odd stand alone movie that isn't bad (ringing endorsement here!)...but even then they seem surprised and don't have follow up movies even in the works let alone ready for a quick follow-up release to build some sort of momentum.

The Snyder Cut is in-demand for a plethora of reasons. A few being:

1. WB studio interference demanding a 2-hour theatrical cut.
2. WB unwavering in moving the release date so that they could cut end-year bonus checks.
3. Using Zack's family suicide as a smoke screen to fire him.
4. History of Snyder Cuts being much better than studio-imposed limits.
5. Knowing that Whedon did not have to appeal to Snyder's authority for any changes, iving him full-control for re-shoots, writing, and visual swaps.
6. All of the confirmed Snyder Cut elements that were removed.

You are correct that $$$$$ talks - which is why those in support of the Snyder Cut must not bootleg it. Otherwise, studios will not even think once about fandom outcry when they F stuff up.

Justice League was meant to have Vulko, Iris West, and Cyborg's family. Even some Uxas stuff. Backstory is part of why it was planned to be a 3.5-hour cut.

I don't agree that Worlds of DC was "built wrong". I don't want every movie universe to copy Marvel. That's boring.
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Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
thanks for the lecture...but perhaps you should apply what you are preaching to yourself you know?
Also the insults are tiring..and were reported already...so knock it off, thanks.

I don't think that the mods will fall for the crying wolf game. Sorry not sorry.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I don't think anyone will see insulting forum members as a game ...sorry not sorry
Post 77 IP   flag post
Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
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Originally Posted by Darkseid_of_town
I don't think anyone will see insulting forum members as a game ...sorry not sorry

Discuss the topic instead of crying wolf, please.

If you're not here to contribute, there are plenty of other threads to get triggered by.
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Collector Darkseid_of_town private msg quote post Address this user
I agree, stop insulting and contribute something of value, thanks
Post 79 IP   flag post
Collector theCapraAegagrus private msg quote post Address this user
Someone get this guy a dictionary for X-Mas. LOL.
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